Join us as we reconnect with Gordon and hear about how starting with one ‘bread and butter’ property can quickly turn into a full five star meal. He shares how he helped one particular client to do so and how he has formed friendships with the people he has worked with, along with his tips on how to start buying below market value, and where to go from there.

Timestamps:
Time | Text
01:58 | Get In Early
04:00 | Stick With Me, Kid
06:03 | Rinse and Repeat
08:24 | Bread and Butter
16:58 | Started From the Bottom, Now We’re Here
21:47 | A Casual 2,000% Return
22:27 | Don’t Just Go Below Market— Go Off Market
27:35 | A Huge Change in a Short Time

Resources and Links:

[00:17:42] My first deposit was $30,000. If you make a mistake when you buy, you're honestly stuck. And when I say mistake, I mean if you pay market value, you're stuck. You are so reliant on a market to deliver growth and if that's really what you're relying on you can't get that to build that portfolio. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with award winning property investor of the year, Sam Gordon. You’ll learn from him why it’s worth buying properties below market value, how he has done so for himself and for his clients, and how COVID has impacted his portfolio plus much much more...

Tyrone Shum: 

To kick off this episode, Gordon describes a case study about one of his clients who has built up a successful portfolio, beginning with buying just one property under market value.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:00:37] He and his partner, they had their own home in Sydney that had a little bit of equity, but not terribly much. And then they had one other investment property in Sydney that they bought maybe a year or two before. They kind of drained what they had out of equity, out of the portfolio. So they came to me with about $110,000. And they had combined incomes that were not absolutely crazy, but they probably make around $200,000, $250,000 combined. So the serviceability was still strong. But essentially what they were looking to do was have a bit of a rinse and repeat system. They came in with the willingness to be aggressive in building their portfolio. And I just pretty much provided a bit of a rinse and repeat system that we could continue employing to help build it for them.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:01:26] Yeah, that's great. So shortly, we'll probably reveal what this rinse and repeat system is. It's not rocket science!

Sam Gordon:   

[00:01:34] It certainly isn't.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:01:36] But the first thing is when they actually came on board to work with you, what was it that they did first? Because you mentioned that you had an aggressive strategy to be able to help them to grow. Let's talk about actually, firstly, start off with what they have currently, now, and then we'll take a step back because it'll be actually interesting to unravel everything. So where they are at this point in time, how many properties do they have, what'd they grind their portfolio to?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:01:58] Yeah, definitely. So at the moment, they've bought another seven properties through me since they started. And that was back in November last year. So, what are we in now, we've just gone into September... so in that, say, 10 month period, they've picked up seven properties. And it was really just all off the backing of coming in with that $110,000 they came to me with in usable equity. 

[00:02:21] Pretty much they just had that willingness to look at it from a long term perspective. These guys were in their early 30s. They weren't super young, but they also weren't into their 50s or anything like that. And they just had an aggressive approach of 'let's just build this thing out while we're young'. And then just let time do its thing in terms of the market. If we enter these markets correctly, if we can keep pulling this equity and keep moving forward, let's build this thing as strong as we can now before any market starts to turn, and really get in early. 

[00:02:52] Which really is the foundation. If you look at any strong investor's portfolio, it's all starts and really takes off after you go through a growth cycle. So really what you want to do is position yourself as strongly in that growth cycle as possible before it takes off. And then once it takes off, it's happy days after that. You just keep reinvesting that equity and really you don't have to touch too much of your own money after that point. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:03:16] That's fantastic. And that's the thing, you just let it ride, that growth. And I think everyone knows the Sydney market that boomed probably five, six years ago, that was one of the best rides for a lot of people. And a lot of people just took up the opportunity, but not realising it's the first time for them to actually feel something like that. It's not something that just happens every year or something. It's something that happens over a period of time. And that's where investing comes in. Because it's more of a long term play. You've got to build this up first. And then once it hits the right time, then it just grows and that's why you've just got to make sure that you start investing now. The sooner, the better, right, and leave it later. So that's exciting! Seven properties in such a short period of time. Now I'm curious, okay, what did you do with them?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:04:00] Mate, so am I, so am I. We're pretty impressed with the way it all worked. And he pretty much said to me, when he came to me, he goes, 'Mate, if you can make me good money on the way into every deal, if I can pull it back out and go into another deal, I'm happy just to stick with you, build my whole entire portfolio with you'. And obviously to me mate, I'm not a huge company, huge business. I'm very personal, very close to all my clients. So to me, that's huge. If someone says they want to build their whole portfolio with me, mate, I love that. 

