In this episode of Property Investory we will learn about the financial struggles she faced early on, and how that led her to realise what’s really important in life. We hear about her innermost thoughts when it comes to her career, how it pays to listen to the quieter members of the group, and how if she can do it, you can too.

Timestamps:
3:19 | Rediscover What Makes You Happy
6:17 | Am I An Imposter?
9:32 | Little Did I Know...
13:58 | The Loudest are Not Always the Majority
19:27 | Invest in Insurance
21:54 | Share Your Connections to Make New Ones
23:58 | If You Don’t Value the Person, Don’t Value the Feedback
27:41 | #IfSheCanICanToo
32:08 | Take Every Opportunity

Resources and Links:

[00:07:11] I don't really have a lot of negative self talk. I'm on pretty good terms with myself. But even still, there are those moments where it's just like, 'Oh, no, you can't do that'. And it was even when it came to buying the Laing and Simmons business.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re continuing our discussion with Leanne Pilkington, who is currently the only female Managing Director in real estate franchising and president of the Real Estate Institute of New South Wales. Learn how she is actively inspiring other women to follow in her footsteps and achieve their goals.

Tyrone Shum:  

Like we all have at some point, Pilkington has had her struggles. She shares one of her worst times across business and how it affected her personal life.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:00:31] Probably the most difficult time personally was when my husband became redundant, and he was out of work for quite some time. We had a couple of properties at that time, so I was in a very privileged position that we had an apartment in the city and we had the house here at Glenhaven, and my husband travelled a lot for his job. So when he was away, I would go and stay in town. It's an expensive way to live, two separate residences. 

[00:01:05] It got really hard for him. It was at a time when... you know, GFC. And so anyway, it was really hard, and trying to look forward to things was really hard, because we didn't have any money. I could just cover our expenses and stuff. But there was no money for luxuries. And so my husband, God love him, would make my breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. So I'd have a packed breakfast to take to work and a packed lunch to take all of that sort of stuff. He was wonderful. But it was really hard. 

[00:01:40] It was really hard to find things to look forward to. But what was super important to me, reflecting back on it, I had a really beautiful lifestyle. As I said, living between two properties, driving a sports car, wearing designer label clothes, travelling business class around the world. Rob would be in Hong Kong and say, 'Hey, baby, I can't get home. I've got you a ticket, though. You're leaving tomorrow, you'll be in Hong Kong for four days'. And I would get to the airport and it'd be a first class ticket! Care of frequent flyer points, of course. 

[00:02:15] So we had a really incredible lifestyle. And I thought that all of that was really important. But what I learned during that time was, that's actually not the important stuff. I can live without all of that stuff. I can even live without my shoes, if I have to. What was important to me was us, was our relationship and that we were okay and he was okay, going through this difficult time. I would be in a very different place financially now if that didn't happen. I'm glad it did. Because it really shone a light on what was important to me. And that has shaped the way I've done things moving forward, to be honest.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:02:59] What a beautiful story. 

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:03:03] I don't tell that story very often!

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:03:05] I really appreciate that. Because it goes to show there's so many great things in life, and you can have a wonderful lifestyle, but at the end of the day, it's that relationship with your husband or your wife or your family and so forth. Because that's something that you can never have…

Rediscover What Makes You Happy 

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:03:19] Yeah. That's right, you can be the richest person in the world, but if you don't have those things, those people, those relationships. I was doing a training session not long ago with my team. And the speaker said, 'Really quickly, write down the things that make you happy'. And I thought, 'Oh, okay, that's a challenge'. And the things that I wrote down really surprised me, even. I mean, I do love to shop. But those weren't the things that... you know. I wrote down 'sunshine', sunshine makes me happy. Dancing makes me happy. Having time to read a book makes me happy. And I thought, 'Oh, okay, I've actually got to try to work some of those things into my day more frequently'. There's no reason— I've got a beautiful back deck here. There's no reason why I can't, when I'm making my phone calls, sit out on the back deck and do it rather than sitting here. 

[00:04:16] So just quickly thinking about the things that bring a smile to your face every day. The simple things. It might be... I've got a seven year old niece who is just completely adorable. Talking to her always makes me laugh. So making time for those things, that's really super important. 

