Michael Zalle
September 8, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Michael Zalle. Michael is the founder and CEO of Yellow Bird. Find out how Yellow Bird is transforming the EHS industry and how it all got started on The Jay Allen Show.
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speaks with Michael Zalle. Michael is the founder and CEO of Yellow Bird. Find out how Yellow Bird is transforming the EHS industry and how it all got started on The Jay Allen Show.
[00:00:03] spk_0: this show is brought to you by safety. Hello and welcome to the J. Allen Show. We're broadcasting live from the safety FM's studios in Orlando, Florida Thank you for coming back and hanging out with us and seeing exactly what we have going on on this side of the planet. Perez. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Was he have seen over the last week a lot of craziness going on here? It's safety FM. A lot of new shows have been signed. We discuss that on the safety FM many episode on Friday. So if he did take a listen, you'll hear of all the new shows that air coming this direction. Also, we have announced as a Friday it was shortly after the safety FM. Many episode came out that we are now starting safety FM dot UK. More information about that will be available shortly will be on the lookout. There will have more discussions of exactly what's going on. Well, today is going to be a pretty interesting episode. Today. We have the CEO and founder of Yellow Bird. What is Yellow Bird? You might be asking? There are a match Environmental Health and Safety Professional company So opposed to me giving you some giant spill at the very beginning of the episode. How about we just do this? Let's get into the conversation that I had today with Michael Zale here on the jail in jail. So I have asked starting off because you did not get to the world of safety during the normal standard process that most people get Teoh. So what drove to this sector?
[00:01:48] spk_1: Um, it's a great question. The honest answer is, is I have been in other areas of technology my whole life, and it felt cold, and it felt less impactful than this particular area. And so as I was in tech and serving the higher risk environments, I realized, I guess it felt felt good. It felt right for me to, um, dedicate my my technology background to DHS just cause I really am a I try to be a a conscious capitalist, as they call it, or somebody you actually make make the world a better place through what I dio.
[00:02:34] spk_0: Well, I mean, this is going to be realistic. A lot of people do not find the world of safety to be. Well, let's see a beautiful one to entertain or even to go into. So as you started, you started taking a look into it. What was it that kind of drove you that said Okay, this makes sense from what you were doing to going into this. I mean, there had to be a trigger effect that said, this makes sense because of X.
[00:02:56] spk_1: Yeah, a great question. The honest answer is that I don't know if there was a moment other than I know that most safety operations DHS operations are underfunded and understaffed, and but yet they still hold all the responsibility and obligations of the insurance carriers of their senior management of their leadership. And so it's a high pressure environment. And so my my first thought was, If I could help change the way it's done, make it more efficient. And in Canada, Lee, maybe take some of the stress off of the HSE world because I do understand it. Well, uh, maybe it would become a more fun place to be because there's a lot of times that this is not a fun role to be in.
[00:03:46] spk_0: That's 100% true in regards that it's not fun all the time. It can be fun, but you have to be able be able to handle a lot of pressure at the same time to But But size is you're doing this and let's kind of make sure that I talk about it cause we're gonna get into a little bit more about Yellow Bird and how it all went down. But you're not only doing this, you were in multiple positions across multiple companies. So what's the secret? Do you have extra time? Is there an extra hour? You get a day that most people don't get. I mean, you have to tell us what's going on your not sleeping. I mean, what's happening here.
[00:04:18] spk_1: You know what? That's it. I have always been this person. I run really quickly, and I like to get involved in different things. My my co founder here we follow a Her name is Michelle Tinsley. She's ah, Intel executive, former until executive. She always says that, um, I am Ah, maybe not quite as deep into things. So I switched channels really, really quickly. Is
[00:04:47] spk_0: this something? Are you sure you wanna admit this on the air. I mean, other people are going to hear this. I just want to be sure
[00:04:51] spk_1: here. Oh, yeah. You have to understand your who you are. You know, I can have I can go deep if I have to, But at the end of the day, and I'm good at it, I mean, I'm actually pretty good in a spreadsheet. And Aiken, I can read a balance sheet, and I can talk to the board and run board meetings and all that stuff, but my energy gets really sparked when I can of I do sprints, not marathons when it comes to business. And so as long as I'm I'm using my my superpowers towards towards, um solving the individual issues within each of the companies as they occur, or and unnecessarily as acre. But when when most dire or most hot or most pressing, then I'm able to do it. But the honest answer is, is that I do at some fires burn. I truly dio I, um I I prioritize, and that's the easiest way of saying it.
[00:05:50] spk_0: So there's these other businesses that you're in. If you don't mind me asking, of course, are they tied into some of the stuff related to safety as well, Or the other ventures that have absolutely nothing to do with safety or how do they actually look?
[00:06:03] spk_1: They are One is a satellite communications company and, um, very much focused on high risk environments. So we serve the oil and gas, uh, the construction, the mining pretty much off grid, if you think of it from that perspective and emergency management. So FEMA, um, state and local government, things like that. So it's all kind of human and health related anyhow, So which is how I got I've been doing that for 20 years. It's It's a very good business. It's a, um it's an energizing business, and it is highly technical. So I enjoy that. And yes, so it is somewhat related, the other core business that my wife actually owns, Technically, um, and she actually doesn't that she's running it, and I'm very I'm not involved with it. Is you
[00:06:52] spk_0: better clear of that? Technically, that way.
[00:06:58] spk_1: Well, and she gives me, She gives me grief about this because the name of the company is MBC Industrial, which are my initials Michael. Brendan. And because I created it as a holding company a long time ago for various side projects, and we license the technology. It's a sandals, sandbag technology for floods. And it was one of these things that I just knew that we could take it to market. And, um, she actually owns 51% of the company. And so from a from a government perspective, that's meaningful. Ah, Woman owned small business, that kind of stuff. So is my name and her, her company. So I worked for her on that, um, on that business, but yeah, that again, environmental health and safety, floods and spill response or the areas of that business. And so I've been in this in these circles for over 20 years, um, dealing in in seeing the issues of VHS, and that's kind of what has brought me into founding over.
[00:07:59] spk_0: So when you decided to found Yellow Bird, what pain points are you seeing in the market place that you go? Okay, This makes sense. Now to backtrack a little bit. Explain to people what yellow bird is, because that's gonna be part of the question, Of course. And then explain the pain points that you said Okay, this is a need inside of the market.
[00:08:15] spk_1: Yeah, that's Ah, you know, I I answered this question a lot. You know, we've raised capital and we're growing the business and all that kind of stuff. So that's you're asking. Ah, very venture capital. Kind of a question. You know, what is the pain you're solving? But, um, it's it's the most important question, you know, they call a product market fit, right. What? What are you doing to solve a gap in the marketplace and for us? What we're doing is we're making experts accessible to groups that may or may not have the budget or ability to fulfill those expert needs. And so, from Andy hs perspective, and since this is ah, you know, safety program are related in safety, I don't have to go into all the various certificates and so forth. But if you're like a has whopper or you're A C H, um, that's a very different thing than a generalized, um, see SP or BSP or a general safety person. And so a lot of organizations are running as they should be by generalists, yet they still need specialists for their various efforts. And so I'll give you an example of a construction company where, you know, you have a general safety team and they oversee construction sites all across the country or all across town or multiple sites. And then you have a traveling generalised or a traveling specialist in construction that goes from site to site and when they're not there, there, empowering the or knighting or whatever you wanna call it their, um, their general contractor, foreman. And so what I envision in that scenario is saying we have a project and we know the high risk parts of that project are at, you know, turn up and turn down or when we have heavy equipment coming in and out. And I'd like to have a safety professional on that side at those times and then go on Yellow Bird And they can say, I've got an opportunity. I've got a need for somebody who's familiar with heavy equipment safety on. I need somebody on Tuesday. Um, I want somebody with 15 years of construction experience, and that person arrives there there for that project, and then they go home and they don't have to keep somebody who's ah six figure employees at every single site. You can have specialists that come in. I calm. Sharpshooters versus, ah, first shot gunners, we bring in shop sharpshooters and it could be anything from Cove in 19. Um, you know, return toe work where you do safety assessments and surface testing. Two, I need a My insurance company said I can't get my underwriting until I have a safety plan written. And I don't have a safety person. I'm a small organization and my HR persons, my safety person. And so I wanna bring on somebody who knows how to write a proper safety plan for me. So those are the various things that you can do through Yellow Bird.