[00:04:28] So obviously took that on board. The very first property we bought, we picked it up, it was in a good strong growth location based up in Brisbane. We paid $280,000 for it and at the time, my estimation was that it would have been worth about $325,000 to $330,000. So a good like $45,000 to $50,000 equity in the deal. On the way in we were both pretty confident on that side of things. The funny thing was when we bought that one we also bought one... so directly next door, the agent went and prospected the one directly next door after we sold it and he goes, 'Oh, we just sold this for this. Would you be interested in selling?' and the guy's like, 'You know what, I've been thinking about selling, I won't pay advertising costs. Yeah, right, why not?'. 

[00:05:12] So we bought the next one exactly the same as well. So he's picked both of them up... actually we paid a little over for that one, paid $285,000 for that one, paid $280,000 for the initial one. When the revals were done 90 days post settlement they came back at $345,000 a pop. $60,000 on one, $65,000 on the other.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:05:39] That's like an extra $100,000 on top of the equity that they put in. It's almost like they didn't even need to pull out the equity at all.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:05:45] Well, that's it mate. Like when he's been able to pull it back out, he was able to pull out more than the money he'd initially put into the deal. And still essentially leave $50,000 plus in that deal as fat in it anyway.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:05:58] That is phenomenal. You guys ever do any renovation on those ones? Or was it just a buy and hold and that was it? 

Sam Gordon:   

[00:06:03] Yeah. Pure below market buy. It was definitely bloody good deals and he was absolutely pumped to have started his portfolio with that. I think that's what gave him the confidence to be able to keep going as well. Obviously, there'd been some really, really strong supporting sales in the immediate area as well. So that's why we got such a good reval. We pretty much just essentially, as we talked about before, just rinse and repeated it. And when the time came around for round two of buying property number three and four, I changed location a little bit, we essentially targeted the same, sort of style assets, so and kind of went out and bought very similarly.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:06:42] Yeah, so the good thing about what you've been able to find is that it's actually, one, very affordable type of assets, which is what I noticed because they're actually sub three, probably no more than $350,000 or so. And that's extremely affordable. And two, it's something that you can actually generate a lot of equity with, under the market value. So it's about basically, you make your money as soon as you get into the market. Way before you buy. That's where you're able to draw that equity, leapfrog to the next one and then move on. So yeah, that's phenomenal. And did you stick at those price points for the next third, fourth, all the way up to the seventh property?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:07:17] No. So we kind of changed between different price points as we went as well. So different ones cost a little bit less and some costs a little bit more. So when we kind of moved on from that we moved into a different area that was slightly more affluent. Most of the properties we were looking at were around.. so where the other area my kind of opinion was market value at the time we bought was about $325,000 to $330,000. The other area that when we went to go and enter was— my market opinion on properties in that area, were probably around about the $340,000 to $350,000. And on that deal, we picked that one up at $295,000. 

[00:07:52] And so we were able to get a really strong reval on that one. That one came in at $350,000 on the reval too. Put it in perspective as well, Tyrone, these properties are all pulling between $350 and $360 a week rent as well. So they're not groundbreaking yields, but they're strong enough that these properties are taking care of themselves. While this investor is building the foundations of his portfolio in a good strong growth location and making his equity on the way in, he's got enough cash flow there to support it as well to keep him moving forward and not have to worry about that from a cash flow perspective.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:08:24] Yeah, that's fantastic. So that means then, hopefully, once he's purchased all these with all the transaction costs and the equity that it's gained, his property portfolio is basically covering itself. He doesn't have to be putting more money in every week to be able to sustain that portfolio and allow for the growth and you've purchased in some good areas as well, which has potentially got growth. Or it has already, because you've already purchased it under market value?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:08:47] That's it, mate. Like, I think, he was telling me his figures the other day, they were pretty solid in terms of what he's made equity-wise, but he's still running, even on those— I call them ‘bread and butters’, right, they're kind of like foundational investments. With those properties, just on those alone, I think four of the foundation style investments, and just those are generating them about... I think he's up around $10,000 to $12,000 positive just off those ones. Because we've got depreciation as well, which we can factor in on those. But even just on the cash flows alone, you're up around about that $10,000 plus across those forces, even just a good little bit of fat once— and that's once he's pulled the equity back out of them and reused it for the next purchases.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:09:25] Yeah. So roughly, if you said it's about 90 days when you go back into doing a reval, so if you've done seven... I'm just working out the numbers on 90 days. It's like 360... it's been pretty much a year. So every 90 days, you guys are doing revals to be able to pull it and that's kind of rolling it across.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:09:42] Well it's a continual rolling process. What we did was we bought his first one— I think that was in November that we bought his first one— and then we bought his second one with the second deposit in December. And by the time 90 days rolled around from the first one, we were doing the reval and the pre-approval and purchasing not too long after that one. By the time that purchase was through, the second property had been 90 days so we were able to refinance out and that's why it was a continual rolling process through there as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:10:09] And I'm wondering, 'Has he had to lift a finger?'. You must have been doing all the hard work for him! And he's just like 'Yep, you go for it Sam, you just build it up for me!'