Tyrone Shum:   

Pilkington shares the moments where she doubted herself, despite others’ belief and faith in her, and how these turned into her ‘aha’ moments.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:05:04] Every time I get approached to do something, I go, 'I can't do that. Why would you want me?' So when I was promoted to managing director, they said to me, 'Leanne, we think it's time that Laing and Siemens had a managing director'. And I thought to myself, 'I cannot believe after all this time, they're going to bring somebody in over the top of me, how rude is that?!' And they're like, 'No, Leanne, we're talking about you'. I'm like, 'Oh! Okay then'. 

[00:05:47] When I was approached, because I was actually tapped on the shoulder— I was on the board of the REI, because I've been really passionate about improving the education and training standards for real estate agents. They tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'We'd like you to consider being our next president'. I was like, 'Are you for real? Like, I can't do that, why can I do that?' And I thought to myself, 'Oh Leanne, get over yourself. Of course you can do it.' 

[00:06:17] I still have those things that happen to me. My networking group, Real Women in Real Estate, we were— pre COVID— running events around the country. And I started that group back in 2015 with a friend of mine, Tangelie, who's based in Melbourne. Tange was coming to all of the events and she's a fantastic speaker and trainer and she would be the host, if you like, and she would run all of the stuff that we would do on the nights. And she just said to me, 'Hey, this is getting too big. I can't travel like this anymore'. And I thought, 'Well, I can't do it without Tange. Hold on. I'm seeing a theme here. I always immediately think no I can't. And of course, I can. And do'. So it's a real lesson. 

 

[00:07:11] I don't really have a lot of negative self talk. I'm on pretty good terms with myself. But even still, there are those moments where it's just like, 'Oh, no, you can't do that'. And it was even when it came to buying the Laing and Simmons business. I was really scared of making that financial commitment, having that financial risk at this point in my life, thinking, 'I can't bring the brand what it needs'. And it's like, 'Get over yourself. Leanne, of course you can. You know exactly what the brand needs. Just have the guts to have a crack'. So that's what I'm doing.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:07:51] I love that. It's so encouraging to hear that, because I think a lot of people have these sometimes negative thoughts in there, and you're a true example of how to overcome these things. And you've just taken action too, as well. And that's what I love about hearing your stories. And it's just this great inspiration for so many listeners out there. And thank you for sharing that as well.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:08:11] Oh, thank you. That's very sweet of you. You've got to be prepared to be uncomfortable. Just take a bit of a risk. I don't care. Like I said, I'm 58. I've got lots of friends who are having conversations around retirement, and it's like, 'Well, I've just bought a business!' Retirement's just not even on my radar!

 

[00:08:44] I've got a plan! I've got a plan for a decade. Because we've got a really high calibre board at Laing and Simmons that I've put together. My 10 year plan is to transition to become chairman of the board— or chairperson of the board— at that time, so hopefully, I'm going to learn a lot from our current chairman. And that will be my career progression at that age. So that's my plan!

Tyrone Shum:  

She goes on to describe how she came across the opportunity, and gives more detail on the background behind her exciting purchase.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:09:32] It's only just happened, we haven't even settled yet. Back in 2012 we were bought by a business and it started great. It was really good. They added so much value and so much energy to Laing and Simmons, and it was going really well. 

[00:09:58] Real estate has changed significantly in the last few years. And franchising needs to change with it. And so I was very clear on what I thought we should be delivering. And they were on the same page, and we were all working very happily along. And then a few things changed for their business, which changed their focus— which is perfectly fine, I completely understand. 

[00:10:22] One of the things that I do with my team every year is we write a letter to ourselves in December of every year to be read at the December of the following year. We write it as if we've achieved all of these things. So it's like a business plan by another name, right? And 2019, I struggled with it, and I wasn't looking forward to 2020— little did I know what was going to happen in 2020, right?!— but I just didn't feel that I could deliver on what I knew the brand needed, because the owners didn't agree with me. And so 2019, in my letter to myself, I said 'It's December 2020, and Laing and Simmons have new owners'. 

[00:11:13] So, that was not my plan, to be one of the owners. It couldn't be further from what I was thinking about doing. But we had some conversations with some people who had shown some interest in buying the brand. And I realised that it probably wasn't going to go well for some of the franchisees, they weren't going to be happy with another big brand buying us. So I had a couple of franchisees who heard on the grapevine that it potentially could be sold. And so they said, 'You know what? We'd actually like to buy it, but we'll only do it if you buy it with us'. And I'm like, 'I don't want to do that! I'm tired!' 