[00:11:06] spk_0: Now you referenced in particular qualifications that the person has toe have. Now, how do you go about number one verifying the qualifications? And how do you vet Bill? How do you vet the people? It Let's just go with that angle.
[00:11:18] spk_1: Yeah, no, again. I keep saying great question cause yeah, I love talking to people who actually understand the issues. You know, we have to be better. And that's what I That's my mantra, is we have to be better than going to a staffing agency or temporary agency or going onto a ah, job board aggregator. And so we have a four step process. The first process is obviously on the platform, people filling out their background. Then they check what search they have in their industry and anything that makes them special and unique. Um, and that includes geography. And that includes industries of interest beyond what they've already done. Like, say, somebody is in a motor across and they say, I wanna I wanna, um I am very familiar with safety and motorcross and I would like to be on site in a motor cross event. That's, you know, it's a unique app, but it would work over, So that's the first step. Then they upload all their Certs and we validate them. Um, and then then we do a background check and then we do an interview, and then they are match ready. Um, that process takes generally between week 22 weeks. We're trying to get it faster. We're trying Teoh, trying to make it as painless as it composite Lee be while making sure that we've checked for not just the checking the box, but also some of the soft skills. And for us, I think that's the area of biggest concern. You can validate Certs. You can validate education. You can validate people's backgrounds. Do they have a felony? Are they, um, and you know, I mean, people have lives that they've lived. So just because you have something in your background does not necessarily mean you will be disqualified. We do analysis, and we use a third party to help us assess that of, You know, somebody happened to have a D u I when they were 18 years old and there 47 now. And they've had a perfect record. They're perfectly capable of being a ah safety professional on our platform as
[00:13:23] spk_0: just Means they had a crappy lawyer. Let's be realistic.
[00:13:26] spk_1: Absolutely. You know, But if you are, you know, um, something really bad and I won't go into the detail, but something really bad. And it was recent and and we may just say I'm sorry, but based on the background and so forth in our in our qualifications, you you don't fit to be a over professional right now. We wish you well.
[00:13:49] spk_0: Now, will you Will you give them a period of time where you tell them they can come back at ext after X amount of time? Or is that even not even part of the of the conversation?
[00:13:56] spk_1: It depends on what it is we've had. We've had people that we we wish them well, and we do wish them well. But we they're not going to be on our platform for various reasons. Um, and candidly, some of those reasons can be, um, can be soft skill reasons we've had.
[00:14:13] spk_0: You did. Now. You did say something, though, that kind of I looked at the sequence and I said, That's kind of different than most do You said that you verify search, then you do the background check and then you do the interview. Why do you do it in that format, opposed to interview, search background or backgrounds inserts, Because you already have an initial expense as the person's reaching out to you without you even knowing how they're going to be able to interact when they get to ah to ah organization,
[00:14:41] spk_1: we do. We've changed that quite a bit, and it's not hard and fast right now, so they're um, we do have a preliminary introductory call right now. That's the very first thing that we dio. However, the full on interview and background check is a little later in the process. In the reason for that is there is a trepidation with Howard changing the marketplace, that we want people to feel comfortable with what they're doing and make sure that they know that we're not some fly by night organization or a scam. And we're not, you know, a staffing agency and wolves cause because a lot of people think we are a staffing agency, which we are, absolutely not.
[00:15:24] spk_0: Now I have to ask the question, because this is going to be one of those weird things that I'm not sure on, what you've heard, or if this question has come up before, I'm sure, probably as, but you're saying that they have to have certifications now, some of the best safety people that I have met some of them don't even have Certs. They have experience. Why the certification angle?
[00:15:43] spk_1: You know, it's it's an interesting statement, and the reality is is that you can get on our platform without having Certs. However, we do Look, you know, you have to have some parameters. What? On one second? Okay, quickly apologize. We'll be able to edit this. I need to get some water that I just texted my son and said, Go run and get me some water. Um, those who are none prepared suffer. So yeah, the best people in the world, um, that that off any trade or background may or may not have asserts, however, education and way of setting a baseline and guideline is very, very important. They and we're trying to figure out a way you bring up a really valid point in a really interesting point because and I'd be interested in having this discussion. Maybe not on on the air, but
[00:16:44] spk_0: why, If it's not on the year, doesn't count.
[00:16:46] spk_1: Yeah, OK, well, way maybe we will have this discussion. Because if you are looking for somebody in a professional environment, um, there and then this one of those philosophical questions that I've always had about safety in general that if you're looking for a attorney and accountant, a lawyer, you know, turning a medical professional, even a nurse or somebody in the medical field, they all have various certifications and have had to go through their educational process. And I know a lot of people question this, but the reality is, is that if you can read rules and regs and kind of set guidelines of performance objectives around environmental, health and safety and environmental is a big part of this play. A big part of this industry? Um, how If you don't request Certs, do you at make sure that you after you're getting a professional?
[00:17:46] spk_0: Is that the question for me? Because here's the fun part. What I look. What I look at is there's a couple of different things because I can go into an organization and I'm just going to speak about some of the things that have been able to dio where I can actually take a look around and maybe be at the work site and work there and have somebody who has tons of experience but does not have certifications. Does that make them the best person the world debatable in regards and how you want to take a look at it? But I can also get somebody who's brand new that has just acquired. We'll just say some letters opposed to me, kind of going after an organization that has letter letters behind their name and they might not have the same understanding. Is this person who has been there for a while based on them having an understanding of the system? Does that make them better than the person that's already been there and established abs? I would be
[00:18:27] spk_1: absolutely, no, absolutely not. And you bring up And that is the philosophical question that we are constantly asking ourselves because this is not you've asked a really important question and a valid question. Sorry I have a tickle in my throat is making this.
[00:18:46] spk_0: If this normally happens when I put pressure on people's good, least it's working.
[00:18:51] spk_1: So one of the challenges that we have is on a platform where you are ingesting people through an application and trying to make sure that they are capable and qualified. How do you do that without having that experience that you're speaking of? Um, there's no question. I mean, you take you, take my grandfather who, um, if he didn't graduate high school or if he did graduate high school, he barely did, and he'd never went to college but he was a very successful business person. And you take somebody with an M B A coming out of Harvard, and I would put my grandfather against that guy any day of the week to run a business successfully and grow. However, on an interview, there's no doubt that that Harvard MBA is gonna get the interview before my grandfather would. And the question is, Is that if you were trying to figure out how to create a mentor ship for young entrepreneurs to say, um, you've got Mike's grandfather and you've got Mr M. B A. Over here with three years of experience Post college, Which one do you pair up? This young entrepreneur with nine out of 10 and probably 10 out of 10 would get the N b A. To place him with that person. And the reality is that my grandfather probably would give them better practical advice. So that is a type of thing that we think about of what are the AI and other matching things that we're building into the tech that we can pull out to make it a better match? And that is actually what my chief product officer is focused on on the technology side because what we're doing is relatively easy, man. Also relatively common in a traditional, you know, staffing agency model or even temporary agency model. What we're trying to do is ah, look at years of experience, the industry that they're in, the geography that they're in and from that create some kind of a ranking system that is better to match them with an opportunity rather than just OK, you know, you got this certain you got these, you know, alphabet soup after your name and you went to this great college and you're in this geography, and so we match you. That's the challenge that I'm having
[00:21:17] spk_0: and the only reason that I bring this up because we see some weird scenarios out there. And let's kind of take out of the portion of people coming to you. I'm just gonna talk about this in general, where you might see an ad that's being ran for somebody for a company that's looking for somebody who has a CSP ah, masters degree and they're starting to pay them out at $18 an hour. I mean, you chuckle and it's OK, but that is That's the reality of what's out there. And there's no way that a master's degree in a CSP should qualify you for eating dollars an hour.
[00:21:49] spk_1: Absolutely. And that shows the lack of sophistication of the hiring manager that is not a right that is not a reflection on the person. And there's not a reflection. In fact, what they should be getting is feedback from the marketplace saying, You're out of your mind. Um, and that's the other thing that I like and I know I'm not supposed to bring us back to uber, but that's what I like about you. Albert is we are able to get a premium rate for premium skills and the reason I say that it's not that people are gonna pay more, but you don't have to pay somebody $90,000 a year. If you want to have somebody come in and you pay them $3000 to do the job that you need done at the time, you need it done. It's a win win, and that's again. It's not employment engagement, but that does go back to that whole thing of well, we don't really have the budget for a safety professional, but we need we know we need to hire, um So I guess I'll put it out there at $18 an hour is like, you're out of your mind. You're not gonna get anybody worth of salt. And if you dio that person realistically is, um, probably not the person you want,
[00:22:58] spk_0: So let's going to flip the script a little bit on some of this. So let's talk about how this whole process goes from, Let's say, the person that's trying to acquire the safety professional to come in. So I am a business owner. I need a safety person for X job. How do I contact you and get the information on what needs to be done? So I say, I'm looking for somebody in the transportation business needs to teach some drivers best best practices in driving techniques. What can you find me?
