Jennifer Wenzel: Vocation Creation
Safety Consultant with Sheldon Primus
Jennifer Wenzel: Vocation Creation
August 31, 2020
In this episode, I interview Jennifer Wenzel from Vocation Creation. We speak about instructional design, ways to ensure your training meets the ADDIE model and more. We even speak about the hidden techniques of Bloom Taxonomy.
[00:00:00] spk_0: This is Sheldon Promise, the host of the safety consultant podcast. During this time, we've all been tightening our belts because of Cove in 19. I have been as well recently. I've found cost effective alternative to some of the services and programs that I was using, such as email, marketing, hosting services and even one of my favorites. Teachable. Is it Sheldon Prime Miss? That calm backslash resource is for special offers to help you reduce your business overhead. If you're hosting a podcast or one of host a podcast, then visit Sheldon Prima's dot com backslash hosting for a knockout deal. Don't give up in your dream. Get smarter on the back end of your business. This

[00:00:49] spk_1: episode is powered by Safety FM.

[00:00:59] spk_0: Welcome to another episode of the safety consultant podcast. This is the podcast where I teach you the business of being a safety consultant. This week we talked to Jennifer Wenzel. She is the founder of vocation creation. So in vocation creation, Jennifer's goal is to help people who I want to do something that they love every day in their business. So what she does is she teaches them how to tank that desire and turn it into something that's tested and practical for them to do as a job as their new vocation. So they're teaching entrepreneurs their budding entrepreneurs had to be their own boss. So I got a hold of her and, uh, we were talking about pretty much a few things. I am going to be on her podcast and she's on my podcast. So you get to hear her first and then you'll hear me on her podcast. If you listen that one, which I hope you will, and you're gonna look of vocation creation when she releases her podcast, I'll be 11 of those guests. So we kind of talked about what her first work was, and she used to do instructional designing and some of you that know me already from listening Teoh 80 Something episode right now. Now then, I am a subject matter expert for general industry and construction topics, and I've worked with several several several of the big name companies that do online vocational training for the environmental health and safety field. So we talked about that. We also talked a little bit about some of the things that you can make yourself more valuable as a SME. And then she informed me that I'm actually doing both. I'm doing SME work and I'm doing instructional designs. It was very good eye opening conversation, and she also told me a little bit about for me. I just wanted to know, you know, am I delivering things correctly the way it should be? So we even talked about those things about how do you know that you are creating a course and the course meets all the objective that you need to ensure that the learners getting what they need? So it was a wonderful, wonderful conversation. I look forward to, uh, hearing what everyone thinks after this one. So we will talk to Jennifer after this word from our sponsor.

[00:03:43] spk_1: Do you want to be a safety consultant? Listen to Dr J. Allen of Safety FM give his experience after taking the safety consultant blueprint course. I have actually been research on different consultants and looked at different consulting courses in someone. There is a pretty fancy, very expensive consulting course that is out there. I have actually purchased the consulting course was interested in. It has good information. Don't get me wrong, but you have a consulting course. It really drives people onto focusing on safety and how to become a safety. Consulting, I will tell you on your particular course there was better information in that particular regards thin the other consulting course. There was more of a generalised form, but I figured I felt like I got more information out of yours on your giving people half on what to do, step by step. But I really think that you have a genuine good product there. They could really use those people if they're interested in becoming a safety consulting register for the safety consultant blueprint at www dot safety consultant blueprint dot com. Enter code podcast for a special discount. I'm Jennifer Wenzel. I live in ST Cloud, Minnesota, and I've been working an instructional design and development for about Oh, now I have to think I'm getting old is just It's been about 20 years now, from the very beginnings when I started learning how to develop training in a health promotion organization with a bunch of people who worked in local government doing health training for schools and community groups and businesses, and I started as sort of a high level administrative assistant helping do Cem desktop publishing and graphic design for their training manuals. And years later, I was actually a license certified instructional designer and alerting developer and worked largely in healthcare and in the financial services industry.

[00:05:50] spk_0: Very cool. And that sounds like the training for that took forever. In my mind, it sounds like it.

[00:05:58] spk_1: It was more my fault than anything else. I actually was working as a training developer for their local county government and couldn't really get the job promotion until I finished my bachelor degrees. So they took me to 13 8 years old before I finally got my degree. And as soon as I got that for your degree under my belt, I went from a principal office specialist to an e learning designer and developer entitled as well as in Duties.

[00:06:27] spk_0: Wow! Well, congrats first before most cause they know that's always hard to do it as a, you know, going back as a working adult. So that's always something that you've gotta make sure that you congratulate because truly now you tell the kids it go right after high school and it's be easier and then somehow life happens and you can't go right after high school. And now when you go back, as I did the same round and I get my my bachelors while I was going back and then my masters as well later on. But it is truly, truly tough. So congrats on that.

[00:07:02] spk_1: Thank you. It's funny that you mention the masters later on, because after I got my bachelor's degree, I realized I finally really, for the first time in my life, liked going to school. So you immediately started my master's degree of fun graduating, but that I only ended up getting, Ah, six graduate credits or six classes out of my 10 so I never actually got my degree. But I did get to graduate certificates, so that was really all I needed. Instructional design and development, um, technology used was my first certificate and then agile project management and agile project development was my second certificate. So it was It was really fun learning, actually.

[00:07:41] spk_0: Yeah, and truly, I guess the catalyst to this was just trying to, um, get further in the company.

[00:07:49] spk_1: It was it was both further in the company and just to get better at my own skills, especially with agile design and development. Thean Structural design world is really embracing, agile right now on human centered design and they go together so well. So it was something that I wanted to improve my own knowledge and skills in. So it was really was really just a way to make myself better at my own job to

[00:08:18] spk_0: yeah, along the way where they like and even even for the schooling side. But But when you first started working as well, what were some of the things that you wish you knew? Uh, like when you first got started that, you know, now that would have been so much easier. Teoh understand in this in this field, because it's so technical, you know,

