Jill James, The Chief Safety Officer at Vivid Learning System Episode 2
Safety Consultant with Sheldon Primus
Jill James, The Chief Safety Officer at Vivid Learning System Episode 2
October 1, 2020
In this week's episode, Sheldon continues the conversation with Jill James, the Chief Safety Officer of Vivid Learning Systems and the host of the Accidental Safety Pro podcast. They speak about Jill's practice of Reiki, an alternative medicine practice of laying on of hands to realign the energy of patient from the practitioner. Both Jill and Sheldon are meditators and Jill provides a special meditation for the safety consultant to help get them centered and refreshed. After the guided meditation, Sheldon and Jill speak about how to become a Subject Matter Expert and what is a good one. They finish the episode on inclusion in safety and tips for breaking any glass ceiling that comes your way.
Jill James, HSI, Vivid Learning Systems, Sheldon Primus, Safety and Health, EHS, Glass Ceiling, George Floyd, Inclusion, Subject Matter Expert, Summit Safety, Safety Consultant, OSHA, OSHA Compliance, Business Leadership, Leadership, Occupational Safety, PPE, Hierarchy of Controls, HOP, BBS, Reiki, Guided Meditation, Meditation, Mindfulness, Breathwork, Breathing, Entrepreneur, Stress Management, Healing, Energy work, Minnesota, Minnesota OSHA, Mentoring, Board Members, Active Shooter

[00:00:00] spk_1: this episode is powered by Safety

[00:00:04] spk_0: FM. This is Sheldon Prima's, the host of the safety consultant podcast.

[00:00:08] spk_1: During this time, we've all been

[00:00:11] spk_0: tightening our belts because of Cove in 19. I have been as well. Recently. I found cost effective alternative to some of the

[00:00:20] spk_1: services and

[00:00:21] spk_0: programs that I was using, such as email, marketing, hosting services and even

[00:00:28] spk_1: one of

[00:00:29] spk_0: my favorites. Teachable Visit Sheldon Prima's dot com back slash resource is for special offers to help you reduce your business overhead. If you're hosting a podcast or one of host the podcast,

[00:00:44] spk_1: then

[00:00:45] spk_0: visit Sheldon. Primacy. Com.

[00:00:46] spk_1: Backslash hosting for

[00:00:49] spk_0: a knockout deal Don't give UP on your dream. Get smarter on the back end of your business. This is Sheldon Promise on, and I'm the host of the safety consultant podcast. This is the show where I teach you how to do the business of being a safety consultant. So today's episode we're actually going to continue our conversation with the fabulous Jill James. You could tell that we're having fun. We're giving you consultants a good idea of how you could offer services such as Mike OSHA audits when you need to look for, uh, if you're an informal conference, some of the things Thio help you tips and tricks. You learned a little bit about being an investigator for OSHA and a few other things. Uh, in this episode, though, uh, Jill is going to lead us into a meditation. Uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about that aspect of, you know, making sure that you're well rounded because no one needs burnout and well rounded includes setting some time out for some spirituality, setting some time out for making sure you center yourself. So we talked about that as well as the guided meditation that she does for us. And then also, uh, we started talking about how she became part of the vivid team and even my time when I used to be a subject matter expert for one of their products, which was summit Safety s O. It was a fun opportunity for me. Way kind of wonderful time. Great conversation. Eso I really hope that you guys get something out of everything that we talked about all the little rabbit holes and back eso It was really a necks I ting experience for me and fun for me to interview her, and she was very gracious to do with that interview. So I thank you, Jill, very much. Eso without any further ado, we're gonna go into straight into the episode. There will not be a sponsor, uh, tag this week. But next week, I probably will again. And truly, I'm not going to do a tip of the week either. Uh, we're just gonna let everything that Jill hands for us resonate with us. And that is our tip. Listen real close to what she's got to say. She's got some great stuff continuing from what she had on Monday's episode, so today is more of the same. Now you're gonna have ah, blast like I did. So just sit back and joy, and we're gonna listen to Jill James things. Yeah, absolutely. And this kind of leads me to the thing I really, really wanted to talk to you about. That got me thinking about U e thought about this thing. And I've been thinking about over and over and over, and I e need to reach out to Geo. Okay. Oh,