[00:23:28] spk_1: That's awesome. That's by the way I love. That scenario is not one that I've used very often, but it's a great scenario. Um, so the way it happens and it's really, really easy, which is our whole goal. My whole ambition in life is to make this a simple as humanly possible. Why can't we be azizia? Snooper? I know every goes. Oh, well, uber you know, that's Ah, whoa, dollar turn and burn industry. It doesn't have to be that technology can be used on sophisticated people. So you go on to go yo labour dot com Just like it sounds geo yellow bird and you sign up and there's a company area and there's a professional area. So it says, Do you need people or are you looking toe do gig work? E. H s work. So I need people. It asked a few questions. It doesn't have to get super sophisticated. You know what to say. I need somebody with X Y z Certs. You could just say I have a logistics company. I have training to be done. And by the way, I'm gonna give you a great scenario. I have training to be done at 10 different locations, and I need to be able to upload my training materials and have 10 different trainers go out to those sites next week.
[00:24:39] spk_0: That sounds about the logistics companies on how that would work. Sit your pretty spot on.
[00:24:43] spk_1: Yes. Yeah, And there's only one way of doing that. Traditionally, it's either send it off to the general managers and have them read it. Of which everybody's hearing this Charlie Brown teacher want, want, want or you get independent consultants that you've gone through and just basically tried through associations or so forth. Or you go to a staffing agency and say, I need temporary staff that understand safety. Um, and they'll give you okay, we should be able to find somebody in six day weeks that, for all those locations in the final way, is you, Mr Safety Person responsible, who's asking the question? Better get in your car and start driving from site to site. And that's the way it's done today, either driving or airplane, neither of which are being done today given Cove. It, um, which has given us some tailwind as a company, which will probably also address at some point.
[00:25:37] spk_0: So that's the way that it set up on. And then how do's the pricing structure work? So you base it off of what they're looking for is there are a raid, or how does that come about? I'm not gonna ask for specifics on what you're charging, but how does. How does that aspect work?
[00:25:51] spk_1: So we do a statement of work. We validate the statement of work with the quiet so they upload what they need. And, um, it says, Well, I have Ah, you know, we have a 20 page manual. We're gonna have three sessions of 20 people in each. And we need somebody to come and do those three sessions over a period of, ah, one day while given a real easy examples, one or two days. Um, and you know, we want somebody who's familiar with the truck safety and driving procedures Safe, safe driving procedures, preferably somebody with X y Z, um, you know, understanding we'll leave it at that. So then what we do is we go out. We are system assesses. What a going rate for a person like that would be, um, and it is based on, you know, basically, hours could be traveling hours. It could be traveling materials and hours, depending upon what the need is. But in this case, with training, it's basically traveling hours, and then it comes back and we validate with the company that is this an acceptable number per location and if they say yes. We send out essentially an A P B. We send out a text to the people on the platform that qualify and says We have an opportunity for you at X location. Um, on Wednesday, are you available? Yes or no? Do you have any questions? Yes or no? And they say yes and they're available. And yes, I have a question and we asked what the question is and we facilitate that. And four. So that's how it's done in each of the sites. But just done very quickly, usually could be done at all the sites We've done many, many sites, um, within days, which is great. Um, again, time is money and, um, distances money and we're saving all of those. And for that yellow bird gets a percentage of the rate. So, um, we charge basically X plus, it's a cost plus structure, and where the money is saved for the company is time and actual physical hours. Because in a training environment, traditionally they'll have a minimum. They will try and put you into a bucket and were Our rate generally is about 50 to 60% lower in the traditional training consultant
[00:28:19] spk_0: Okay, so then everything that you're saying here is really heavily based on algorithm is how it pulls the information for you to be able to pride an estimate to the customer. Is that correct?
[00:28:28] spk_1: It sounds, yes, but it sounds more sophisticated than it is right now. Again, we're smallest or small group. You know, we launched in January were in about 600% growth rate right now, which is incredible. Um, and I'm very blessed to say that especially in the time of endemic. Um, but much of this is being physically done through a team of people, and my programming team should be ready to have it completely. Um, um, through a, uh, system to a process by the end of the year.
[00:29:03] spk_0: So so are you saying are you saying then essentially, it's gonna go out to like, a bed system similar to what, like an uber on the left would do. Where would he actually go? Out and goes? You've been waiting this long and you fall into the qualification. So we're gonna offer it to this. You first. You say yea or nay. And if they say no, it goes to the next person,
[00:29:19] spk_1: uh, somewhat. And I don't mean to be evasive, So it's a lot easier with an uber, because you either you have a certain size of car and you have distance from the location. That's really their parameters. Um, I I say this in the investment community, and I don't mean disrespectful to be disrespectful but to be in uber driver Union driver's license in a car in a pulse. And, um, now they do make sure that you meet a lot of other criteria. But the reality is it's a relatively low bar, and that's true with a lot of other, you know, gig, economy platforms for us. We don't just look for the amount of time on this is on the platform. Um, we don't just look for your asserts and background. We we look for the whole person. So the machine learning algorithm is, um, you know, it's a really sophisticated deal, but, you know, my chief product officer comes from eBay. Um, and we're very confident that we're gonna be able to do this better than anybody else,
[00:30:19] spk_0: right? But you also have to look at it, too, from the standpoint that somebody's going to ask the question of How do I get How do I get first dibs? I mean, there's just no way that people are not going to ask that question.
[00:30:28] spk_1: Be the best for the gig,
[00:30:30] spk_0: baby. What are the qualifications to be the best for the gig? That's what I'm trying. So it has to qualify you somehow. Because if you're saying it's not the longest person on the platform, so then it has to be based on something.
[00:30:41] spk_1: Yeah, I know. I mean,
[00:30:41] spk_0: I'm just going to have a better understanding of it.
[00:30:43] spk_1: No, of course. Of course you are. And I and I respect that so well, the best for the gig and that. Let me let me define that for you. So we're so we're clear. Um, yes. We want the oldest, the longest people on the platform to be first. If everything is equal. Yes, of course we do. But if you have a welding background, if you've worked for a pipe fitter for 20 years and you've recently retired and you have a pipe fitting experience and you've only been on for one week, but you meet all the criteria because you are the best match for my welding safety training and you are a mile from the location. You are the best for the gig, and that comes first. And if I lose people because they've been on the platform for a long time, but they and they haven't had a gig because they weren't the best fit. Um, yet it's a shame, but we have to have the best fit first.
[00:31:39] spk_0: Okay, so does Is there a fee for a person to want to come onto the platform or it's only a portion of the revenue share?
[00:31:46] spk_1: Currently, there is no fee on, and I say currently and we have
[00:31:49] spk_0: GUY was going to say You did say currently, so I want to throw that out there.
[00:31:54] spk_1: There is currently no fee were not planning on adding a fee for the near future. If anybody is interested in doing this, it's a good idea to do it sooner rather than later. Um, because as we scale and as we grow, um, we are going to be adding some value, add services and value, add things for professionals. One of the things that we do offer his insurance. Um, for professionals, we give insurance to every professional that is on the platform. So when you're doing a job for us, you actually get occupational accident coverage. So if you get injured, what you're doing a job for free over you actually are covered by insurance, which is very nice. Um, and we are looking into a deeper insurance strategy around that that still keeps us within the law of independent contractors, which I have.
[00:32:45] spk_0: What about error? Intermission?
[00:32:47] spk_1: Hey, Aaron. Omission Insurance. And that's the insurance of what I was referring to. We are in the middle of having those discussions right now currently,
[00:32:57] spk_0: well, and that's a good I mean, it's a It's a good question to ask, and let's be realistic about it. If I go into an organization and I'm doing well, that's kind of go back for a moment. I go into an organization. I was contract ID by Yellow Bird, and I'm doing warg red location acts. If something goes wrong, who's on the hook?