[00:08:45] spk_1: I immediately think of it like literally, I'm seeing this list just running through my head like the credits at the end of a movie of the fast. For just all these things that you really learn through unfortunate experience, you learn the hard way a lot. It is in any job on the face of the earth. You don't really know what you're going to run into until you do. But I wish I had known two things in particular. We got it down to two. I can think in cluster this mess of huge list of things in dealing two main areas and they the kind of fall into the first one being I wish that I had known the essential need of pre learning assessments and post learning assessments. Because still to this day, after so many years in the industry and working at several extremely competent firms that no learning and development even now we don't give enough attention to gauging where the learners are before we train or instruct. And then after they're done, we just focus on the training itself and without really measuring it without measuring the change from start to finish, we don't know if we're doing a good job or not. We can sing, You know, we put out a a little, uh, survey at the end. How did you like this training? Oh, it was great. I wasn't bored. I didn't fall asleep, but we don't know. They learn anything. So so that I wish that I had known more about and implemented more right from the start of my career, and I'm like I said, I'm still struggling with that to this day because we just don't build a lot of time and Resource is in for the measurement part and then part to project management skills. I am a big picture thinker. I have an idea person. I love brainstorming, and I am definitely not the person who clans out the steps of the project from a dizzy and remembers every little tiny detail. And that's something that I've really had to struggle with because so often an instructional design. We are one person teams way. Do it all from start to finish. We interview the subject matter experts. We are the sunshine clatter experts. We write the training, we write the assessments, we write the questions we put out the learning, you know, create the actual storyboards and build it in the software and record the voice over and release it. What was that?

[00:11:23] spk_0: You guys record the voice overs

[00:11:26] spk_1: for you. Warning. Yeah, for online training. That's one of the reasons that I actually got into the learning design and development is because I was a voiceover actor first because I had been in radio about 25 years ago. So

[00:11:41] spk_0: we're holding a pin on that. We're going to come back to that one.

[00:11:45] spk_1: So yeah, so many times. It's one, maybe two people creating training, organ, doing the instructional design for adult learners for corporations or, you know, for for as a freelancer. But you, whether you're working on a team of one or a team of 20 you need project management skills, and you need to map out the process and know your deadlines and know how to work backwards from those deadlines than know how it's. You come up with the project delivery bols and every piece and part of that project deliverable. If you really want to be successful, especially the more people that get involved, Um, and that's still something. That's not a strong point. I wish I had focused on that a lot more earlier in my career and built it up a little bit. I don't care if it's never going to be an innate skill of mine, but I do care that I don't let things go through the cracks or forget that a certain piece of the whole puzzle needs to be put together. So fortunately, I am very lucky that I've gotten to rely on quite a few people who have very strong management skills, and they helped me fill that gap. So I'm always glad for that.

[00:12:55] spk_0: Good. Well, before you go too far off my thought and forget it altogether, cause I'm I'm not even project managing this this actual interview. I don't write things down. I should be doing that, man. Maybe more than from your point B. I have a lot of SME work in the past, and I've got a bunch of companies that have worked with, and some are asking me to do reviews, meaning here's the course. Is it still current? Are these OSHA standards don't good? And I'll do those for a certain amount of price and and usually get that in bulk, and I just do a whole bunch of them for them. Then I have dollars. That's a hills And Sheldon, we need this topic. Can you write this topic for us? And they tell me I have to write a certain amount of word count and have to break it into modules. Then I also have to do the objectives for each one on then let's see. I'll do five questions at each end of each module, and then we'll have to do a final exam as well. Eso Usually that's how I'm creating the forces. Whatever people give me projects to actually write something for them and then on the other side. And truly when I'm doing those in modules, I have to think of the course What, what it's gonna look like towards the end so I can add that into the objectives. And then also I have to incorporate, Uh, just everyone's learning along the way cause I may have different different levels or people that are coming on. So I think then the last section that people have me do is sometimes story boarding. And that has been more recent. Is the company that I'm working with currently in their transitioning from UK to U K and Australia to the U. S. And they're bringing up the storyboard model and I have to create things like that. And that's been unique. No. So I'm learning a lot about this. Am I still a SME or, um, I actually instructional designing at this point?

[00:15:08] spk_1: That's a really interesting question. You are definitely a both your an instructional designer and sme for sure, because you're not just I'd say when you review the existing training for accuracy and completeness, you're definitely working Maurin the SME capacity. But when you're writing from scratch, you are combining both because you're taking the knowledge from your head and you are crafting it and molding it and shaping it to meet your client and their learner's needs. So you're definitely working in both capacities there, I'd say.

[00:15:46] spk_0: Okay. And, um, are you like, let's say someone wants to do that and and hold a helmet, I almost forgot. See, I told you is gonna, like, actually do the pin on the thought of going back and actually talking to a little bit about when you do the voice over work. So when you're doing the voiceover work, you literally you get this thing you put in the storyboard and then for every slide you're doing the voice behind of the learning for that slide,

[00:16:16] spk_1: Yeah, and of course, that would be for online learning or sort of what we call in the industry, of course, asynchronous learning versus live one on one training, such as a in person, classroom training or workshop, or even a live webinar where people are attending life because they're really different when it comes to designing the instruction for online a sting for just learning like you learning versus synchronous learning where you're teaching. At the same time, the people are learning whether it's virtual digital or in person. It's definitely a different process. So the voice over work really comes in the learning of asynchronous type, where we pre record it. And then people watch it at their leisure, whether they're just watching a video and absorbing it, or whether they're actually doing an interactive learning module where they click and match and dragon drop and make choices. You know, a three D. So, yeah, that's the kind of work that I do. The voiceover work for is is the asynchronous type training.

[00:17:19] spk_0: All right, tell me about the early voice over stuff. Had to get in that

[00:17:24] spk_1: well, I was going to school for journalism. This was 1990 my first year of college. I was a journalism. May that would have been my first year. Cool were the same age nice.

[00:17:42] spk_0: You're including me in that I know what you're throwing down there.

[00:17:46] spk_1: So sorry we're young. We're still doing ever so. Yeah. 1990 journalism. Of course, I had no idea, as most people didn't about the online revolution coming a decade or so down the road. But I just wasn't really as inspired by journalism as I thought after my first year. And I had always been a writer through my youth and high school and won some awards nationally for newspaper copyrighting. And so that was just what I thought I'd do. But I was just bemoaning my fate with one of my friends the summer after my first year of college. And then, like, I don't want to be a journalist. I don't want to write for a living. What should I do? And my friend said, Well, you've got a great voice. I mean, it's a weird voice, but it's a good voice. Maybe you should get into radio, and I'm like So you went to school for radio for a year and ended up doing radio for five or six years and have always been super technical. I was really lucky to grow up with a Macintosh. My dad got our family a Mac computer in 84. The first ones and I was online in 1993 when I started my radio career and I was on the Web and 95 like actually building websites by the time 98 rolled around. So voiceover marketplace has started around 2003 ish. I was right there doing voice over work and which your client was fine. Just kind of a talent that I didn't want to let drop

[00:19:13] spk_0: you were your clients back then? What? What can that mike of names but the type of industry unless you want to give names but the type of industry you for that?