[00:11:53] And then the more I thought about it, the more I thought, 'You know what, actually, this can make some sense'. One of the struggles with being a franchisor is getting the individual business owners on board to actually implement the stuff that head office wants to do. It's always this... tension, if you like. And so I thought, 'If I can get a big enough cohort that actually owns the business, then I can use them to demonstrate that my ideas are sound, and then we can roll it out more easily to the rest of the group'. 

[00:12:32] And so very quickly, I realised that a lot of the franchisees wanted to get involved, so we had to actually limit... we've got a few small shareholders— there's a group of us that have got 10%, and there's 15 of us all up— we've held 10% aside strategically to have available for maybe another franchisee to come in, or a corporate team member, I don't know, we'll see. So that was how it came about, it was just sort of me. I rang the CEO and said, 'You know what? I actually think that it's time for you guys to think about selling us'. And he said, 'Okay, I'll talk to the board. But I get it'. And that's what happened. And it sort of all happened pretty quickly after that. I've been in a bit of a whirlwind.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:13:23] Subconsciously, you wrote it down, but not knowing how it'd be done. But it ended up happening. Isn't that amazing?

Leanne Pilkington:    

[00:13:28] It's bizarre, I know! It's really bizarre how— and I'm not really into all that [psychic] stuff— but it happens. You put it out into the universe. That will serve me right!

Tyrone Shum:  

Laing and Simmons underwent a rebranding and changed their logo in recent years. Pilkington expands on the thought process behind that.

Leanne Pilkington:  

[00:13:58] I've rebranded twice in my 25 years at Laing and Simmons. The first time was back in the year 2000, the same year I was promoted to General Manager. And the second time was in 2012, when our new owners came on board, and it was really interesting. It was an interesting process the second time, because the new owners actually said, 'Look, we want to be collaborative with the franchise network, and we want to know what they want'. And so it was really interesting. The way that we did it was we had a big focus group in the city, and we talked it all through, and then we got everybody to write down the things that they wanted to definitely keep, and the things that they didn't want us to have or they wanted us to change. They write down each thing on a Post-it note.

[00:14:44] Because what we were finding in some of these meetings is the loudest people get heard, but that's not always the majority view. One of the things was yellow sign boards. We had a whole lot of people who appeared to want to have blue signboards. And it sounded like that was the majority. But once we actually went through that process and everybody's stuck their ‘keep the yellow sign boards’. And so all of a sudden we have all these Post-it notes down the wall with 'Keep the yellow', 'keep the yellow', 'keep the yellow'. And the loudest people who wanted the blue, just looked at that and looked at me and said, 'Oh, wow, we didn't realise everybody felt that way'. So I thought, 'Wow, that's a really good tool to use in those kinds of meetings'. 

[00:15:31] It's a big, expensive exercise to rebrand. And then we paid for all of the offices to be re-done. And that's expensive, because it's between about... a very small office might be five or $6,000. But it might be 12 or 15 offices, $1,000 an office, and that's just the external signage. So it was an interesting process.

Coming up after the break, we hear Pilkington’s advice regarding agents and their impact on portfolios...

[00:18:33] A good real estate agent can make a difference to the value of your portfolio. So you really need to— and not all property managers are created equal— you've got to make sure.

She describes the first event she held for the Real Women in Real Estate network...

[00:22:19] The very first event was in October 2015, in Sydney, and two weeks beforehand, I sent an email out to a dozen women that I knew that had a lot of women in their team and said, 'Look, this is what I'm doing, if you think it's a good idea'.

She explains her philosophy on how to balance your opinion of yourself versus others’. 

[00:25:00] And then I realised that it was about his stuff. It wasn't about my stuff. It wasn't about what I was capable of. So I think you've got to be really careful when you ask for feedback.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:  

Pilkington shares some of her visions for the Laing and Simmons franchisees and reveals how much goes on behind the scenes.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:16:31] I think we need to provide better support in a lot of areas for the franchise owners. It's very hard to build a rent roll from the time that you start a business, because most of our new franchisees are salespeople, and salespeople aren't detailed. Like in property, their property management is like neither the property management space. So I think that we can support them really effectively in the back end, in that kind of area. I think the area of recruitment— but not just recruitment, the onboarding and ongoing engagement of people, I think, is really important. 

[00:17:20] Real estate business owners, by and large, are small business people, they're really good salespeople, they don't have a lot of actual business skills. And so I think that we need to provide a lot of assistance for them to run better businesses. There's so many opportunities, I've got literally dozens and dozens of different things that we can do. But obviously, I can't do everything at once. So I held a strategy session with my 15 business owners a week ago. And we're all on the same page, which is really super exciting. So I'm just writing my business plan now that I'll deliver to the board at the beginning of next month. And yeah, away we go.