[00:33:16] spk_1: Well, depending what defining something goes wrong first.
[00:33:19] spk_0: Okay, so let's say, for instance, I recommend for you to do this thing, which is entirely wrong.
[00:33:25] spk_1: All right.
[00:33:26] spk_0: And then we move forward. Who does the client come after
[00:33:30] spk_1: everybody?
[00:33:33] spk_0: You've been in the States for way too long,
[00:33:35] spk_1: thin in that number. It honestly, that is the answer. So when When an organization there, general liability insurance and their general insurance does cover, um, insurance for their subcontractors, However, and that's one the reasons we are talking to about errors and omissions. Insurance. The good news is, is that we're not a typical group who, um, does the physical work. We're doing recommendation work we're doing in intelligence work. And so we're presenting a recommendation. My are professionals are presenting a recommendation to the company for their assessment and discussion. And so that's an important thing because the person doing the work still has a responsibility. Um, that said, if you have somebody who says who comes on and they tell you to do something completely wrong, um, then there isn't There is an obligation there. There's no question about that.
[00:34:33] spk_0: I just want to make sure that we're clear there, because I know that that's going to actually come up to some of the people that have that are hearing this for the first time. Now, my question to you. Are you in all 48 states that are connected. Or you on all 50 Or how do you have it set up? Currently,
[00:34:48] spk_1: we're in all 50 states and territories. No, I'm not gonna territories all 50 states
[00:34:53] spk_0: territories. Really this bomber SaiPan's So you. So you're in all 50 states in some of the territories. Then
[00:35:06] spk_1: what we we actually again? We launched in January. We launched in Phoenix, Arizona, and the goal of the launch was to do a product market fit, figure out the unit economics, make sure that the market So on this what we see in it and we had such explosive growth that we actually opened up other markets and we had to call people and say We really are Phoenix based, but if you'd like to be on the platform, that's great. Texas is really hot for us right now. The Deco's Dakota's air really hot for us right now. We do have somebody every every state in the union right now. All of that said, our marketing is very much targeted at the moment. We're doing some national work like this and and doing national campaigning and program awareness. But we're seeing hot spots with gigs. And the odd thing is, it's mostly companies that are based in one location and need Giggs and other locations so they could be all over the place if that's the interesting part of this program.
[00:36:10] spk_0: Now, right now, when somebody actually does contact you and say, Hey, we need a pro to come in, Is there a certain amount of time that they could be locked into a organization for or is a kind of unlimited, depending on the client's needs?
[00:36:22] spk_1: Um, it depends on the mutual agreement to that. So the model is is that we have no issue at all with an organization saying, while we, you know, John came out here or Jane came out here and we really liked the work that she did and she was excellent. And we when we have a reassessment in 30 days to see how we've been doing based on her recommendations, we would like her to come back out, then go on. The Colbert asked for her specifically and great. Um, we have some gigs. We have one that is just going about seven months, Um, and it is on site and people go where that's a staffing program. It's actually not. We're building every two weeks, but, um, it is a sober traditional, and they've chosen not to hire this person full time. A lot of organizations don't want W two employees. They want to be able to say We want a consultant to come out, be on site for the duration of this three weeks for the duration of this four months, whatever it happens to be and know that person could be available for us. But should they not be, um, that you have other professionals that would match the criteria
[00:37:35] spk_0: Very interesting on how the whole program works. So if where do you see this going into the future? I mean, what is what do you see is going to end up happening? I mean, of course, I'm asking the crystal ball question because that's normally how this goes.
[00:37:47] spk_1: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. Is one that iss I. It's we are right now very much focused on VHS, and but what we're doing is professional matching, and as we get better, we've already applied for a couple of patents in our matching algorithm in process. Um, we see the tech being able to be leveraged into other professional, um, niche markets. Now, do we want to go along, go after being dentistry or ah, lawyers or doctors? No, I don't see that. Um, you never know. I never say never. But what we do like is being deep into it, a segment that maybe underserved I c E h s as being a very by bifurcated industry. It's got segments all over the place. There's a lot of 1 to 2 men person consulting firms, and there's a lot of retirees. And that's what I'm passionate about is transitional workers who want to stay in the game and honestly, are probably the best at the game. Um, folks who have been doing this for 25 30 years and they're like, I want to be on my fishing boat. But I wouldn't mind coming out to sites ever, you know, on my terms and doing this work. So to answer a question, we're going to grow and we're going to keep offering some value added services along the way. Listen to our customers, and I don't know what the end game necessarily looks like. Everybody thinks that we're building this to sell the business. I'm saying that we're building this to create something really wonderful. I'm young. I have a young family. I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this, and I'm loving it. So that's that's my barometer personally.
[00:39:34] spk_0: So, you know, I'm gonna have to ask the very strange question on where did the name come from?
[00:39:38] spk_1: You know, it's a great and it's a great question, and I enjoyed the question. Um, the original name was horrible and
[00:39:46] spk_0: oh, so let's hear it. Let's hear What's the original name? Zip
[00:39:50] spk_1: E H s.
[00:39:52] spk_0: Oh, you are absolutely right. I e
[00:39:57] spk_1: made it up and I was sitting. I was literally sitting in an uber when I made it up, and it was horrible. But
[00:40:04] spk_0: you're not blaming the uber for this, are you? I'm giving
[00:40:08] spk_1: credit to the ever because, um, he was one of the people who inspired me. It was a colonel in the foreign Air Force and he retired and he was driving uber, and I was thinking to myself, This guy could be doing and no egg and no offense to the uber drivers of the world, but you could be doing so much more to share his knowledge. And that was one of the things that sparked my sparked my thoughts. And then, of course, I went down the what? I call it kind of an idea. Uh, and so some documents still have zippy hs on them from our our lawyers.
[00:40:41] spk_0: Burn them, burn that number. Turkey. Oh,
[00:40:44] spk_1: so, yellow bird, we went through a branding exercise. And, you know, if you ever done it with a marketing agency, it's really fun. It's really fun. You know, they ask you the strangest questions, you know? What do you want people to feel when they're using you? The company? You know what? What inspires you? You know, what animal do you relate to? You know, you know all these very bizarre questions, and, you know, they're trying to use an animated objects combined with an action or action words combined with a color, all these various things and yellow being this color of safety and caution. And, um, we thought it it could work in the yellow, um, aspects of it. The bird was soaring and freedom and little image to the canary in the coal mine um, back in the day, our very first safety warrior out there who lost their lives when there was, uh, lack of oxygen in the coal mines of. So that's kind of how it came. And to be really honest with you, I didn't like I didn't like it at all. I was at dinner with my at the time, my 11 year old and my 15 year old or 14 year old and a time, and I and my wife and I were talking about all the various names. As soon as I said Yellow Bird, all three of them looked at me and go, That's it. Nah, that doesn't work. I don't like
[00:42:07] spk_0: it. No, I mean it. Definitely get it Brings attention. I mean it. It sticks out. When you see it, you definitely sticks out. It's not. There's no doubt what it is the moment you see it.
[00:42:17] spk_1: Thank you. And I'm very proud of it now. And I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that I didn't see it immediately because everybody else apparently did. But, um, you know, I'm I'm a learning type of a person. I am committing it, committed to learning always, and I'll take my lumps and say, I didn't see it at first, but it's It's a great name and I'm really proud of our brand. It's and we represent something that's really great.