[00:19:20] spk_1: Yeah, very, very, very, very, very varied industry I worked in. Well, that's the kind of funny thing, literally. That's how I learned about you. Learning in the first place is because I was doing online voiceover work for people who needed them for corporate learning projects, and I had never heard of the learning before. I mean, everyone knows that you go to a class and there's a teacher that stands up and talks to your You go to a corporate training and there's a trainer that stands up and talks to you. But I I had never encountered you learning at that point in my life. And I was like, Oh, that's cool Eso I would do a lot of like e learning scripts and Web computer Web commercials. You know, Web based commercials are for companies that just had a brand new website back in the early two thousands and needed a voice for it. Remember how in the old days you go to a website and automatically he would start talking to you?

[00:20:15] spk_0: Yes, he has listened that stupid screeching and get on You know

[00:20:22] spk_1: you could stop the sound You couldn't turn the sound down way Didn't have, like, a little You know which tab is playing the sound

[00:20:28] spk_0: back in those days years your destiny date me just I know a man in the room. Come on. I still remember when the websites were like $100 for a website like I am buying that $100 when I get up to 10.

[00:20:50] spk_1: So those were the kind of things that I record. I did do some online advertising. I never really did any like broadcast ads or anything, but I was the voice for the what do they call it, the institutional arm of Tony's Pizza and their associated products for a while? So that one night when everybody who worked in like school cafeterias was maybe a school cafeteria buyer would go to the brand's website. It was my voice that was talking about the various institutional food options that great biggest project was. I didn't online drug pronunciation encyclopedia. It was like 1423 drug names, and I had to recite each and every one of them. It was Tabor's, I think, is the branding, the tables strong encyclopedia. And if a medical professional needed to know how to say the drug, they just click the little thing. It would be my voice going hydroxy lysine, whatever

[00:21:51] spk_0: is going to be painful.

[00:21:53] spk_1: It was awful. So yeah, so that's that's the kind of stuff I was doing. It was so glamorous, Let me tell you,

[00:21:58] spk_0: Yeah, I can imagine what At least you're not like 800 number, and I'm going to do that kind of way to

[00:22:06] spk_1: if yes, to reach James in the marketing department, press one to reach chill in the advertising department press too.

[00:22:13] spk_0: Yeah. There you go. All right. All that I had to get this so I could is that I am looking for a disclaimer for my show. And then also, you know, the ones were you You say the copyright information online. You know, none of this could be broadcast without the express written consent to Sheldon, and I'm looking for that. You could be that voice.

[00:22:37] spk_1: Yeah. Suddenly the script old. I'll say it for you. It's funny, cause I actually got out of voice overs after about four or five years of doing it because it was really boring work. You said by yourself, with your computer screen, you record the thing, you send it off, you get a paycheck of however smaller, large it might be, but you never actually speak to a human being. And as you can tell, I really like speaking to human beings. So that was just It was like pulling teeth for me to get me in front of Mike after the first few years. So I did not do it anymore after that.

[00:23:14] spk_0: Oh, wow. Well, great. That's hostile, Jennifer. I just wanted to really, uh one night when you said it, I was like, I got to find out about this one.

[00:23:24] spk_1: It's still fun to do as a very part time thing. And of course, when I'm recording any anything for learning, that's a whole different thing. It's a lot of fun. I'm glad I'm still doing it. And not casting to podcasting is great as well.

[00:23:37] spk_0: Yeah, So have you officially launched yet? Or you still like Like getting all your shows and then gonna watch that?

[00:23:45] spk_1: Yeah, I'm putting together, I think five or six shows and then I'll launched with the five or six that I have and then go weekly after that. Wait, no good choice. I think I've read that. That's a really good number that people can listen to and decide if they like it. And then they'll subscribe versus having to wait for your next, however many weeks before the next one comes out.

[00:24:07] spk_0: Yeah, I read a podcasting book by John Lee Duma's, and he suggested doing that, and I was like, I don't do that. And truly, when they met Jay Allen of Safety FM before he got me on the network, he was like Well, you gotta wait until you get your 10 and then I'll get you on the network. And at that time, I just really released it, like, a couple of weeks before. But I already released, like, seven of them at one time. So I was really right there. Right then, anyway, because I guess the idea is if someone hears you, they like you. They could already subscribe and have a few other things to catch up on this. So is that what you're thinking, too?

[00:24:43] spk_1: Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. Plus, I've gotten a whole bunch of interviews done in the past week. So why sit on them, right?

[00:24:51] spk_0: Yeah, absolutely. Excellent. Now looks for my listeners. They're going to be eth amis usually, and they are ready to transition. And for those who aren't familiar with the term SME, especially if you're have a different language, its subject matter expert. So that's what it translates to subject matter expert and those people that have been doing a certain industry for so long. And they build a lot of information in their brains, and they need to get rid of his things somehow. And the people that pay for it So that's what we're talking about when we say s a means those people who they have been in this company or in the business of doing this job forever and now they're in a position where they could share it with someone else. Get that information. Allergy becomes a course and people make straight over cash for this thing. And surely I believe that especially now in the Cove in 19 error, because I don't believe it's just a season. I think it's gonna be even even longer than that. Maybe not. You know, this particular disease but airborne viruses and I don't want to be doing doing gloom. But I know that when people start seeing that they can make extra money somewhere else, they were just going to go ahead and do that, too. So I think let's say the unintended consequence or maybe it wasn't even intended at all, but just a outcome of what we have to end up just going ahead and stop Dippenaar water in this virtual thing. And just everybody jumped in in. Well, I think that's here to stay. So what do you guys were gonna be listening for this?

[00:26:32] spk_1: Oh, it another another waited. Determine SME. Now you might also hear the term SMS, which is subject matter specialists, and I have literally no idea why somebody would use SMS versus SME or or vice versa, because they literally mean the same thing. But different companies. Yeah, he was a different, sometimes different terms. But those air usually how I hear here's the term is thrown around.