Sam Gordon:  

[00:10:17] Pretty much, pretty much! I was even talking to him this morning because I'm buying something for his brother at the moment, we've got a deal going through for his brother at the moment as well. But we talk multiple times a week. Like even now that he's purchased... his seventh one has just gone through and he's on the back burner at the moment in terms of purchasing. To put in perspective, the fourth deal we bought for him was heavily below market in a good growth area but it also had granny flat potential. 

[00:10:45] So once we rounded out the purchasing that we did in his portfolio, he's now gone back and he's building that granny flat just to boost up the cash flow. So that deal alone at a 90% land is up around about... it's over $14,000 per annum positive cash flow. So that's what he was ringing me about this morning. We were talking about his brother's deal and he just leased the front house for above what we thought we were going to rent it for as well, because vacancies are just super tight at the moment. So he's got a really good rental on that. 

[00:11:11] And the granny flat's being finished next week and we're going to rent that one too. It's gonna be interesting to see what we pull on that, because we were projecting... I'm very happy with 8% returns. In a good capital city market growth location, if we can do 8% returns, I'm pretty happy with that. With his one and the way the market's tightened in terms of vacancies at the moment, we're looking... if we pull what we want on the granny flat, we're gonna hit 9% on his one for that, and we're 20, 25 minutes from the Brissie CBD as well. So he's pretty stoked.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:11:44] That is phenomenal. I mean, especially in that if you're buying a property inside the CBD area or close to the capital city, you know that there's going to be growth. If you hold it for 10 plus years, you're going to get solid growth, and that's what usually happens. if you look at how the Sydney market, the Melbourne market and Brisbane market, they've all moved in the last 10 years, they've all either doubled— obviously at different rates at different times— but eventually it will. It's just a matter of holding on. And this is the thing, if he's buying seven properties now and holding on to them, just wait 10 years. Even if he does nothing now, he's already got a portfolio that's growing there.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:12:18] Yeah, definitely. I couldn't agree more.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:12:21] So what's this investor's goal? What's their 'why' behind why they're building this?

Sam Gordon:  

[00:12:28] He's essentially just got a net wealth target. So what he wants to do is essentially... well, in terms of the portfolio, he wants his portfolio to hit $10 million in terms of a gross value, and he wants to hit $200,000 per annum passive income. So that's why we are putting some of these granny flat deals. And then we've got a few other high cash flow deals that we're working on with him as well, that will more than likely will be looking to— once your granny flat deal is done and all the kind of dust has settled from everything he's purchased over the last 10 months. At the back end of this year, that's when we're more than likely going to go out and look to acquire a few more high cash flow assets as well, just to keep pumping a bit of income back into the portfolio. The gross portfolio value that he wants to hit is $10 million. He wants to hit that $200,000 passive as well. So let's say he's definitely well on his way to hitting that.

Coming up after the break, we discuss how buyers can get ‘stuck’ and how to avoid it...

[00:17:44] If you make a mistake when you buy, you're honestly stuck. And when I say mistake, I mean if you pay market value, you're stuck. 

Where he started and how much he started with...

[00:21:09] I definitely didn't start out with $100,000. You know, I started with a much smaller amount but grew it to a portfolio within 10 years, it was around about that $6 million figure. 

We hear about his relationships with his connections that are in the field.

[00:23:58] And so many of the guys that I do big volume with and big numbers with, are people I would probably call mates as well. I would call mates, a handful of these agents that I work with. I think that's the thing, it's creating those relationships. 