[00:42:43] spk_0: Mostly guy we still people. It's either blame and punish or learning improves learning and improving and definitely is a part there. Well, Michael, if people want to know more about you in Yellow Bird where they need to go
[00:42:53] spk_1: www go yellow bird dot com All of our various social media outlets are, you know, hashtag Go yell over for at go. Yo, Bert. And, um you know, I thank you so much for having me on this has been really fun. I'm sorry that I got choked up early in the conversation. Apparently, when you put the pressure on, I don't know how to handle my
[00:43:17] spk_0: I I appreciate you actually coming onto the show. Thank you so much. This will bring another episode of the J. Ellen Show to an end. Hopefully, you enjoyed our conversation here today with Michael Cell. For more information about yellow Bird, go to go yellow bird dot com. Thank you for always being the best part of safety FM and that is the listener. Safety of M is the home of riel safety talk. Don't worry. We'll be back with another episode of the J. Allen show before too long. Goodbye for now. One small of J. I loathe
[00:44:24] spk_1: the opinions expressed on this podcast or those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within with podcast are only exam. It should not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited in dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast
[00:00:03] spk_0: this show is brought to you by safety. Hello and welcome to the J. Allen Show. We're broadcasting live from the safety FM's studios in Orlando, Florida Thank you for coming back and hanging out with us and seeing exactly what we have going on on this side of the planet. Perez. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Was he have seen over the last week a lot of craziness going on here? It's safety FM. A lot of new shows have been signed. We discuss that on the safety FM many episode on Friday. So if he did take a listen, you'll hear of all the new shows that air coming this direction. Also, we have announced as a Friday it was shortly after the safety FM. Many episode came out that we are now starting safety FM dot UK. More information about that will be available shortly will be on the lookout. There will have more discussions of exactly what's going on. Well, today is going to be a pretty interesting episode. Today. We have the CEO and founder of Yellow Bird. What is Yellow Bird? You might be asking? There are a match Environmental Health and Safety Professional company So opposed to me giving you some giant spill at the very beginning of the episode. How about we just do this? Let's get into the conversation that I had today with Michael Zale here on the jail in jail. So I have asked starting off because you did not get to the world of safety during the normal standard process that most people get Teoh. So what drove to this sector?
[00:01:48] spk_1: Um, it's a great question. The honest answer is, is I have been in other areas of technology my whole life, and it felt cold, and it felt less impactful than this particular area. And so as I was in tech and serving the higher risk environments, I realized, I guess it felt felt good. It felt right for me to, um, dedicate my my technology background to DHS just cause I really am a I try to be a a conscious capitalist, as they call it, or somebody you actually make make the world a better place through what I dio.
[00:02:34] spk_0: Well, I mean, this is going to be realistic. A lot of people do not find the world of safety to be. Well, let's see a beautiful one to entertain or even to go into. So as you started, you started taking a look into it. What was it that kind of drove you that said Okay, this makes sense from what you were doing to going into this. I mean, there had to be a trigger effect that said, this makes sense because of X.
[00:02:56] spk_1: Yeah, a great question. The honest answer is that I don't know if there was a moment other than I know that most safety operations DHS operations are underfunded and understaffed, and but yet they still hold all the responsibility and obligations of the insurance carriers of their senior management of their leadership. And so it's a high pressure environment. And so my my first thought was, If I could help change the way it's done, make it more efficient. And in Canada, Lee, maybe take some of the stress off of the HSE world because I do understand it. Well, uh, maybe it would become a more fun place to be because there's a lot of times that this is not a fun role to be in.
[00:03:46] spk_0: That's 100% true in regards that it's not fun all the time. It can be fun, but you have to be able be able to handle a lot of pressure at the same time to But But size is you're doing this and let's kind of make sure that I talk about it cause we're gonna get into a little bit more about Yellow Bird and how it all went down. But you're not only doing this, you were in multiple positions across multiple companies. So what's the secret? Do you have extra time? Is there an extra hour? You get a day that most people don't get. I mean, you have to tell us what's going on your not sleeping. I mean, what's happening here.
[00:04:18] spk_1: You know what? That's it. I have always been this person. I run really quickly, and I like to get involved in different things. My my co founder here we follow a Her name is Michelle Tinsley. She's ah, Intel executive, former until executive. She always says that, um, I am Ah, maybe not quite as deep into things. So I switched channels really, really quickly. Is
[00:04:47] spk_0: this something? Are you sure you wanna admit this on the air. I mean, other people are going to hear this. I just want to be sure
[00:04:51] spk_1: here. Oh, yeah. You have to understand your who you are. You know, I can have I can go deep if I have to, But at the end of the day, and I'm good at it, I mean, I'm actually pretty good in a spreadsheet. And Aiken, I can read a balance sheet, and I can talk to the board and run board meetings and all that stuff, but my energy gets really sparked when I can of I do sprints, not marathons when it comes to business. And so as long as I'm I'm using my my superpowers towards towards, um solving the individual issues within each of the companies as they occur, or and unnecessarily as acre. But when when most dire or most hot or most pressing, then I'm able to do it. But the honest answer is, is that I do at some fires burn. I truly dio I, um I I prioritize, and that's the easiest way of saying it.
[00:05:50] spk_0: So there's these other businesses that you're in. If you don't mind me asking, of course, are they tied into some of the stuff related to safety as well, Or the other ventures that have absolutely nothing to do with safety or how do they actually look?
[00:06:03] spk_1: They are One is a satellite communications company and, um, very much focused on high risk environments. So we serve the oil and gas, uh, the construction, the mining pretty much off grid, if you think of it from that perspective and emergency management. So FEMA, um, state and local government, things like that. So it's all kind of human and health related anyhow, So which is how I got I've been doing that for 20 years. It's It's a very good business. It's a, um it's an energizing business, and it is highly technical. So I enjoy that. And yes, so it is somewhat related, the other core business that my wife actually owns, Technically, um, and she actually doesn't that she's running it, and I'm very I'm not involved with it. Is you
[00:06:52] spk_0: better clear of that? Technically, that way.
[00:06:58] spk_1: Well, and she gives me, She gives me grief about this because the name of the company is MBC Industrial, which are my initials Michael. Brendan. And because I created it as a holding company a long time ago for various side projects, and we license the technology. It's a sandals, sandbag technology for floods. And it was one of these things that I just knew that we could take it to market. And, um, she actually owns 51% of the company. And so from a from a government perspective, that's meaningful. Ah, Woman owned small business, that kind of stuff. So is my name and her, her company. So I worked for her on that, um, on that business, but yeah, that again, environmental health and safety, floods and spill response or the areas of that business. And so I've been in this in these circles for over 20 years, um, dealing in in seeing the issues of VHS, and that's kind of what has brought me into founding over.
[00:07:59] spk_0: So when you decided to found Yellow Bird, what pain points are you seeing in the market place that you go? Okay, This makes sense. Now to backtrack a little bit. Explain to people what yellow bird is, because that's gonna be part of the question, Of course. And then explain the pain points that you said Okay, this is a need inside of the market.
[00:08:15] spk_1: Yeah, that's Ah, you know, I I answered this question a lot. You know, we've raised capital and we're growing the business and all that kind of stuff. So that's you're asking. Ah, very venture capital. Kind of a question. You know, what is the pain you're solving? But, um, it's it's the most important question, you know, they call a product market fit, right. What? What are you doing to solve a gap in the marketplace and for us? What we're doing is we're making experts accessible to groups that may or may not have the budget or ability to fulfill those expert needs. And so, from Andy hs perspective, and since this is ah, you know, safety program are related in safety, I don't have to go into all the various certificates and so forth. But if you're like a has whopper or you're A C H, um, that's a very different thing than a generalized, um, see SP or BSP or a general safety person. And so a lot of organizations are running as they should be by generalists, yet they still need specialists for their various efforts. And so I'll give you an example of a construction company where, you know, you have a general safety team and they oversee construction sites all across the country or all across town or multiple sites. And then you have a traveling generalised or a traveling specialist in construction that goes from site to site and when they're not there, there, empowering the or knighting or whatever you wanna call it their, um, their general contractor, foreman. And so what I envision in that scenario is saying we have a project and we know the high risk parts of that project are at, you know, turn up and turn down or when we have heavy equipment coming in and out. And I'd like to have a safety professional on that side at those times and then go on Yellow Bird And they can say, I've got an opportunity. I've got a need for somebody who's familiar with heavy equipment safety on. I need somebody on Tuesday. Um, I want somebody with 15 years of construction experience, and that person arrives there there for that project, and then they go home and they don't have to keep somebody who's ah six figure employees at every single site. You can have specialists that come in. I calm. Sharpshooters versus, ah, first shot gunners, we bring in shop sharpshooters and it could be anything from Cove in 19. Um, you know, return toe work where you do safety assessments and surface testing. Two, I need a My insurance company said I can't get my underwriting until I have a safety plan written. And I don't have a safety person. I'm a small organization and my HR persons, my safety person. And so I wanna bring on somebody who knows how to write a proper safety plan for me. So those are the various things that you can do through Yellow Bird.
[00:11:06] spk_0: Now you referenced in particular qualifications that the person has toe have. Now, how do you go about number one verifying the qualifications? And how do you vet Bill? How do you vet the people? It Let's just go with that angle.