[00:26:55] spk_0: So now let's say you're someone who's got all this information in the brain there, ready to get it out. Uh, do you even have any, like tips that it would take for them to get even noticed by somebody?

[00:27:08] spk_1: Oh, what a great question, I think. Have a sample module ready. It can be about anything that you consider your area of expertise, and what it does is it shows that not only do you have all that information rattling around in your brain, but you know how to make it accessible to other people to pick up so you could not only recite it or use it on your job, but you can help teach other people how to use it in their jobs as well. It's it's definitely a skill that it comes naturally to some people. Some people are natural teachers, some people aren't. But you can always develop the skill to be an instructional designer, whether you're a natural teacher or not, because you're not really teaching the material so much as organizing it in a way that allows other people toe learn it. And there is a distinction there. It's it's the difference between standing up in front of the class and talking about the material versus just putting it all down on paper in a way that maybe somebody else could train it. Or that they could learn it online without even having that intermediary person who's quote unquote training. You know the material. So I think the way to get noticed is, too. Study the basics of instructional design. The, uh, for instance, the ATI Development model. You

[00:28:34] spk_0: read my mind. I was about to say, Give us the basic study the basics. What are we studying

[00:28:38] spk_1: here? Basics. Air. Definitely three things. It's how do you organize your material? How do you develop the learning from that material? And how do you ensure that the learners learn the material? So it's really, you know, it's kind of Ah, start in process. Finished sort of. Ah, process. I guess there's a flow to it. And Addie is basically Step two. Um, step one would be for the very basics. If we're looking at the foundations of instructional design, Step one would be to look at Bloom's taxonomy for learning objectives because we can't have learning until we know what the objective of the learning is. And

[00:29:26] spk_0: before we go to four analyze designed to fellow implementation and evaluation a k a. Eddy. So if anybody is trying to figure out doing it like a Web search for who is this Eddie Teoh?

[00:29:43] spk_1: And that is an acronym. Yeah, go ahead. Concerns? Yeah. Step when you set those objectives for the learning and the objectives air literally like. Okay. So, Sheldon, your safety specialist, give me a topic that you might be developing some training on right now.

[00:29:59] spk_0: Kobe going before everybody is one encoded 19 training right now.

[00:30:05] spk_1: Sure. Okay. Great. Perfect. So let's just say that a company comes to you and says, Sheldon, you're the occupational safety and health specialist and we need some information for our team on Cove It I'm assuming one of your first questions is what team? Who are they and what are they doing? Because you're going to train people differently who are working in the drive thru counter of a fast food restaurant differently? Then you would a nurse who is caring for elderly patients at a nursing home versus people who are working in, say, manufacturing on a machine in a factory, right

[00:30:48] spk_0: one industry. And then what level in the industry?

[00:30:51] spk_1: Yeah, so they have totally different these. So you can't just say Okay, I'll create a training and cove it and then go off and create a training on, you know, making sure that you, um, sterilize your instruments between patients. When you're not talking to an industry person who has patients, they're working on machinery with nobody else around about themselves. But they still need to sterilize their, you know, equipment, their factory equipment when they're done, for instance, So first question is, who are the learners and what do we need to have them learn? Basically, what do they need to do with the information about covert 19? It's not. We don't need to train them about the history of covert 19 and the biological variations that happened in the virus to make this so pandemic thing that I don't care about the history of Grover 19. We care about what do the people who your training need to do with the information. So Step one. And that's where Bloom's taxonomy comes in because Bloom categorized learning from really, really basic, which is just sort of understanding the concept that you're trading all the way up in I don't even remember. I think it's like six levels of understanding all the way up to being able Teoh. Basically, I'm a trainer of that yourself. So from just, you know, recognizing information about it, the real basic kind of training all the way up. Teoh, I have no I learned so much about this topic that I can go and do it myself without further training and every step in between. So Bloom's taxonomy helps you figure out those goals and how to state those goals.

[00:32:25] spk_0: Yeah, truly when you're you're thinking of Bluetec Sana me you're thinking of instead of saying in your in your objectives, describe what serves cov to means, and your next sentence might be understand? What of the the controls of all of the cove in 19 you kind of have to go beyond describing. Understand. After a while you have to dig deep in some of those infected so it doesn't get boring and believes Texas takes on. We kind of like it shows you all these different words in the same sub in the same name category. I will kind of liven up your objectives a little bit, and it will help. Really visualize, for the person who's reading is what they're going to get at the end of this module or the end of this training. So that really helps them understand what to expect when they finished. Whatever you're teaching module our course life that my describing that correctly,

[00:33:33] spk_1: yes, although there's actually more. Not only does it help you come up with different ways to state it, but Bloom's taxonomy has a secret built into it. And that is that, Yeah, you come up with measurable outcomes by using Bloom's taxonomy because let's just say that you have that objective. Sheldon, you want your learner to quote unquote understand the disinfecting procedure for this bread slicing machine, for instance, how do you measure if somebody understands it, you can't. You can't look inside their head and see their brain and see the little wheels in their brain moving and measure understanding. But what you can measure and it's interesting that you said described because describe is actually a basic level. Bloom's taxonomy approved verb. Because you can measure if somebody's describing something accurately, it's testable. It's measurable. So understand is not a bloom's taxonomy. Ver believe it or not, recognize is actually Bloom's taxonomy because again it allows you to measure. Did they accurately recognise the steps to disinfecting their machine? Did they accurately describe the steps to disinfection disinfecting their machine? Can they recite the steps to thes air all permutations of the same thing? And that's where you get that variety and verbs that you mentioned but also brings in the measurable results. You know,

[00:35:03] spk_0: I've never thought of it that way, even though I've been using for all the courses have done, and I've never actually known the secret hot. So that is also. And now that you're saying it makes you think

[00:35:19] spk_1: that's only for people who have actually taken instructional design, college

[00:35:24] spk_0: were in. I've got to know Yeah, Thanks, B b do get you.