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

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Gordon expands on the strategy behind his granny flat additions, and talks about how many properties he would need to accumulate to reach that $10 million mark.

 [00:14:30] His whole portfolio at the moment is running between properties that have between a 6% yield and a 9% yield. And what we're going to do is when we get to the back end of an accumulation phase, we will look to start doing pay down strategies as well. So he's probably going to hit his passive income target before he's going to hit $10 million in val. I think what he's looking to do is accumulate— he's looking to accumulate a $6 million portfolio that then goes through a growth cycle and doubles. So he's going to hit his $200,000 per annum before he hits his 10 mil portfolio. He just wants to carry out through a growth cycle so that it goes through to that sort of value.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:15:10] Yeah. And that makes absolute sense. Because it's just a matter of time. This is a long term asset play. As soon as you accumulate a certain amount of properties and you hold it, say, for 10 years, you stop the accumulation phase, and you just let it grow, it will double and then basically, he's got that passive income already, as you've said there. So essentially, it's just you got to mix it with the right balance of stuff. And what kind of properties are you actually recommending at this point in time for him or finding for him to be able to help with that? Because it also comes back down to the right asset class you've got to choose, or type of assets.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:15:42] Yeah, definitely. At the moment his servicing is still okay— he's starting to tap a little bit with servicing with certain lenders. So what we're doing next is we're gonna add a few more of these high cash flow deals in at the back end of this year. We're going to look to pick two more of them up, that will bump his servicing back up. Then from there, we'll look to accumulate a few more of these heavily below marketing growth, location assets. Once he's capped with good mainstream lenders on that side of things, that's when we're going to turn to some small developments, we're going to start pumping some small developments through and look to make a nice big chunk deal from that. 

[00:16:25] And that should give him a nice big hit of capital to then decide what he wants to do with them. We're just going to reassess the portfolio once we get to that point as to whether we split it up. We'll probably roll the initial capital that went into the development, we'll probably roll that into another development to keep chucking him some capital, but the hit of profit that comes out of that deal, we'll be tossing up at that point, whether we go and stick it into into some high cash flow deals, or again, accumulate another big below market equity play. So a high growth deal.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:16:58] It's really, really, really interesting and fascinating. And I guess the topic that we wanted to talk about particularly, that's the reason why we painted the picture about this particular client, because the key at the moment in his accumulation phase is to find properties that under market value. We should just have a chat a little bit about why it's so important. I mean, we've kind of given the picture and painted why this person has actually began to accumulate more properties. But why do you think it's so important to try and find properties under market value? And then let's talk about how you've been able to do it very successfully, too.

Sam Gordon: 

[00:17:30] Yeah, I think probably the easiest way to kind of describe it is I look at myself when I started out. I wasn't making very much money, I was on a $35,000 per annum salary. My first deposit was $30,000. If you make a mistake when you buy, you're honestly stuck. And when I say mistake, I mean if you pay market value, you're stuck. You are so reliant on a market to deliver growth and if that's really what you're relying on you can't get that to build that portfolio. 

[00:18:01] So if you want to essentially, for want of a better description, take your destiny and your portfolio in your own hands. If you can go out there and buy heavily below market and you can make a really good margin on the way into that deal, it means you can pull it out and keep going, the same way that this fella did. Anyone can do it in that sense in terms of being able to pull it out and keep moving forward. It's honestly so crucial because of that. You honestly get stuck, you get stuck if you can't do it. 

[00:18:28] But even if you look at people who might be walking in from... let's say they've gone through the Sydney boom, and their house was worth a million bucks and they had half a million debt on it, and it's just gone to $2 million. And they've got one and a half million dollars equity still sitting in their own home. Just because they have so much equity in their own home, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be going out trying to source as heavily below market as well. It's all about return on investment. And if you can accelerate and multiply that to a very high level from the very, very start by purchasing really, really well, it's going to put you so far ahead of the game every time. 