[00:03:50] spk_1: gosh. I'm dying to find out. What is this with

[00:03:53] spk_0: all this stress How do you cope? And I know that you have a practice of Ricky. So explain that to us. And then, uh, any tips, tricks, anything that you use that you say. Okay, I am stressed out here, especially now with the pandemic, you know, And then all the stuff that were expected A safety and Health officers consultant. So we're expected to lead and not follow. And that also brings its own stressors. So what What are some of the things that you use? I know I meditate. Uh, sometimes not as often as I should, but I do. And I like to practice of meditation. My wife's meditate. Yoga eso She loves those practices as well. Mindfulness. What? What are some of the things that you use and how has it benefited

[00:04:45] spk_1: you? Yeah, really Good question. And and I know these practices and I haven't been doing so well as much as I've been counseling others to do better myself. That has been, You know what? It has been hard, and I know that everyone who's listening it's hard for them right now as well. I've had the opportunity over the last number of want months to be working, along with the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, which is a division of the N I H. The National Institute of Health, and working on some training. My company has been supporting them and developing training for frontline workers. And every week I'm listening Thio workshops, sometimes twice a week from the front lines of what people's exposures are hearing from the unions, hearing from scientists, hearing from educators and oh my gosh, it's just so daunting and it fills your head. And my son told me my job was dressing him out. He's like Mom, I can't even listen. E can't even listen to your work. It's just making me so stressed out. So tip number one is You've got to turn this off, right? Eso if we're talking about it 100% of the time, you know your anxiety is just going to rise, and you'll have it rise in your family as well. If you have people in your life who are who are listening, listening in on your work. So that's not to say they to ignore it, just like try to find a way to turn it off, you know, and with purpose to turn it off. But you had asked about mindfulness practices. And so yeah, I found, um, Ray Chiari I k. I is the name of an ancient Japanese practice of laying on of hands. You might call it energy work. Sometimes people will hear of refer to it as healing touch, particularly in hospice care on DSO, its's a laying on of hands, not massage. Thio do energy work on people and through through touch. And so I have been doing that for eight years and not like as a full time gig. But usually it's something I do for people who need to chill out a little bit. For some reason, maybe they're struggling with health may be their It's the eve of a surgery, and they need to, like, center and find themselves. And or maybe there's just some stressful something that's happening in their life. And so I meet with them and do my energy work. And in that process, I've learned a lot of brought breath and breath work along with my own personal yoga practice. Azaz well have had a phenomenal teacher for about eight years who has taught me so much and unfortunately, have not been in the studio since March. And so all of my yoga work is done at home now. But I practice that breathing and those breathing techniques to just kind of settle you and settle your mind and bring you back to yourself where you have the ability then to be creative or to be thoughtful or to come up with. And, you know, like maybe you've been struggling with something like, How am I going to tackle this home? We're going to tackle this. And instead of just keeping thinking and thinking and thinking, you need to get out of your head, you know? And what better way to get out of your head, um, than to breathe or to get into nature and plant your feet on the earth And, you know, find that find that deep, deep breath that's out of your out of, you know, the top of your chest, but moving down into your abdomen so that you can center s. So I do that I have. I hike in my state park almost almost daily, where I'm in nature and with nature so that I can I can be free Thio processed my thoughts, process thinking, maybe a project I'm working on and really do my breath work on. I'd be happy to take the audience on a little journey. A little exercise with a little breath work and a little guided meditation. I am? Yeah, we could do that, Sheldon. I'd be happy to share that.

[00:09:00] spk_0: Alright. I am getting myself ready. You hear my mic going there? I am on when, uh, And if you did hear Jill, right? Breathing in. When you normally we breathe, we breathe in and our chest expands because we're bring you breathing into our lungs as opposed to breathing into your stomach, which is a deeper thing. Think of when you need to do your public speaking, and you have to engage that diaphragm. And now you're if you were toe push on your stomach. Can that feeling when you tighten that up Thio to project your voice out? That's where your breathing into and you want to really fill the belly even though you're like, oh, man and all my belly to look big. Yeah, that's the way that it actually it works. And health centers you. It gets that that breath flowing in you And do you do breathe through my nose out through mouth? Or are