[00:35:35] spk_1: So yeah, that is the secret. Behind blooms is everything that you use that as Bloom's taxonomy approved is measurable. Which goes back to my wish. Number one, that we did more measuring

[00:35:47] spk_0: instrumental design. Yeah, that's part cause actually is because I do it. And I've been doing it like a stated as just to make sure I switched the words around a little cause I remember I had one one actual, um, potential claim at the time, they wanted me to do some work in the U A. E. And I was gonna go out there and I needed to give him a description of this point. I was going to be a waste water specialist. Is another one of my SME hats for for environmental. So I went out there, or at least I was going to go out there and I was giving them this objective of the course, and I had to truly write it all out. Tom was going to do and person just said, It's another way you could describe this. We can't have the same words over over again. And I was like, Oh, and this is years and years ago. So that's when I discovered Tech. Sodomy is truly someone just challenged create of like All right, I gotta switches thing up. So since then, my mind has always been thinking mad, and I didn't know this secret. You unlocked something for me there, Jennifer.

[00:36:55] spk_1: I'm so glad to have helped. And the fact that each of the levels of Bloom's taxonomy describes Mawr involvement with the learning and a more robust outcome. Describe is, like I said, the very basic. That's level one. If you describe something it means, you know, just like if you go to school in high school and you're, like, so bored by this particular class, it's not your thing. But at the end of the class, you remember a few things about it that's like level one of Bloom's taxonomy. But that class that you took on purpose because you love it and you actually paid out of your pocket for a course and you like, are so absorbed you're gonna have a lot more engagement with that learning, and you're gonna understand it more and you're going Teoh, use it more, and so then you're kind of getting into the higher levels of Bloom's taxonomy where you're applying your maybe creating something new

[00:37:45] spk_0: based learning impairments, create and have all those words on the create. Yep. You got it. Oh, wow. Okay, I three, you like Way off. Go ahead. Keep going. Because you're so into this.

[00:37:59] spk_1: Cool. Yeah. So? So then they're stepped to. And that's the ATI design process. And there are many design processes. Addy is the most well known, and it's the most well used because it's the most logical. And as you mentioned the Addy process stands for Well, here you go ahead. And

[00:38:17] spk_0: Stadio? Yeah, Actually, I cheated because I had to look that up. I will tell you I am cheating straight up, cheating, analyzed design and development implementation evaluation. I've used it before. I know it, But every time I'm asked is the it. I always forget him where I put him in different orders to D's in particular.

[00:38:39] spk_1: Yeah, but it's just I mean, it's so simple because it's really just describing the flow of how you build learning. Of course, you're gonna analyze at first what? You can't evaluate it until you've analyzed it. You can't build it until you've, you know, design it. So is to me. Addie Lake is kindergarten stuff that I don't even think about anymore because it's literally just It just makes logical sense. You you can't build until you've designed, and you can't evaluate what you built until you build it. So it's literally just the flow of how you do your work. So whatever, that's no big deal to me. Eso blue This is way more important to me to step one. Then there's how you design the learning. And then Step three is actually sort of taking the design and development part of Addy and extrapolating it out into a new process of its own. And that is gag knees, nine events of instruction. And that is how the learner actually walks through, learning how you design the learning itself so that the learner will get the most out of it. So then the nine events I don't have to like, mean them all off because it's very, very easy to Google. G. A. G and E is gag me, but it's basically taking the Addy module or that e model for developing, learning and telling you what to do during the design and development stage. So it's another model that sort of describes the flow. It's basically you got to start by getting the students attention, blooding them, know why they're learning and what they're going to gain from the learning, which is the objectives you want to remind them of prior learning they've had on the subject. Like even if if your heart getting back to some previous training that you've done like you remember a month ago, we talked about how to sterilize your equipment after you use it. Well, let's build on that a little bit and talk about sterilizing the, um, you know, the near your hands after you've used your equipment, though, now that you know how to do this, let's do this now, Siri

[00:40:41] spk_0: remind on your you're adding to their knowledge with some other aspect of something similar, I guess, to to it, you need them to know

[00:40:52] spk_1: Yeah, which is very important for adult learners and especially in workplace situations. When you're doing corporate or occupational learning, you may not have done previous training, but everybody knows something on the job, even if their brand new they worked there a week. They still can relate what you're talking about you something that they've learned on the job already, or something that they've done previously in their life. So it's really just making a framework for what we will be talking about in the training and how to relate it to something that they already know about. It could be like saying, You know how when you bake a cookie, you have to start with a whole bunch of dry ingredients and you land in a bunch of red and green, you know that that could be how you actually start. The training is by relating whatever your training to something that everybody's done before. So that's the third event of Cagney's night events, which is stimulate recall of prior learning. And then you present the content. I mean, that makes sense. Of course, eso that's like the bulk of what you're doing is presenting the content that step for and then you want to provide learner guidance, which is helping them translate it. Teoh on the job performance on guiding them in applying the learning that kind of goes along with the illicit performance, which is step six, provide feedback where you help them understand what they may or may not be understanding.

[00:42:18] spk_0: Tell him what they don't know.

[00:42:21] spk_1: Like if you've trained something for a day and then at the end of the day somebody raises their hand and they're like, Let's go back to what we talked about before lunch I got lost, and that kind of affected the rest of my learning. Uh, then you can help them pick up that knowledge that they may have missed and referring him the rest of the day's training. Now, with that new knowledge performance, So maybe they take a test, you can assess performance by giving them an assessment of how well they learned. And if they get 80% or better on their test at the end of the day, then you know that they have reached a certain level of comprehension proficiency right on and then the ninth event is super important. It's enhanced retention and transfer to the job, and that is like techie industrial or instructional designs speak for giving them something that will help them remember what they learned today and how to use it so it could be what we call in the industry a job aid, which could be like a PdF or a print out that gives them the steps of the of the instructions that you gave them. Like, you know, if you're training them on the proper use of a machine, you give him a hand out that shows, you know, steps one through town of running the machine or give him a checklist. Don't forget to do these things prior to taking off on the plane. You know, you get your preflight checklist. Um, along with that, you remind them how to apply the learning to what they need it most for, which is their job. So the learning might be more theoretical at the end of the day. They need to know how to apply it to their work. And that's also part of the ninth event of instruction. Forget

[00:44:09] spk_0: what would you do? Something like like giving them steps of the job in, like, different orders. And then they have to go ahead and put it back in the in the logical step. And that proves that they've got the learning or you don't even want to mess with the brains like that.

[00:44:29] spk_1: Oh, no, that's a wonderful way to assess performance that would that would be a fantastic eighth events of the Cagney's nine events to assess their performance, assess their learning, basically to have them do a rearrangement of the steps so that you know that they know the flow of the process is perfect or ah, matching exercise. Or, you know, true or false test or a multiple choice test or a demonstration I love when you can actually do in person demonstrations of what you learned. If I were being trained on a process and then someone watched me do that process and corrected me where I was wrong or where I had misunderstood stuff, I'm gonna learn that so much better than if I just have it in my head. And then three weeks later, I'm doing the process for the first time. And I'm like, Oh, crap, I don't remember what goes where,

[00:45:21] spk_0: and this is the wrong time to not remember it.