[00:11:18] spk_1: Yeah, no, again. I keep saying great question cause yeah, I love talking to people who actually understand the issues. You know, we have to be better. And that's what I That's my mantra, is we have to be better than going to a staffing agency or temporary agency or going onto a ah, job board aggregator. And so we have a four step process. The first process is obviously on the platform, people filling out their background. Then they check what search they have in their industry and anything that makes them special and unique. Um, and that includes geography. And that includes industries of interest beyond what they've already done. Like, say, somebody is in a motor across and they say, I wanna I wanna, um I am very familiar with safety and motorcross and I would like to be on site in a motor cross event. That's, you know, it's a unique app, but it would work over, So that's the first step. Then they upload all their Certs and we validate them. Um, and then then we do a background check and then we do an interview, and then they are match ready. Um, that process takes generally between week 22 weeks. We're trying to get it faster. We're trying Teoh, trying to make it as painless as it composite Lee be while making sure that we've checked for not just the checking the box, but also some of the soft skills. And for us, I think that's the area of biggest concern. You can validate Certs. You can validate education. You can validate people's backgrounds. Do they have a felony? Are they, um, and you know, I mean, people have lives that they've lived. So just because you have something in your background does not necessarily mean you will be disqualified. We do analysis, and we use a third party to help us assess that of, You know, somebody happened to have a D u I when they were 18 years old and there 47 now. And they've had a perfect record. They're perfectly capable of being a ah safety professional on our platform as
[00:13:23] spk_0: just Means they had a crappy lawyer. Let's be realistic.
[00:13:26] spk_1: Absolutely. You know, But if you are, you know, um, something really bad and I won't go into the detail, but something really bad. And it was recent and and we may just say I'm sorry, but based on the background and so forth in our in our qualifications, you you don't fit to be a over professional right now. We wish you well.
[00:13:49] spk_0: Now, will you Will you give them a period of time where you tell them they can come back at ext after X amount of time? Or is that even not even part of the of the conversation?
[00:13:56] spk_1: It depends on what it is we've had. We've had people that we we wish them well, and we do wish them well. But we they're not going to be on our platform for various reasons. Um, and candidly, some of those reasons can be, um, can be soft skill reasons we've had.
[00:14:13] spk_0: You did. Now. You did say something, though, that kind of I looked at the sequence and I said, That's kind of different than most do You said that you verify search, then you do the background check and then you do the interview. Why do you do it in that format, opposed to interview, search background or backgrounds inserts, Because you already have an initial expense as the person's reaching out to you without you even knowing how they're going to be able to interact when they get to ah to ah organization,
[00:14:41] spk_1: we do. We've changed that quite a bit, and it's not hard and fast right now, so they're um, we do have a preliminary introductory call right now. That's the very first thing that we dio. However, the full on interview and background check is a little later in the process. In the reason for that is there is a trepidation with Howard changing the marketplace, that we want people to feel comfortable with what they're doing and make sure that they know that we're not some fly by night organization or a scam. And we're not, you know, a staffing agency and wolves cause because a lot of people think we are a staffing agency, which we are, absolutely not.
[00:15:24] spk_0: Now I have to ask the question, because this is going to be one of those weird things that I'm not sure on, what you've heard, or if this question has come up before, I'm sure, probably as, but you're saying that they have to have certifications now, some of the best safety people that I have met some of them don't even have Certs. They have experience. Why the certification angle?
[00:15:43] spk_1: You know, it's it's an interesting statement, and the reality is is that you can get on our platform without having Certs. However, we do Look, you know, you have to have some parameters. What? On one second? Okay, quickly apologize. We'll be able to edit this. I need to get some water that I just texted my son and said, Go run and get me some water. Um, those who are none prepared suffer. So yeah, the best people in the world, um, that that off any trade or background may or may not have asserts, however, education and way of setting a baseline and guideline is very, very important. They and we're trying to figure out a way you bring up a really valid point in a really interesting point because and I'd be interested in having this discussion. Maybe not on on the air, but
[00:16:44] spk_0: why, If it's not on the year, doesn't count.
[00:16:46] spk_1: Yeah, OK, well, way maybe we will have this discussion. Because if you are looking for somebody in a professional environment, um, there and then this one of those philosophical questions that I've always had about safety in general that if you're looking for a attorney and accountant, a lawyer, you know, turning a medical professional, even a nurse or somebody in the medical field, they all have various certifications and have had to go through their educational process. And I know a lot of people question this, but the reality is, is that if you can read rules and regs and kind of set guidelines of performance objectives around environmental, health and safety and environmental is a big part of this play. A big part of this industry? Um, how If you don't request Certs, do you at make sure that you after you're getting a professional?
[00:17:46] spk_0: Is that the question for me? Because here's the fun part. What I look. What I look at is there's a couple of different things because I can go into an organization and I'm just going to speak about some of the things that have been able to dio where I can actually take a look around and maybe be at the work site and work there and have somebody who has tons of experience but does not have certifications. Does that make them the best person the world debatable in regards and how you want to take a look at it? But I can also get somebody who's brand new that has just acquired. We'll just say some letters opposed to me, kind of going after an organization that has letter letters behind their name and they might not have the same understanding. Is this person who has been there for a while based on them having an understanding of the system? Does that make them better than the person that's already been there and established abs? I would be
[00:18:27] spk_1: absolutely, no, absolutely not. And you bring up And that is the philosophical question that we are constantly asking ourselves because this is not you've asked a really important question and a valid question. Sorry I have a tickle in my throat is making this.
[00:18:46] spk_0: If this normally happens when I put pressure on people's good, least it's working.
[00:18:51] spk_1: So one of the challenges that we have is on a platform where you are ingesting people through an application and trying to make sure that they are capable and qualified. How do you do that without having that experience that you're speaking of? Um, there's no question. I mean, you take you, take my grandfather who, um, if he didn't graduate high school or if he did graduate high school, he barely did, and he'd never went to college but he was a very successful business person. And you take somebody with an M B A coming out of Harvard, and I would put my grandfather against that guy any day of the week to run a business successfully and grow. However, on an interview, there's no doubt that that Harvard MBA is gonna get the interview before my grandfather would. And the question is, Is that if you were trying to figure out how to create a mentor ship for young entrepreneurs to say, um, you've got Mike's grandfather and you've got Mr M. B A. Over here with three years of experience Post college, Which one do you pair up? This young entrepreneur with nine out of 10 and probably 10 out of 10 would get the N b A. To place him with that person. And the reality is that my grandfather probably would give them better practical advice. So that is a type of thing that we think about of what are the AI and other matching things that we're building into the tech that we can pull out to make it a better match? And that is actually what my chief product officer is focused on on the technology side because what we're doing is relatively easy, man. Also relatively common in a traditional, you know, staffing agency model or even temporary agency model. What we're trying to do is ah, look at years of experience, the industry that they're in, the geography that they're in and from that create some kind of a ranking system that is better to match them with an opportunity rather than just OK, you know, you got this certain you got these, you know, alphabet soup after your name and you went to this great college and you're in this geography, and so we match you. That's the challenge that I'm having
[00:21:17] spk_0: and the only reason that I bring this up because we see some weird scenarios out there. And let's kind of take out of the portion of people coming to you. I'm just gonna talk about this in general, where you might see an ad that's being ran for somebody for a company that's looking for somebody who has a CSP ah, masters degree and they're starting to pay them out at $18 an hour. I mean, you chuckle and it's OK, but that is That's the reality of what's out there. And there's no way that a master's degree in a CSP should qualify you for eating dollars an hour.
[00:21:49] spk_1: Absolutely. And that shows the lack of sophistication of the hiring manager that is not a right that is not a reflection on the person. And there's not a reflection. In fact, what they should be getting is feedback from the marketplace saying, You're out of your mind. Um, and that's the other thing that I like and I know I'm not supposed to bring us back to uber, but that's what I like about you. Albert is we are able to get a premium rate for premium skills and the reason I say that it's not that people are gonna pay more, but you don't have to pay somebody $90,000 a year. If you want to have somebody come in and you pay them $3000 to do the job that you need done at the time, you need it done. It's a win win, and that's again. It's not employment engagement, but that does go back to that whole thing of well, we don't really have the budget for a safety professional, but we need we know we need to hire, um So I guess I'll put it out there at $18 an hour is like, you're out of your mind. You're not gonna get anybody worth of salt. And if you dio that person realistically is, um, probably not the person you want,
[00:22:58] spk_0: So let's going to flip the script a little bit on some of this. So let's talk about how this whole process goes from, Let's say, the person that's trying to acquire the safety professional to come in. So I am a business owner. I need a safety person for X job. How do I contact you and get the information on what needs to be done? So I say, I'm looking for somebody in the transportation business needs to teach some drivers best best practices in driving techniques. What can you find me?