[00:09:53] spk_1: you gonna get my mouth? Yeah, And when you know, when I describe often to people, if I take people on a little bit of a breathing exercise prior to me doing energy work, e have people to think about babies. If you've ever watched a baby breathe, you can see that babies tummies rise and fall when they're breathing on. That's the way we were born breathing like we all were doing it. So right when we came into this world, yeah, and then we lost it as our world and lives get crazier and crazier with things. And, you know, pretty soon we're breathing like in our throats, and it feels constrictive, but we need to take a cue from babies and look at the way that babies breathe with their tummies rising and falling and it just automatically. When you start doing that in concentrating on it, it allows your shoulders to start to relax and pull away from pull away from your ears. And, you know, I usually the exhale through my mouth kind of that. You know that like I'm like, I'm imagining all the gunk, all the gunk coming out straight up straight off my mouth, like, you know, in the movie The Green Mile.

[00:11:03] spk_0: Yeah, you're talking. I'm literally doing it. It's just it reminds me to do that.

[00:11:10] spk_1: Yeah, it's so it's so powerful and you know you can even do it when you're driving, And that's not saying you're closing your eyes or anything. But sometimes I'm reminded when I get behind the wheel of the car when you really need to pay attention, Aziz. Well, you know, to try to take some of those cleansing breaths and start that diaphragmatic breathing as it's called. And do that exhale. And you know you can concentrate on your driving in the road a same time because if anyone's ever grabbed the steering wheel and realized that their shoulders air up coast of their ears, it's like E. I gotta chill out. Maybe now is the time. Thio. Just start doing that and breathing.

[00:11:49] spk_0: Yeah, well, I would be honored if you would lead us through something. Whatever time you want. Whatever patient want, I'm giving it to you. E need this. I'm selfish. I need this

[00:12:01] spk_1: e todo itself. But thank you so much for listening to Sheldon and I today. It was really fun to be with you, Sheldon. Appreciate the ability or the opportunity rather to tell stories. Always appreciate that. And thank you to everyone listening today. Thank you for taking time. Thank you for doing the hard work that we are all doing right now. These air some really unprecedented times for our occupation. Everyone's working their hearts out. And when we're working our hearts out, we often forget that we need to take time for ourselves time for ourselves to regenerate and take a little bit of time to be silent, to go within, to heal ourselves so that we can go on and continue helping people and also to create some space and quiet so that we could be creative. So many of you who are listening our consultants and you're working so hard on your businesses and creating your businesses and keeping them flourishing and alive. And a lot of times, the creativity it takes to take the next step includes getting silent so that you can create that space in your minds and in your hearts. So I invite you to do that. Now, we'll just take a few minutes together to do a little bit of a guided meditation, so I would ask everyone right now to get comfortable wherever they're seated if you're seated. Unless, of course, if you're driving, think you'd want to pull over and listen to this later and you can place your hands at your sides or in your lap, perhaps with your palms facing up. Release the stress in your fingers in your palm's start To relax your shoulders. You might notice that your shoulders or somewhere up toward your ears a lot of us carry your attention that way. Try toe. Wiggle those shoulders down away from our ears and take a deep breath in and release that breath. You could just continue toe. Listen to me speak for the next few moments. Go ahead and soften your eyes. Now, if you haven't already, take another breath in and this time, concentrate and think about where you're bringing that breath. So focus on taking your breath deep down in your belly, expanding your belly as you breathe in and then letting that air release. You can breathe out through your nose or through an open mouth If you feel comfortable that way, I want you to imagine you watch a baby Breathe. You could remember When a baby is breathing you watch their little tummies rise and fall. That's how we were all born breathing That is the way that we should be breathing. But as we get older and we're adults, we start breathing way up in the top of our chests. Those are the things that bring our shoulders up to our ears. So this time is you take your deep breath. Remember that baby breathing where you're inhaling where your tummy is expanding and you're exhaling through your nose or mouth thes air called cleansing breaths, Literally bringing in that air blowing out as if we're taking time to cleanse our system cleanser body. Get rid of all that stress and anxiety. Yeah, I invite you to just keep breathing like this. As you're listening to my words again, you can relax your fingers. Maybe relax your toes. If you have your legs crossed on, cross them and ground your feet. Anchor yourself where you're seated. Now the focus of this brief meditation today is on releasing doubt and having faith in yourself to do the important work that you're doing right now, I want you to release any stress you have in this moment and anxiety. Just take time to breathe. Settle in, take care of yourself and you can repeat after me quietly in your own mind. I release all anxiety and have faith in me and my abilities. I release all doubt and anxiety and replace with faith in me and my gifts and abilities e release all doubt and replace with faith in me I restore my inner confidence and peace I release all doubt and replace with faith and confidence in me e release all doubt and replace with faith in my abilities. Okay, take another deep breath in and out You could begin toe open your eyes Remembering that throughout the rest of today and tonight you can come back to this breath, come back to this baby breathing the way that we were born and came into this world breathing knowing that you can use this breath to center yourself at any time, get your mind in your heart back on track and refreshed. Thank you again for being with us.