[00:45:25] spk_1: Yeah, I'm literally about to run this machine and get me a job. E don't have my checklist and nobody walked me through it. And now what are you?

[00:45:32] spk_0: Yeah, So at this point, you're like, Oh, I wish I had that checklist. I want that checklist. That's what I want right now. Just

[00:45:40] spk_1: remember, as a subject matter expert, you know all this stuff, but the people that you are training that you're writing this instruction for, they don't know all this stuff. And not not only that, they don't need to know all that stuff. You have the whole history of your job or your machine or your process in your head. But your learners don't need to know the back history. They need to know what they need to know now and what they need to know next week when they're using it on the job. So that's a huge take away two.

[00:46:11] spk_0: Excellent. No, you have probably hit on some of the special sauce in some of the things that you do. So I don't want to give away too much. But Aziz thes SNP's. We're listening to this. How do they become the instructional designers? Favorite sme where they'll say All right, I want to go with Sheldon because I love the way that he does this. When they when he delivers a product to me, is there Is there any sense thing.

[00:46:41] spk_1: Oh, yes. Thank you for asking a zone instructional designer who works with a lot of s Amis, I can tell you that if you just hand me a pile of papers and say it's all in there. Good, Good. I'm not gonna like you juices. Yeah, brains. Here are 18 books and 23 research reports. It's all in there. Just find it and put it, Teoh, That's not what I'm working with you. Is it sme for, um, I What I love and an SME is if they ask questions about who the audience is, what their knowledge level is like you said before, what do they know coming in. And what do we need them to do differently? Um, and I might be actually telling you that, or you might be telling me that it could be I don't know anything about the topic. And I'm just helping you shape at Mia's instructional designer helping you as a subject matter expert shape. You're learning through my knowledge of instructional design. Um, or you, as a subject matter expert, could actually be telling me what is most important. And then I actually build the learning based on You know your knowledge, it can can go both ways. Okay? There's a little different flow sometimes, Um, but, yeah, if you come to me with, say, a 60 slide power point presentation. But you take the time to highlight the key issues, the things that they need to know by the end of that training and then in a different color. Maybe. And I'm just talking, like, you know, a print out, even in a different color. Highlight the things that would be nice if they knew and knew how to do. And then in a third color, highlight the things that's just background information, and they can find it some other place. And we don't need to train it. Yeah, that would be the best place to start, because then we can start to break down the need to know into what we call Well, basically no. Like, completely blanking out on what

[00:48:48] spk_0: it must feel we're need to know or have to know.

[00:48:50] spk_1: Yeah, it's basically like a weaken. Cluster it into chunks, chunks of learning. If we look at all the nice to knows, we might see that there is a relationship between them and then we can start to put them together into, you know, modules that makes sense.

[00:49:06] spk_0: And for some of your estimates that are listening to this and there you're showing them to shoo in to get to get in there. What happens when they become hybrid like me and they're actually developing these courses, and now they're giving it to a second SME. And their job, basically, is to make it easier on that. Second, excuse me, they're giving it to instructional designer, but it's already gonna be halfway done. Or in my case is I am truly finishing everything, handing it over to them with I usually do a p A format. I don't know if if there's a preferred format, but what do you guys looking for when you get one that's been even more developed? And now you get it, and now you need to put it into some some storyboard. Is there anything else that we need to do like you? Another tip that might make it it a little bit easier for you. And when you get more complete work,

[00:50:06] spk_1: yeah, basically, I need to know what to take out, because I can tell you 99 times out of 100. The issue is gonna be There's too much stuff in there for the time involved, and there's no way you can literally just cram stuff into students. Brain this with your hands. Unfortunately, eso something's gonna have to go because we can't. We can't talk, you know, 90 miles an hour and cover 50 topics in an hour and expect them to walk away with any meaningful knowledge. They won't they'll remember 5% of what we covered. So you know what? Let's find the best, most important 5% and let's really fully flesh that out and make it the topic of that maybe hour of training. And then, you know, let's take the rest of the stuff and find the next most important five or 10% and do another training and then so on and so forth. So if you hand me 200 slide presentation and say I want to do a half hour training on this, I'm going to say, Alright, bring me. Bring me the most important 10 sides, you know which happens. It really like. People don't

[00:51:23] spk_0: really get that because truly I work in word count for most of my clients. And when they come to me, especially the people that need me to do courses for a New York city, they have the Department of buildings. They have really strict standard, and they want to see certain things in their courses. And for me, what I've been a guideline has always been right around the 6000 word mark for an hour. Course is really like that. The guideline for me, sometimes less, sometimes a little bit more, depending on what what else they're gonna put in. But right now it

[00:52:00] spk_1: was 6000 words for an hour

[00:52:03] spk_0: for an hour. Course is usually where they boils down to.

[00:52:07] spk_1: That's insane. No offense to anybody. Can you imagine somebody you know living 6000 words of information to you in an hour, which is okay, let me do my mask. That's what 100 words of minutes see, And I've always thought that and even towards a minute, and we're supposed to retain and hours with

[00:52:31] spk_0: and the ones in New York City, their courses air so unique that I have literally put in 10 to 11,000 words in 11 hour course and I'm like, literally. There's no way you could get this in an hour. But with me going line by line by line in the outline that the New York City, the D O B, which is the Department of Buildings one. And I'm writing this stuff from scratch for these companies. And I'm like they want more information than you could fit in an hour. And I deliver this material to people I can't even fathom giving this kind of information to people that this outlawing wants me to do in an hour. It's just not possible. Wow. So truly of what are you looking at for? For word count for an hour. If you guys think that way, I don't know if he very I've

[00:53:22] spk_1: never I've never encountered that wouldn't mention that earlier in this interview I need a pen and that I was gonna come back and ask you about it. I've literally never heard of a requirement of words per hour for training, and I've worked in a lot of regulatory environments and finance and health care. Wow. Yeah, I usually

[00:53:40] spk_0: 6005 seeing some courses with the 3000 range, but I would say and that's done. You know, 9000 is doubled, but I've seen where it's been 9000. Even with my quotes, I give me quotes and word count because I've had so many people ask me about word count that I just go ahead and give him quotes and word count. I had to write 100,000 word, of course, to there was a 30 hour course, 100,000 words. Eso.