Tyrone Shum:  

With so many property investors that may want to sell, and who want to work with an agency like Laing and Simmons, how can they benefit from that?

[00:18:30] Because a good real estate agent can make a difference to the value of your portfolio. So you really need to— and not all property managers are created equal— you've got to make sure. Now one of the problems with property management is there's a lot of turnover of staff. So you want to try and find somebody who's got a really established career in property management. Ideally, if they're a business owner, or a part business owner, means they're not going to go anywhere, typically. Sit down with them and talk about what your overall goals are, and it might be that the property that you've got right now, you might be better off selling it, and investing in two properties somewhere else, for example. You need to take in the overall yield and the capital growth of your particular property in the area where you are. You need to think about the maintenance requirements. 

[00:19:27] And you've got to make sure that if your agent is advising you on maintenance, that you actually do it. We have some landlords who want to set and forget. They don't want to spend any money on maintaining their property and that's dangerous, from a tenants’ perspective. It's dangerous financially for the landlords because if your agent says to you, ‘Okay, you need to make these changes’. For example, the back step, it's a bit rickety. And you go 'Oh, don't worry about that step'. The tenant falls through. In fact, I've got an example right now. The tenant claimed $470,000 damages from falling through a back step. And your insurance premiums go through the roof. That's one tip for property investors. If you don't have landlord insurance, please go and get it.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:20:23] Yes, absolutely. It's a must. It's a must.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:20:24] Yeah, it is. And have a look at the domestic violence provisions in those insurance policies, because the obligations on landlords and agents under the domestic violence provisions changed in New South Wales not that long ago. So make sure your insurance covers that. And also have a look at how it would treat you during a pandemic, if you don't get any rent. So that was an interesting time for all of our landlords as well. You need to be actively looking at your portfolio, and you can grow it much more effectively if you have conversations with your agents and get recommendations from your agent about what next. And if your agent can't help you in that space, go and find a new agent.

Tyrone Shum:   

Turning to mindset, Pilkington shares if she had any mentors who coached her along the way.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:21:54] My very first business mentor is now the chairman of Laing and Simmons. So yeah, I keep my people close. But from a mindset, interestingly, I've mentioned that I started the Real Women in Real Estate network. And I started that because I was nagged to death about it, from a couple of girls that worked for me. Because I've been around for so long, I've got so many connections, and they were like, 'Lee, we want you to share those connections'. 

[00:22:19] The very first event was in October 2015, in Sydney, and two weeks beforehand, I sent an email out to a dozen women that I knew that had a lot of women in their team and said, 'Look, this is what I'm doing, if you think it's a good idea'. 65 people turned up to the first event. The first event was a sellout. And I was still standing there going, 'I don't get it. I don't understand, what the, what, I don't understand. Why? What do people want?' But I could see that there was a need. 

[00:22:48] And so we sort of quickly went from one event in Sydney to literally... we've done events everywhere except for Tasmania, that's the only state we haven't done an event. Even New Zealand and Los Angeles, would you believe? We've got over 2,000 members. And I didn't think that I needed it. I really didn't think that I needed it. But what I've found is that there's a core group of these women that have become really close friends, and they're incredible women. They're coaches or they're trainers or they're business owners, they're very skilled, caring, intelligent women, and they are my go-to girls now. If I've got a really big decision that I'm struggling with, usually I'm a bit closed, I'm pretty comfortable with my own decision making typically. But if I've got something that I'm really struggling with, depending on what it is, there's a few of them that I will reach out to depending on what the problem is, just to get another perspective. 

[00:23:58] But I'm also naturally optimistic. And whilst I do get down in the dumps from time to time, I know that it won't last long because I won't let it last long. I say to people that I give myself an uppercut, get on with it, girl, get on with it! I'm able to pull myself out of the funk. And I get into them! Even with this whole lead up to buying the business. I spoke to a business mentor who I really care about and value, and he thought it was a terrible idea for me to get involved in the business. I felt really helpless after speaking to him. I went into a depression for a week or so. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where to go next. I just didn't know what to do. 

[00:25:00] And then I realised that it was about his stuff. It wasn't about my stuff. It wasn't about what I was capable of. So I think you've got to be really careful when you ask for feedback. Firstly, if you don't value the person, don't value the feedback. If you wouldn't ask them for advice, don't take their negativity. But even when you do ask for feedback— take it on board, think about it, and then choose. Does it fit or doesn't it? Because nobody really knows what's going on in your head. Nobody really knows what you're capable of. Sometimes you don't even know until you have a crack. 