[00:19:40] spk_0: I know we haven't talked about Vivid. And, uh, HSI So anything you want to share about that toe work you're currently doing?

[00:19:48] spk_1: Yeah, right. So, Sheldon, you mentioned that I work for a company called HS I. So you confined our company at HSI Doc Come. And the podcast that I host is called The Accidental Safety Pro. And you can find it on any podcast player and on YouTube. It's also hosted on our website with With transcription so you can read a zwelling. Those currently are hosted at Vivid Learning systems dot com and eso. I work for HSI and and you know, our company is Gosh, we have been growing and growing by leaps and bounds with safety management system and training and chemical management, STS management and CPR and first aid training and training trainers for that. And you know, our software platform for we're managing your incidents and doing your investigations in your audits. And

[00:20:54] spk_0: may I ask how you got that gig?

[00:20:56] spk_1: Yeah. How did I get that gig? This is a good story, right? I am passionate. I am passionate about the company that I worked that I worked for and I'm so grateful to be able to host the podcast, which is just one of the things that they do for the company. But I was a client, uh, so many years ago. Houthis is kind of a fun story, I guess. In a nerdy safety world, I was out of safety conference, and, uh, that one there was a booth, you know, on the expo floor. And it was about online safety training. And the person the sales person at the booth at the time, you know, basically, like, reels me in and says, you know, come over here. I want to tell you about online safety training. And I thought, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Like Like, why would I be interested in this? And he says, Well, I'm gonna do a break out session. I want you to come and listen, Thio. What we do with online safety training and yeah, I'm gonna go to that. I'm just gonna throw darts in this at this guy the whole time. Because online safety training has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. You know, I'm a trainer. You can't do this. effectively online. And so I thought, I'm gonna go on. I'm gonna be a critic. Um, little did I know. He converted me immediately. They start when he started talking about how the courses were developed by people who study adult learning theory and who are instructional designers and who build courses, not videos, but actual courses for adults to engage them for knowledge transfer. And And I'm like, what? This is a thing, you know? And then I'm like, but its safety. And then pretty soon I'm in my mind. I have my pretend CFR open. And I'm like, Oh, they checked all the boxes. Not only is this engaging, but it's checking all the compliance boxes. Well, dang. Okay, So he converted me and I went to a believer and online safety training, and I can't remember which exact job I was at at the time. But I thought if I ever get in a position where I have to, like, figure out how to do training, I'm calling this company. And so I had, you know, I had I took notes that day, and I put it in a file on day got filed away and a couple of jobs. Later, I was faced with figuring out how to do training for the first time in a in a 65 year history of a company they had never had a safety professional. Three only safety training they had ever done was buy funny little YouTube videos that they could find. They had employees across five states under 12 different company names that spanned everything from, um, engineering and sciences and ah, pharmaceutical vaccine development Thio Poultry workers working in in in poultry barns. And I thought, How on earth am I ever going to train all of these people of this breath across all of these states across all of these different topics and disciplines. And so I took that file out and I called. I called him and I said, E need to hire you now. It's been like three years, but e need to hire your company s. I was able to do that. And so I became a client of what was then vivid learning systems. And when it was time for me to move on to a different job and I was thinking about where I'd like to go, I was telling my contact at Vivid, um, that, you know, I'll be I'll be moving on. I'm looking for another job. I don't know where I'm going to go yet, but I just want you to know I'll do what I can to make sure your retained and well, what were you looking? And I said, you know, kind of narrowed my ideas of things I might want to do. And he said, Well, what about our company? What about coming and working for us S, I don't know. And so soon I was meeting the CEO and next I was hired. And I've been, uh, helping helping create content and assets for the safety and health audience and for our company and for our products. Nice ever since. And we grew into being acquired by the by HSI, and it's been six years, and it's been a really great career.