[00:54:12] spk_1: So in those cases they don't care about, if people are walking away with measurable knowledge and behavior change, they just care about meeting a regulatory requirement. And they can show the script. And they can say this regulatory requirement was satisfied. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's going to be, and this is no offense to you or anybody who developed the instruction. Just because it's 6000 words or 10,000 words or 100,000 words does not mean that it's going to be quality or even moderate quality instruction. It could be it could be somebody could work

[00:54:46] spk_0: a miracle, but I see that would be

[00:54:48] spk_1: yeah, that would be lightning striking

[00:54:50] spk_0: Twice and again, I break them up into modules that I have to do. The quest quizzes after each module, so I am including quizzes, objectives, summaries in that word count as well. So the meat of the lesson, if I was gonna take out, was his summaries and objectives might be right around that. 3500 to to maybe maybe 4500. Workout. It's funny when you start writing blog's and you're looking at a regular page and a half blogged Teoh double space 12 font. You're probably thinking about 700 words there with, like, a nice page and a half block. So if you're really starting to think of 9000 words, then you're looking at the same double spaced new times robe, New crime from and right uh, times Roman. Yeah, 12 bullets. And then you get yourself double space. You're thinking that is probably if you're like a 3000 word document that's going to be about a good five pages under that criteria and probably a little bit more in depending. But surely it seems to me for an hour, if you're going to translate that to students, learning it might be too much in too much too little time. Am I correct in thinking that?

[00:56:22] spk_1: Oh, but I would 100% think so. There is. There's a process of learning and it's funny because we learned all day long, everyday, informally. And if you think about it, um, let's just say you start a new job as a, uh, you know, bakery processor, which I worked in a bakery factory, a baker factory for, like, four years from 15 to 19. And I was a slicer and packager is You know, when you're 15 years old and you're running, slicing machines and packaging machines, there's a little training involved. Yeah, so I mean, the training the first day they show you how to use the guards and not slice your finger off. But, you know, you learn more on the job just over time and, you know, making mistakes and seeing how other people do stuff and having the guy run up to you go. Oh, my gosh, Don't do that. You're just about Teoh. The's are all learning events, right? And if you think about it, it builds on itself. Nobody sat you down and talk to you for an hour about everything you need to know to work safely in a bakery environment. You just, you know, you get the basics, and then you sort of just born issue. Go, um, and and learning if you truly design instruction, if you're doing instructional design, you sort of build that process that that growth and the development of your learning you build it artificially in a specific period of time, such as an hour or a day or a week. But you still need to go through that sort of progress. You have to. I mean, if you're building quality learning, you're not. Just, for instance, I worked in a job once where they just literally took power points and put next buttons on the slide and call it alerting, Really? And that is not instructional design. It's not good quality learning design. It is. It satisfies a check box for somebody somewhere, which is fine, if that's all you need to do. If you literally just need to say yes, we trained on this topic. Here's the script. Here is the list of the people that took the training. Okay, fine. But I think most of us want to actually affect people more than that I think more more important is the assessment of the end. If if you're doing those assessments, I'm curious to see how people do. If the questions are reasonably difficult, that accurately gauge of people understood and learned from the training, is there a minimum passing score that people need to get it? The end of your, you know, 6000 word in our training? Yeah, and it will reach that. I

[00:59:04] spk_0: hope so, because I don't get to see that part, because by then they when the returning clients that let me know, you know, this course has been approved or something similar to that. So I get to see that part. But I never really get to see the student and took 11 was a big company in the They gave me a portal so I could get to see some things. But But usually I don't get to see that. And, uh, so it's it's kind of tough. And when I try to finish your thought first before even go,

[00:59:35] spk_1: Yeah, I was just going to say if if that were the case, I would just write the assessment questions so easy that people passed like at least 80 or 90% of the time, um, without necessarily having absorbed much, because, I mean, I hate to say it, but the very cynical part of me says, Well, if that's what the company wants, then they want a decent passing rate on, and that's how they're gonna keep hiring me. I would throw all this stuff, do it. Our I would make the assessment pretty easy. Not so that everyone gets 100% cause it looks way too easy. But I try to, you know, make it so that I know that people who only listened for 15% of the presentation are gonna pass that an 80% rate. And I'd throw it at them and say, Here you go

[01:00:16] spk_0: Well, people who were listening And if you've ever taken any of the OSHA has nine people who are proved to to give their OSHA 10 and 30 online and out of those nine people, they have a lot of resellers, so you may not even see the original nine. But I've worked for four out of the nine as an SME. So if you've ever gotten a quiz that said, that's this is my my signature quiz. I'll make sure that I put at least 2 to 3 questions on there that will say all the above and none of the above and that that is wrong. Eso if you if you have actually done that, you know,

[01:01:03] spk_1: because that's my going to Teoh.

[01:01:06] spk_0: Okay, so it's either minor Jennifer's quiz that you just taken.

[01:01:10] spk_1: I've never done anything for Osho, so it's gotta be yours. But that is totally my trick to give a B C D E. And the answer is one of a B or C, where D is all of the above and use none of the above its 90% of the time not going to be all or not,

[01:01:24] spk_0: absolutely. And I know those people that are just looking for all the above or none of the above, and I do guide in every single 20 test that I I do as an SME or a designer and just to get those people because shame on you, breathe my question.