[00:25:46] Do things that fill your cup. For me, I need to exercise, I need to go to the gym, I need to do that sort of stuff. And maybe go for a massage. I just managed to pull myself out of it. I don't know, I wish I could be more prescriptive about how I do it, but I do it often.

[00:26:33] Don't eat junk. Look after your diet, all that stuff. I've won a number of awards recently, Most Influential Woman in Property, Thought Leader awards, and all of that sort of stuff. And so people make the mistake of looking at me— I speak on stage quite regularly now, and I'm comfortable doing it. I wasn't always but I am now— and people make the mistake of looking at me and thinking, 'Leanne wouldn't have those negative voices in her head', or 'Leanne wouldn't second guess herself' or 'Leanne wouldn't feel like an imposter'. Excuse my language, but bullshit. Leanne feels all of those things. So don't look at anybody and think that they don't have things that scare them, or things that they need to work on, or things that intimidate them— we all do. We all do.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:27:30] Wow, that is very, very inspiring. And I think a lot of people, a lot of listeners will be able to take that away and go wow, if Leanne can do it. I can do it too.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:27:41] #IfSheCanICanToo! That was my hashtag I used when I first became president of the Real Estate Institute, because I'm only the second female president in 115 years, and I'm the first president they've ever asked to stay for a second term. So that was my hashtag in the early days, #IfSheCanICanToo. Because it's so true, right.

Tyrone Shum:  

She delves into her favourite books on entrepreneurship and mindset, and makes some great recommendations for the next time you find yourself in Vegas!

Leanne Pilkington:  

[00:28:19] I love Delivering Happiness by Tony Shea, the late Tony Shea. How tragic was that? Oh, wow. I was lucky enough to go and visit Zappos when I was in Vegas a couple of years ago. So that was an incredible experience. And I would suggest to anybody who's interested in customer service, grab that book Delivering Happiness. And if you ever get to Vegas, reach out to the team at Zappos because they do organise tours and it's definitely worthwhile. So that would be my all time favourite. 

[00:28:55] And Carol Dweck's book on fixed mindsets and growth mindsets. That's a really, really good one as well. It makes you realise why some people are... for me, I've got a growth mindset, but other people look at why they can't do something. Whereas I look at how I can. So that's a really good one as well.

Tyrone Shum:  

If she met herself 10 years ago, what would Pilkington say to herself?

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:30:03] ‘You have no idea how much you're capable of’. Yeah, absolutely. I never saw myself here. I never saw myself here. I never saw myself as a leader. I never saw myself winning awards like I've been winning. Just go for it. You're capable of so much more than you believe.

Tyrone Shum:  

Heading in the other direction, where does she see herself in five years from now?

Leanne Pilkington:  

[00:31:08] I have got a brand that's growing. I've got a shareholder base that is also growing and happy and engaged. I have multiple revenue streams for the business. And I have a lot of happy people around me.

Tyrone Shum:  

[00:31:54] Last question for you, Leanne, is how much of your success is due to your skill, hard work, and intelligence? And how much of it is because of luck?

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:32:08] Well, the harder I work, the luckier I get. And certainly, I do believe that there is an element of luck for everybody. But my success is down to taking opportunities when they're presented to me. If I go back to when I was a recruiter, I was only there for maybe a month or two and the manager of that operation left. And I was approached and said, 'Would you like to be the manager?' And I'm like, 'Jesus, I've just been here for five minutes! I don't even know the job. No, I can't do that'. 

[00:32:47] And that was a mistake. I should have actually said, 'Yeah, let's do it'. And so moving forward in my career, that's what I've always done. I've gone 'Yeah, I'm going to have a crack, even though I don't know that I can do it. I don't even know how I'm going to do it'. But you say yes. And you work it out.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:33:06] And that's the thing. It sounds like the people who actually offered you those positions had confidence in you. So if they have confidence in you, then you're going to be able to action it, because you'll figure it out.

Leanne Pilkington:   

[00:33:17] Yeah, that's such an important point, right? If you value the people around you, and you think that they're smart business people, and they're saying to you, 'We want you to be the general manager', or 'We want you to be the president'... a lot of people do see more in you than you see in yourself. So believe them. And have a crack.

Thank you to Leanne Pilkington, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.