[00:25:15] spk_0: Oh, man, that's awesome. That's a great story. That's really is a great story, E. I guess you guys were using the the system, right? The analyze, uh, analyze design, develop, uh,

[00:25:33] spk_1: regarding training and instructional designers and e I don't wanna I don't want to get into their discipline. I've interviewed them on my on my podcast. However e you can hear them talk about it.

[00:25:47] spk_0: Yeah, that's great, because truly I am one of the things I tell three audiences, if you can do work, is a subject matter expert. You know, you really want to reach out and get get some work with some of these companies because you may have an expertise that someone else doesn't have. And they need reviewing some courses or they need something similar to that and truly remember working for for some it. When I had Thio was

[00:26:14] spk_1: it's one of the brands that we own under HSI Yeah,

[00:26:17] spk_0: yeah. So I worked with them for quite a wit. Quite a little good space to. And I was I was really happy with with, you know, the way that they did things is one of the things that really impressed me of just all the communication and then me as the SME. I give some work to someone else. They take over and they fit in the fiddle with it. And then they give it back and I go through it that with them, and it's a back and forth and you know you really get invested in this thing. So when it's finally the program is delivered, Teoh, you know the public and you get to see this thing I'm like, Wow, I hope with that.

[00:26:51] spk_1: Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty phenomenal, right? So, yeah, if people who are listening are familiar with that. So subject matter experts for SMEs are often called upon, including at my company are instructional design Team are Learning Solutions Team rather as there as they're called? Um, they contract with subject matter experts when they're designing courses. And so I'm not the SME for the courses that are company. Nor do I want to be. There's lots of people who love doing that kind of work. I provided subject matter expertise on one course that we've developed, and that's our active shooter response course. Yeah, which was, of course, that we developed a number of years ago. A za reason. Well, you know, there's a story to that E No, we've got a lot of time. Sheldon, we don't have a lot of times e

[00:27:46] spk_0: I am. I am in. You know, I got you. I'm not letting you go until you say Sheldon, I gotta go e

[00:27:52] spk_1: o. So I was at our sales team, actually was asking for a long time, Don't you think? We need an active shooter Response course. And I said, You know, I you know, I don't know. The government has done so much. There's so much free training out there. I haven't seen anything that's really unique. You know, I think we can send people that direction. Um, And then it was at a conference with a coworker of mine, and we were listening Teoh, a speaker in from North Carolina, and he was speaking specifically about active shooter response training and specifically around brain chemistry. And what happens in the amygdala under mortal threat. And you know all of this, Um uh, run, hide, fight. Can't make a decision to do that when you're a Magdala locks you down into freeze. And so he was really talking about how do we override that amygdala and had been doing some research, uh, at with N Y u on my coworker and I were texting each other across the room, and he's like, Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm like, yeah, we need to get this guy. Is an SME, and we need develop to develop a course. And we need to include this because this is a differentiator on and yeah, and so that set us off on a path. And what I didn't know at the time was that when backing up when our Learning Solutions team develops a course, they use something called threaded storytelling where they set up a scenario and they're telling a story to engage the learner throughout the course. And for this particular course, what I did not know is that one of my own co workers, um, is this the is a survivor of the first school shooting in U. S. History, which happened in Moses Lake Washington, which is something that not a lot of people know. It was the first one. It was a long time ago, and he was a junior high kid at the time, and he said eso we said, Chris, would you be willing to share your story for the threaded storytelling? Can we put it on film? Can we use this in the course? And he said, Yeah, but only under one condition, he said. If my teacher who who eliminated the shooter on that day can be part of the story. John Lane. And so we said, Well, of course. Do you think he'd be willing to share his story? And he was been a speaker about active shooter response all over the United States for a long time. So we contacted his teacher and he said Yes, of course. And so the two of them shared their story