[00:19:05] And I think that is honestly why it's so important. It just maximises everything. You look at it from a simple perspective, you go back to my portfolio at the very start. My first deposit, how far I stretched those funds from that very first deal to have a look at the return on investment from the very first $30,000 that I put into my portfolio compared to where my portfolio is now, 10 plus years on— the return on investment from that first deposit would be ridiculous because I was able to refinance it back out, because I bought well, and go and put it into other deals. And I think that's the thing, that the return on investment just gets absolutely blown away. Especially in terms of timeframes, they get blown away. And if you're able to pull it out and keep moving forward in that sense.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:19:49] Yeah, and this is the thing to try and understand as well and probably people can't picture it as well. And I'm trying to picture this in my head. Let's Let's run some numbers across. Say for example, you had... easy numbers like $100,000 in equity that you could actually use to invest in property. If you actually invested that $100,000 into an investment that would give you say, 20% per annum? I think over a period of 10 years with say maybe punching in maybe an extra $10,000 per year just to compound it. And you compound that over, in 10 years time you would have about a million dollars in cash. That's one method. Let's say instead of doing that, we put $100,000 into building a property portfolio, and you built a portfolio up to say maybe $6 million as we're talking about this particular client— what are the comparables that you can do besides having an asset of $6 million, compared to like, a million dollars in cash. What are some of the benefits that you can actually see from that? Because I'm just trying to explain to the listeners why it's so important to actually try and buy property and build a property portfolio with it under market value as well.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:20:52] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Look, I think the thing is all about that leveraging component. Because you can leverage the bank's money, you can keep pulling their deposits out and keep moving it, that's what can allow you to build a portfolio of that size. I guess the other side of things as you build it like that... that's actually pretty similar to what I did, Tyrone, when I started out. I definitely didn't start out with $100,000. You know, I started with a much smaller amount but grew it to a portfolio within 10 years, it was around about that $6 million figure. 

[00:21:19] When you throw it into the mix, the fact that that portfolio also has about $2.5 million equity and provides... well, today the portfolio is up around about…  it's over $100,000 per annum passive. It's not just a million bucks in the bank, it's being able to leverage that and keep moving it forward. And what you can do off those initial monies and off those initial deposits, honestly, it's the return on investment. It is crazy from that side of things. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:21:47] Exponential. And that's what I love to hear. Because I think at the end, you've been there, you've done it and you're at that stage already, with that small deposit from turning from say $30,000 to $6 million plus, whatever it is. Yeah, that's a great headline actually.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:22:02] Not bad hey, maybe we should have went with that.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:22:05] Like a 2,000% return or something like that. But yeah, it goes to show how important it is to actually one, buy under market value, continue to build your portfolio, especially as early as you can, and then to let that happen. But at the same time, have the right advice and the guidance as well from the people around you, especially having a great team as well.  

Sam Gordon:   

[00:22:26] I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:22:27] Yeah, it's great that we've talked about that. And I think there's been a lot of great learning lessons from that. I'm also curious with regards to buying under market value. Let's talk about the 'how'— how have you been able to find these types of deals, because that's the challenge. I think most of us investors, one, don't have time, two, don't really have the skills to be able to do it all the time. And because you're in the market all the time looking for these deals, you can obviously get in contact with the right people to help with that. Maybe just give us some really, really simple tips, or maybe just strategies on how you go about it. You don't have to tell everything that you're doing at this point in time, but just share with the audience a few little tips that have worked really well to help you find these great deals.

Sam Gordon:   

[00:23:09] Yeah, definitely. Look, I think the biggest point you hit just there was all about having the amount of time that I do it. In terms of now, I do it full time. And the deals that I used to find for myself back when I was running it part time, compared to the deals that I find for clients now, it's the comparables, they're nowhere even near each other. It's because back then, all I thought was, 'Negotiate whatever's on market as hard as I can'. I didn't really know about the off market channels until I started getting toward 10 plus properties. I started realising that they were other channels that I could work on and negotiate. 

[00:23:47] I think from that side it's being in the market all the time. Having the connections and knowing the right agents to have connections with and working with them literally on a daily basis. And so many of the guys that I do big volume with and big numbers with, are people I would probably call mates as well. I would call mates, a handful of these agents that I work with. I think that's the thing, it's creating those relationships. 

[00:24:12] I think that's the problem with trying to do it on your own. It was a problem that I always had when I was younger as well, trying to go out there and do it on my own. It's very, very hard to create those relationships when you aren't speaking to them almost on a daily basis or at the minimum on a weekly basis, working with them on seeing what's coming through. When they know that you're someone that can stop quickly and all the rest of it and they're willing to take a little bit of a hit on their sales price on their comms, their comms doesn't really doesn't take much of a hit if they shave 10% off a price for you. 