[00:23:28] spk_1: That's awesome. That's by the way I love. That scenario is not one that I've used very often, but it's a great scenario. Um, so the way it happens and it's really, really easy, which is our whole goal. My whole ambition in life is to make this a simple as humanly possible. Why can't we be azizia? Snooper? I know every goes. Oh, well, uber you know, that's Ah, whoa, dollar turn and burn industry. It doesn't have to be that technology can be used on sophisticated people. So you go on to go yo labour dot com Just like it sounds geo yellow bird and you sign up and there's a company area and there's a professional area. So it says, Do you need people or are you looking toe do gig work? E. H s work. So I need people. It asked a few questions. It doesn't have to get super sophisticated. You know what to say. I need somebody with X Y z Certs. You could just say I have a logistics company. I have training to be done. And by the way, I'm gonna give you a great scenario. I have training to be done at 10 different locations, and I need to be able to upload my training materials and have 10 different trainers go out to those sites next week.
[00:24:39] spk_0: That sounds about the logistics companies on how that would work. Sit your pretty spot on.
[00:24:43] spk_1: Yes. Yeah, And there's only one way of doing that. Traditionally, it's either send it off to the general managers and have them read it. Of which everybody's hearing this Charlie Brown teacher want, want, want or you get independent consultants that you've gone through and just basically tried through associations or so forth. Or you go to a staffing agency and say, I need temporary staff that understand safety. Um, and they'll give you okay, we should be able to find somebody in six day weeks that, for all those locations in the final way, is you, Mr Safety Person responsible, who's asking the question? Better get in your car and start driving from site to site. And that's the way it's done today, either driving or airplane, neither of which are being done today given Cove. It, um, which has given us some tailwind as a company, which will probably also address at some point.
[00:25:37] spk_0: So that's the way that it set up on. And then how do's the pricing structure work? So you base it off of what they're looking for is there are a raid, or how does that come about? I'm not gonna ask for specifics on what you're charging, but how does. How does that aspect work?
[00:25:51] spk_1: So we do a statement of work. We validate the statement of work with the quiet so they upload what they need. And, um, it says, Well, I have Ah, you know, we have a 20 page manual. We're gonna have three sessions of 20 people in each. And we need somebody to come and do those three sessions over a period of, ah, one day while given a real easy examples, one or two days. Um, and you know, we want somebody who's familiar with the truck safety and driving procedures Safe, safe driving procedures, preferably somebody with X y Z, um, you know, understanding we'll leave it at that. So then what we do is we go out. We are system assesses. What a going rate for a person like that would be, um, and it is based on, you know, basically, hours could be traveling hours. It could be traveling materials and hours, depending upon what the need is. But in this case, with training, it's basically traveling hours, and then it comes back and we validate with the company that is this an acceptable number per location and if they say yes. We send out essentially an A P B. We send out a text to the people on the platform that qualify and says We have an opportunity for you at X location. Um, on Wednesday, are you available? Yes or no? Do you have any questions? Yes or no? And they say yes and they're available. And yes, I have a question and we asked what the question is and we facilitate that. And four. So that's how it's done in each of the sites. But just done very quickly, usually could be done at all the sites We've done many, many sites, um, within days, which is great. Um, again, time is money and, um, distances money and we're saving all of those. And for that yellow bird gets a percentage of the rate. So, um, we charge basically X plus, it's a cost plus structure, and where the money is saved for the company is time and actual physical hours. Because in a training environment, traditionally they'll have a minimum. They will try and put you into a bucket and were Our rate generally is about 50 to 60% lower in the traditional training consultant
[00:28:19] spk_0: Okay, so then everything that you're saying here is really heavily based on algorithm is how it pulls the information for you to be able to pride an estimate to the customer. Is that correct?
[00:28:28] spk_1: It sounds, yes, but it sounds more sophisticated than it is right now. Again, we're smallest or small group. You know, we launched in January were in about 600% growth rate right now, which is incredible. Um, and I'm very blessed to say that especially in the time of endemic. Um, but much of this is being physically done through a team of people, and my programming team should be ready to have it completely. Um, um, through a, uh, system to a process by the end of the year.
[00:29:03] spk_0: So so are you saying are you saying then essentially, it's gonna go out to like, a bed system similar to what, like an uber on the left would do. Where would he actually go? Out and goes? You've been waiting this long and you fall into the qualification. So we're gonna offer it to this. You first. You say yea or nay. And if they say no, it goes to the next person,
[00:29:19] spk_1: uh, somewhat. And I don't mean to be evasive, So it's a lot easier with an uber, because you either you have a certain size of car and you have distance from the location. That's really their parameters. Um, I I say this in the investment community, and I don't mean disrespectful to be disrespectful but to be in uber driver Union driver's license in a car in a pulse. And, um, now they do make sure that you meet a lot of other criteria. But the reality is it's a relatively low bar, and that's true with a lot of other, you know, gig, economy platforms for us. We don't just look for the amount of time on this is on the platform. Um, we don't just look for your asserts and background. We we look for the whole person. So the machine learning algorithm is, um, you know, it's a really sophisticated deal, but, you know, my chief product officer comes from eBay. Um, and we're very confident that we're gonna be able to do this better than anybody else,
[00:30:19] spk_0: right? But you also have to look at it, too, from the standpoint that somebody's going to ask the question of How do I get How do I get first dibs? I mean, there's just no way that people are not going to ask that question.
[00:30:28] spk_1: Be the best for the gig,
[00:30:30] spk_0: baby. What are the qualifications to be the best for the gig? That's what I'm trying. So it has to qualify you somehow. Because if you're saying it's not the longest person on the platform, so then it has to be based on something.
[00:30:41] spk_1: Yeah, I know. I mean,
[00:30:41] spk_0: I'm just going to have a better understanding of it.
[00:30:43] spk_1: No, of course. Of course you are. And I and I respect that so well, the best for the gig and that. Let me let me define that for you. So we're so we're clear. Um, yes. We want the oldest, the longest people on the platform to be first. If everything is equal. Yes, of course we do. But if you have a welding background, if you've worked for a pipe fitter for 20 years and you've recently retired and you have a pipe fitting experience and you've only been on for one week, but you meet all the criteria because you are the best match for my welding safety training and you are a mile from the location. You are the best for the gig, and that comes first. And if I lose people because they've been on the platform for a long time, but they and they haven't had a gig because they weren't the best fit. Um, yet it's a shame, but we have to have the best fit first.
[00:31:39] spk_0: Okay, so does Is there a fee for a person to want to come onto the platform or it's only a portion of the revenue share?
[00:31:46] spk_1: Currently, there is no fee on, and I say currently and we have
[00:31:49] spk_0: GUY was going to say You did say currently, so I want to throw that out there.
[00:31:54] spk_1: There is currently no fee were not planning on adding a fee for the near future. If anybody is interested in doing this, it's a good idea to do it sooner rather than later. Um, because as we scale and as we grow, um, we are going to be adding some value, add services and value, add things for professionals. One of the things that we do offer his insurance. Um, for professionals, we give insurance to every professional that is on the platform. So when you're doing a job for us, you actually get occupational accident coverage. So if you get injured, what you're doing a job for free over you actually are covered by insurance, which is very nice. Um, and we are looking into a deeper insurance strategy around that that still keeps us within the law of independent contractors, which I have.
[00:32:45] spk_0: What about error? Intermission?
[00:32:47] spk_1: Hey, Aaron. Omission Insurance. And that's the insurance of what I was referring to. We are in the middle of having those discussions right now currently,
[00:32:57] spk_0: well, and that's a good I mean, it's a It's a good question to ask, and let's be realistic about it. If I go into an organization and I'm doing well, that's kind of go back for a moment. I go into an organization. I was contract ID by Yellow Bird, and I'm doing warg red location acts. If something goes wrong, who's on the hook?
[00:33:16] spk_1: Well, depending what defining something goes wrong first.
[00:33:19] spk_0: Okay, so let's say, for instance, I recommend for you to do this thing, which is entirely wrong.
[00:33:25] spk_1: All right.