[00:30:39] spk_0: on We were

[00:30:39] spk_1: able to weave it into the course, and Chris, my coworker, was ableto had such interesting things, like he said, as a kid when they heard the gunfire in the school. And I'm sorry if this is a trigger for anyone, Um, they didn't have a frame of reference for it. They thought it was dogs barking because they didn't know what gunfire, riel gunfire sounded like. And so Chris suggested that we put a listening exercise into the course so that people know what Hollywood gunfire real gunfire sounds like, you know. And so he was able toe add in pieces like that, um, into the course development. And so we developed this course and pitched it to our CEO. So if we want to do this and and we told our CEO at the time Way don't want to charge for this because we don't believe that there should be a barrier to access to this kind of information for people to learn how to protect themselves. And yes, we did add in those pieces about how toe override that of Magdala response to get out of your cave man brain. And he said, Why wouldn't we? Of course, we're not going to charge for it. And so it's been free and continues to be free ever since. And so people always have access to that, and we designed it and built it to be G rated. And so it's not not scary. Your kids can take it. Your faith organizations can take it, your workplace can take it, and thousands and thousands of people have completed way. Keep building on it. We keep building on it. We just acquired a company a little bit ago called Avert, who have in person training on these, also, these kind of strategies and more things that you can do in your workplace and bleeding control. And so we've really been building on that ever since. But thanks to my co worker Chris, for being brave when sharing his story.

[00:32:33] spk_0: Wow, that is awesome story. And that's a great, um, corporate culture. To think that you can have something like that, share it with others on not one of, you know, hoard that information because you would have spent a lot of time, energy, effort, money to develop this thing. So that's that's doing it for the

[00:32:57] spk_1: right reason. Well, and you know what the other really cool thing is? They're learning solutions team, um, donated their time and built, of course. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Kudos. Yeah, Z right. Terrible. Good things can happen out of terrible things. Yeah, and that certainly that certainly example of

[00:33:19] spk_0: Yeah, that is awesome. Hold on. I'm gonna give you guys applause. Yeah, that's my my road. Castor bored with you gotta love this board. You could do all kinds of stuff, but I haven't played around with Yeah, that's awesome story, Jill. I really, uh I've got a taste of it. And like I told you before, I've been working with so many companies. I see they're different approaches. There's one company that I work with, and I'm not really a fan off but they're starting to come along a little. So every time I get a call from now, like, all right, let's see if they're different this time. And, uh, it's the journey. So this time we'll see. I have been working with them again on I'm creating a course for them this time. So they use Mia's sme slash instructional designer s. Oh, I'm going to see how this one works. But I like hearing when people do it right, because again, my mindset is you're doing it for a purpose. Someone's gonna end up taking this course for a reason. And so some reasons might they need cuz. Okay, I understand that. But you still want to make sure that they understand the learning, and then also that is going to mean something when it's practical use. And then they're going to save themselves from, you know, an amputation or something. You know, that's horrible. So, yeah, that's that's why

[00:34:50] spk_1: yeah, yeah, for your audience. Um, in terms of you know, what makes a good SME are my co workers who are the instructional designers? Um, they talk about that in the episode that I did with, um s o specifically talking about what do they look for? An SME? What makes a good relationship a good partnership in that so that that episode's title is how safety is made. I don't remember which number it is that I don't have a lot of memorize, but I know that that's the title of that.

[00:35:24] spk_0: Okay, good. That was the next question. Is a literally forming the words in my mouth to say, What episode is that? Eso That's excellent for you guys. If you wanna find that out. Any tips for someone to get into the market?

[00:35:37] spk_1: Yeah, you know, don't be shy. Just ask, right? E mean, so there are There are definitely companies that do that Do instructional design work, even unit at colleges and universities that are that have instructional designers. And I've never been shy to ask. You know, e don't think, you know, if the jobs that I've had in my career, except for the OSHA one, all of them were jobs that I pursued, you know, all of them were doors that I knocked on and said, I think there's a place for me here and here's why. I believe that and you should hire me. And, um, you know, that happened. And so same thing if you wanna be an sme goto goto a company that you feel like Gosh, I really respect what they're doing. I've been watching this guy really respect what they're doing and ask how you could be part of it.