[00:24:42] I think that's one of the big things, it's just having those connections, working those connections. And I think one of the other big things that I found with those guys that I've been working with— I'm not sure how many other people operate on the same sort of level— but I'm pretty firm when I'm saying no to a deal that they're trying to kind of shove down my throat as well. When they really want help with a deal? If it doesn't stack up for a client, if I wouldn't buy the thing myself, I'm just I'm very firm. I'd say, 'Look, mate, I'd love to be able to help you. But it doesn't work for us, and we just have to pass on this one. I'm sorry, man, but there's not much I do, I get paid to find the best deals I can and this doesn't stack up for us'. And I think it's on that side, it's working in there. And they have respect for that. And then they learn after one or two, let's not waste each other's time or kind of integrity on that side of things as well. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:25:28] I totally agree. And that shows a sign of respect as well, too, because the last thing you want to do is have all these deals come through and half of them just don't match and work up, and you’re just wasting each other's time. And that's great, because then that way, you can have a lot more volume, a lot more deals coming through that are going to be really high quality and suitable for the clients as well. And make sure that they're gonna be able to find the best under market value for them as well, which is ideally... time is our money at the end of the day. If investors are working full time or they've got businesses to run, they don't have time to go out and source these deals. That's why they rely very heavily on having a great team around them. So just working with you and so forth. And I think it's just one of the crucial factors a lot of us don't realise, as well. Plus you don't have to go through all that headache of back and forth to negotiate.

[00:26:13] That's another big thing as well right, it's, the agents knowing how you negotiate as well, and a lot of them condition sellers that something's probably going to come through, or we've got this problem, that problem, you're probably gonna have something else we got to work on here. And it's good having that, having doing it so consistently as well, because trust me, you get so much better at it the more you do it. From when I used to buy maybe two properties a year to now where it's a very, very different level to that. You definitely get a lot sharper on that side of things.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:26:45] It's really fascinating. And I used to be a real estate agent as well, too. And I think at the end of the day, they just want to be able to close a deal. Because if they don't meet their sales targets, or they don't get the properties turned over, they don't get to eat. Because it's commission only. That's the challenge that we face. And I think the reality is that we all just want to close a deal. Whether or not it be— if you get a high price, yeah, to their comms, it might only just be a fraction. Different story if you're in a different type of market, like where you're selling luxury properties and boutique properties up in the millions of dollars— different story there. Your comms, by little percentage, is going to have a huge impact on what you receive. But we're talking about investment properties here, which on the low end might only be a few hundred dollars— forget it. I just want to turn it over and move forward.

Sam Gordon:  

[00:27:28] Yeah, definitely. And that's what so many of them are like, they'd just be so much better to be done with it, cut that thing and just move on to the next one.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:27:35] Yeah. Great. And what do you see at this point in time in terms of the market that you're working in? Are you finding, due to the pandemic things have slowed down, improved, increased...? What's happening on that side of things?

Sam Gordon:   

[00:27:46] In terms of the market, the market has actually definitely improved. From what we saw in those first couple of months when COVID hit, especially that first month in March and heading into April, it was the most favourable buying conditions I've ever seen in my 10 years of investing. Putting it in perspective, I picked up a couple of properties myself, it was that good buying. And what it was as well was I had clients that got a bit nervous with the market, how it was, and understandably so. But I'd already been working on these deals for different people. And then when the deals came through, I didn't have the clients ready, that's when I picked a couple of deals up around that sort of time. 

[00:27:46] And I think the thing is it's a very, very different market now compared to what it was back then. So now, there's a lot less stock on the market, a lot of people are holding firm with where they are, they don't really want to move around as much as maybe previously was the case. I think that's also why vacancy rates have taken a massive dive and all the markets that we operate in right around Australia are really, really tight with vacancy rates at the moment. We're talking probably our most loose market is 1.5%, which is really tight and out some of the tightest markets are .1%, .2% So, you putting that in perspective, the markets are actually holding very, very firm. 

[00:27:46] And then it's coming back to the way we're finding our best deals at the moment is working off market channels as hard as we can. Because there's always sellers out there in this market that don't want to take things... owner-occupiers don't want to go to market and tenants don't want people coming through their homes and open homes and stuff. So that's where we're getting our best deals and really working those channels and we're getting agents that are loving it as well because they're like, 'well, it's a quick easy sale'. If I can get a seller that's happy to do this so easy for us. And so we're having some good times in that. 

If you learned a lot from the episode, stay tuned for future episodes where Sam Gordon and I will continue to share with you more property stories from his own journey.