[00:33:26] spk_0: And then we move forward. Who does the client come after
[00:33:30] spk_1: everybody?
[00:33:33] spk_0: You've been in the States for way too long,
[00:33:35] spk_1: thin in that number. It honestly, that is the answer. So when When an organization there, general liability insurance and their general insurance does cover, um, insurance for their subcontractors, However, and that's one the reasons we are talking to about errors and omissions. Insurance. The good news is, is that we're not a typical group who, um, does the physical work. We're doing recommendation work we're doing in intelligence work. And so we're presenting a recommendation. My are professionals are presenting a recommendation to the company for their assessment and discussion. And so that's an important thing because the person doing the work still has a responsibility. Um, that said, if you have somebody who says who comes on and they tell you to do something completely wrong, um, then there isn't There is an obligation there. There's no question about that.
[00:34:33] spk_0: I just want to make sure that we're clear there, because I know that that's going to actually come up to some of the people that have that are hearing this for the first time. Now, my question to you. Are you in all 48 states that are connected. Or you on all 50 Or how do you have it set up? Currently,
[00:34:48] spk_1: we're in all 50 states and territories. No, I'm not gonna territories all 50 states
[00:34:53] spk_0: territories. Really this bomber SaiPan's So you. So you're in all 50 states in some of the territories. Then
[00:35:06] spk_1: what we we actually again? We launched in January. We launched in Phoenix, Arizona, and the goal of the launch was to do a product market fit, figure out the unit economics, make sure that the market So on this what we see in it and we had such explosive growth that we actually opened up other markets and we had to call people and say We really are Phoenix based, but if you'd like to be on the platform, that's great. Texas is really hot for us right now. The Deco's Dakota's air really hot for us right now. We do have somebody every every state in the union right now. All of that said, our marketing is very much targeted at the moment. We're doing some national work like this and and doing national campaigning and program awareness. But we're seeing hot spots with gigs. And the odd thing is, it's mostly companies that are based in one location and need Giggs and other locations so they could be all over the place if that's the interesting part of this program.
[00:36:10] spk_0: Now, right now, when somebody actually does contact you and say, Hey, we need a pro to come in, Is there a certain amount of time that they could be locked into a organization for or is a kind of unlimited, depending on the client's needs?
[00:36:22] spk_1: Um, it depends on the mutual agreement to that. So the model is is that we have no issue at all with an organization saying, while we, you know, John came out here or Jane came out here and we really liked the work that she did and she was excellent. And we when we have a reassessment in 30 days to see how we've been doing based on her recommendations, we would like her to come back out, then go on. The Colbert asked for her specifically and great. Um, we have some gigs. We have one that is just going about seven months, Um, and it is on site and people go where that's a staffing program. It's actually not. We're building every two weeks, but, um, it is a sober traditional, and they've chosen not to hire this person full time. A lot of organizations don't want W two employees. They want to be able to say We want a consultant to come out, be on site for the duration of this three weeks for the duration of this four months, whatever it happens to be and know that person could be available for us. But should they not be, um, that you have other professionals that would match the criteria
[00:37:35] spk_0: Very interesting on how the whole program works. So if where do you see this going into the future? I mean, what is what do you see is going to end up happening? I mean, of course, I'm asking the crystal ball question because that's normally how this goes.
[00:37:47] spk_1: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. Is one that iss I. It's we are right now very much focused on VHS, and but what we're doing is professional matching, and as we get better, we've already applied for a couple of patents in our matching algorithm in process. Um, we see the tech being able to be leveraged into other professional, um, niche markets. Now, do we want to go along, go after being dentistry or ah, lawyers or doctors? No, I don't see that. Um, you never know. I never say never. But what we do like is being deep into it, a segment that maybe underserved I c E h s as being a very by bifurcated industry. It's got segments all over the place. There's a lot of 1 to 2 men person consulting firms, and there's a lot of retirees. And that's what I'm passionate about is transitional workers who want to stay in the game and honestly, are probably the best at the game. Um, folks who have been doing this for 25 30 years and they're like, I want to be on my fishing boat. But I wouldn't mind coming out to sites ever, you know, on my terms and doing this work. So to answer a question, we're going to grow and we're going to keep offering some value added services along the way. Listen to our customers, and I don't know what the end game necessarily looks like. Everybody thinks that we're building this to sell the business. I'm saying that we're building this to create something really wonderful. I'm young. I have a young family. I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this, and I'm loving it. So that's that's my barometer personally.
[00:39:34] spk_0: So, you know, I'm gonna have to ask the very strange question on where did the name come from?
[00:39:38] spk_1: You know, it's a great and it's a great question, and I enjoyed the question. Um, the original name was horrible and
[00:39:46] spk_0: oh, so let's hear it. Let's hear What's the original name? Zip
[00:39:50] spk_1: E H s.
[00:39:52] spk_0: Oh, you are absolutely right. I e
[00:39:57] spk_1: made it up and I was sitting. I was literally sitting in an uber when I made it up, and it was horrible. But
[00:40:04] spk_0: you're not blaming the uber for this, are you? I'm giving
[00:40:08] spk_1: credit to the ever because, um, he was one of the people who inspired me. It was a colonel in the foreign Air Force and he retired and he was driving uber, and I was thinking to myself, This guy could be doing and no egg and no offense to the uber drivers of the world, but you could be doing so much more to share his knowledge. And that was one of the things that sparked my sparked my thoughts. And then, of course, I went down the what? I call it kind of an idea. Uh, and so some documents still have zippy hs on them from our our lawyers.
[00:40:41] spk_0: Burn them, burn that number. Turkey. Oh,
[00:40:44] spk_1: so, yellow bird, we went through a branding exercise. And, you know, if you ever done it with a marketing agency, it's really fun. It's really fun. You know, they ask you the strangest questions, you know? What do you want people to feel when they're using you? The company? You know what? What inspires you? You know, what animal do you relate to? You know, you know all these very bizarre questions, and, you know, they're trying to use an animated objects combined with an action or action words combined with a color, all these various things and yellow being this color of safety and caution. And, um, we thought it it could work in the yellow, um, aspects of it. The bird was soaring and freedom and little image to the canary in the coal mine um, back in the day, our very first safety warrior out there who lost their lives when there was, uh, lack of oxygen in the coal mines of. So that's kind of how it came. And to be really honest with you, I didn't like I didn't like it at all. I was at dinner with my at the time, my 11 year old and my 15 year old or 14 year old and a time, and I and my wife and I were talking about all the various names. As soon as I said Yellow Bird, all three of them looked at me and go, That's it. Nah, that doesn't work. I don't like
[00:42:07] spk_0: it. No, I mean it. Definitely get it Brings attention. I mean it. It sticks out. When you see it, you definitely sticks out. It's not. There's no doubt what it is the moment you see it.
[00:42:17] spk_1: Thank you. And I'm very proud of it now. And I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that I didn't see it immediately because everybody else apparently did. But, um, you know, I'm I'm a learning type of a person. I am committing it, committed to learning always, and I'll take my lumps and say, I didn't see it at first, but it's It's a great name and I'm really proud of our brand. It's and we represent something that's really great.
[00:42:43] spk_0: Mostly guy we still people. It's either blame and punish or learning improves learning and improving and definitely is a part there. Well, Michael, if people want to know more about you in Yellow Bird where they need to go
[00:42:53] spk_1: www go yellow bird dot com All of our various social media outlets are, you know, hashtag Go yell over for at go. Yo, Bert. And, um you know, I thank you so much for having me on this has been really fun. I'm sorry that I got choked up early in the conversation. Apparently, when you put the pressure on, I don't know how to handle my
[00:43:17] spk_0: I I appreciate you actually coming onto the show. Thank you so much. This will bring another episode of the J. Ellen Show to an end. Hopefully, you enjoyed our conversation here today with Michael Cell. For more information about yellow Bird, go to go yellow bird dot com. Thank you for always being the best part of safety FM and that is the listener. Safety of M is the home of riel safety talk. Don't worry. We'll be back with another episode of the J. Allen show before too long. Goodbye for now. One small of J. I loathe
[00:44:24] spk_1: the opinions expressed on this podcast or those of the host and its guest, and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within with podcast are only exam. It should not be utilized in the real world at the only solution available as they're based only on very limited in dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis or not reflective of the position of the company. No part of this podcast may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means mechanical, electronic recording or otherwise, without prior written permission of the creator of the podcast