[00:36:35] spk_0: E e don't know if I want to go even more. But in the giving me the smile So that means Go, Sheldon, go. Uh, is that a trait that you found throughout the your career? Meaning you've you've always had that, Or did you pick it up along the way? As you know, just going ahead and getting what you want, because a lot of ah lot of talk right now has been in inclusion. So some of you have seen me. No, I'm a black man. So therefore, inclusion for me is some of the things, the topics that I hear about a lot. And remember, I've done several current, um, episodes of other shows, and we talk about inclusion. So it's a buzzword. Almost because of what they had to go through with the George void, Um, that that murder eso that truly has sparked just even a global worrying about, you know, equality and everything else. And that's one aspect of it. But now, in our home aspect of it, of safety and health, Uh, you did for me. I'll say this way. I do see a lot of people that air in the safety and health field of different, uh, colors, persuasions, um, different type of personalities as well as physical appearances. Uh, but for me, I only see it a certain levels when you have to go to a higher level of safety management. I don't see that kind of inclusion for women, people of color and more diversity. And as you get further up, so is that mentality of just go get it. Does that mean you could break through a glass healing by going and getting it? Or do you think there is still a distinct glass ceiling for some people, even in the safety and health

[00:38:35] spk_1: world? You know, e would just be, you know, telling this truce if I didn't say there's a glass ceiling, you know? I mean, there is Yeah, there is. Are there ways that we can crack it? Are there ways that we can stand on one another shoulders not to push people down, but to raise each other up and, you know, build on things that we've all done. You get people, um, places. Yes, yes. And so is there. Is there one magic one for that? No, I think it's definitely multifactorial, right? E mean, I've certainly addressed, um this on my podcast in a couple of different ways, including having a gender economist. There is such a thing. I've interviewed a gender economist on my show Thio to talk about to talk about just that Her name is categorized, by the way, a brilliant, brilliant person. Um, you know, But what can we do to help one another? You know, I've made I've committed myself to helping open doors for other women. Yes. No, because that's something I could do for my place. And so when women call me as they do and ask like, could I have a conversation with you? Um, would you consider mentoring me? Could we walk through something I'm struggling with right now at work? And could you give me some ideas, or could we just kind of talk through it? Let's see if we can come up with a different way. I do that on make room for people. It doesn't mean I have all the answers, but it doesn't mean I'm willing to listen right. And I think that's really important that we do that Our field, our field of practice, is wired for that already. You know, the work that we do isn't proprietary. You ask any safety professional like, Hey, do you have this written program? Would you share it with mirror? I'm trying to do research on this. I've never heard of, you know, whatever. Could you help me? We help each other. And so why not help each other in helping open doors? Career Waas, um you know a challenge with how How should I tackle? This was management. I'm trying to move up in the organization. How do I do this? What would you do? Could you be as my friend, Brandy says on my personal board of directors, She like, say that she's guest number one or two on my podcast? She talks about talks about her personal board of directors and she called me a few weeks ago and she said, Hey, Joe, you know how you're on my board of directors like for my career, and I'm like, Yeah, she said, Do you have time to talk with me? I've got this. I've got this thing I'm trying to work through and you know, and so I think e think helping one another out in those in those ways in helping open doors for other people can certainly help with inclusion. It's not. It's not the only answer, but I think it's part of the puzzle. E it's part of the puzzle.

[00:41:39] spk_0: Excellent. Alright, I'm gonna have to go myself. So go ahead and plug it again if you need Thio. I didn't know if I covered everything that you wanna, you know, plug or

[00:41:49] spk_1: promote. So please do that. Yeah. I mean, we've We've talked about a number of things. Um, you know, I work for the for a company, HSI, which is HSI dot com. So, in reference to the active shooter class, some of the other solutions that I talked about those could be found on our website. And then the podcast that I host is called the Accidental Safety Pro and I am the host and I talked with safety, health professionals from all over the country and one Australian e and love for you to join in the conversation. Be part of the podcast. Eso Thank you, Sheldon. Really appreciate the opportunity today. How fun is this?

[00:42:33] spk_0: Thanks for letting me tell stories. Yeah, I'm so in. Thank you so much, Jill, for just agreeing to be here. All right. The amazing Jill changed everybody. Yes. Thank you so much. You're welcome. All right. You enjoy your knife. Thanks, Sheldon. All right. Bye bye. This'll episode has been powered by Safety FM.