[01:01:41] spk_1: If I ever have in all of the above, I always put in a none of the above so that it's not obvious unless again in the situation. We're just talking about where it's just a knowledge dump, and I just want to make sure people pass. Then, sure, I'll put it in all of the above, and it's clear that that's the answer. Go ahead and pick

[01:01:58] spk_0: it. Yeah, absolutely. And I do that on purpose because I figured it's enough that you you have to go through it, so I understand that. But you don't give up at the question. That's the quiz, because you're expecting, you know, on a nice little softball to go up. They engaged until you finish my quiz, right? I like it. Good, Good. Jennifer approved. It is All right, let me give you like, I know we're like, I don't want to steal your whole night. But if I could squeak this one in just personally because, of course, I have a safety consulting course that I do. And I designed this thing from scratch, and it came from my true life experiences as being a safety consultant and bumping along the way on. Then I decided, Well, I wrote a book first, and then I decided, Well, let me put this to a course. I could get more detailed in it. So I wrote my own course and everything. How I deliver it is I give everybody a module, they go through the module and it's actually me and I break it up into bite sized pieces. I'm doing a video presentation with Adobe Presenter if you've heard that program. So I use presenter so they could see me. They could see my power point when they use them. Sometimes I don't or I actually go online and we do stuff online and my my end of module instead of doing a quiz per se, I give him a challenge to say All right, you have to complete this next that we just talked about it. I showed you where to find it. And I started them all from, you know, filling out the information that they need to literally start their business with their own state so that they can have a l, l, C or S Corp or whatever. And then after that module were done, you go do it. And I do that with each module, you know. Here, get your e i N number. This is how you get your e i N number and explain it. I show him where to find it. Homework. Go do it. And truly, we do that with the whole thing from step to step. That might doing that right. Or do I need something else?

[01:04:13] spk_1: Now that is excellent instructional design, Aziz. Long as you have a mechanism where if they get stuck, they can reach out to you. I would say 100% 8 plus plus plus plus

[01:04:24] spk_0: All right, cause I actually any of my students has taken the course. I still talk to them and we send them emails like, periodically, I say, Hey, what's going on? I've had some on my podcast already just to coming. Encourage them. And, uh, I am all in. Whenever someone takes my course, we're doing this together, so that's one does. So I make sure that if I, even some people have projects that I can't do either by time or not my real house. So I'll just send it to a student say, Hey, can you do this? And if they can bend, then we'll do it with no no fee or anything. Just take it so well.

[01:05:03] spk_1: You're kind of creating a community of learners. And then once they've learned, uh, people who you can use this resource, which is, I think, a really great way to do it to.

[01:05:13] spk_0: All right. I figured while I got somebody who's instructional designing, I might as well ask because you're the pro 20 years to

[01:05:22] spk_1: break in a down into digestible, actionable learning and then giving them the opportunity to practice it itself is classically perfect instructional design. I couldn't ask for more if everybody just took that away from this discussion. That's really all they need to know that that's the new to have learning from this session

[01:05:44] spk_0: Mic drop. Yep. Buh my All right, Jennifer, give us plug any and everything you want. Just go ahead and go nuts. Plug.

[01:05:57] spk_1: Well, Night. My big huge deal right now is something that Shelter knows very well because he is going to be a guest on my own podcast a little bit earlier. But I'm starting a podcast, and it's actually all about how people can take their innate skills and talents and interests and turn it into their own work. Their own purpose based, passion based work that finds a niche in the market that people are willing to pay for, just like you did, Sheldon, where you created a new entire business around your knowledge of occupational safety and how to teach it. So Sheldon is actually a guest on my upcoming podcast, and you can find it at vocation creation dot com. I believe very much in building your life the way that you want to live it. And your vocation is such a huge part of that. So vocation creation dot com is my sights. And Sheldon, I'll be interviewing you in the next day or two. And I cannot wait for your listeners to be able to hear you on my show as well.

[01:07:00] spk_0: Hey, that's gonna be awesome. I can't wait. Think we got it set up for mid week, don't we?

[01:07:05] spk_1: It's coming right up.

[01:07:06] spk_0: All right. Be awesome. I can't wait. It will be good. Anything else? Like like if they need to hire you for any work, they reach you through the same website, or is that a different business or

[01:07:18] spk_1: Oh, yeah, that would be fine. If anybody even just wants to reach out and say they heard this interview and they have questions about instructional design as a subject matter expert in occupational safety. I am more than happy to help. Just let me know what I can do, and I'll answer any questions I have. And if anybody is interested in podcasts, development or audio recording or instructional design, just let me know and we'll we'll talk about it.

[01:07:46] spk_0: Yeah, if you need anybody for voiceover work, Jennifer's your girl

[01:07:51] spk_1: long as it's not too much and I don't get bored.

[01:07:53] spk_0: That's right. Are you stuck in a real for days? You got kids they want, but they won't be having that.

[01:07:59] spk_1: Please, no drug encyclopedia is no more.

[01:08:02] spk_0: Yes, that would be mind numbing. It could only just imagine and then for you having Teoh spell all that stuff out for you and say frenetically, I would imagine your that would have been a tough one.

[01:08:14] spk_1: Yeah, I took weeks. It took me. And then then I had to split it up word by word. So there were 1428 files to deliver. And this was far way before, like Dropbox and, you know, Google Drive. So it was e mailing them basically, in batches of 10.

[01:08:30] spk_0: I was just waiting for you to say floppy,

[01:08:33] spk_1: right? Wear basically and Iowa. But the time practically

[01:08:41] spk_0: those were the days. I'm glad those air Well, you've got mail,

[01:08:49] spk_1: Mom. Suites, you well, toe

[01:08:51] spk_0: weighted. Right. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on. And truly I appreciate it. Look forward to being on your podcast. Everyone, go ahead and get ahold of Jennifer. She is vocation creation. Right dot com dot com dot location creation dot com. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[01:09:20] spk_1: Yeah, I had a blast. Thank you for having me on and talking about this. Really? Really. I didn't even know how interesting subject is until I started talking about it.

[01:09:30] spk_0: It really is in everyone listening. They really they are going to love it because many of the people that listen to the show they are wanting to do what I do is instructional slash s and me s This'll is going to be what they need.

[01:09:48] spk_1: That's wonderful. I'm so glad to help. Thanks for giving me the opportunity.

[01:09:51] spk_0: All right. Thank you. Take care.

[01:09:54] spk_1: You too. Have a great night.

[01:09:55] spk_0: All right, you two, welcome back to the safety consultant podcast This'll week. We talked to Jennifer one soul. That was awesome. It was eye opening for me as being a sme slash instructional designer. I don't know. That's when I would be called. Tell you the truth, I really did not know And she enlightened me. So that was awesome. Getting that that information in, uh, well, before even go any further, let's do this. If you have not yet go ahead and like, can

[01:10:40] spk_1: you like podcast? Really Don't know.

[01:10:42] spk_0: I think it's just describe or not. So go ahead and describe to this podcast on, uh, put like like, make it so you could get my alerts because I'm truly going to start going into, um, doing more of these are weak. So my idea is, when I have a long interview like this, we're going to do part A and part B, which will be one, too, and I'll do that. I think Monday and Thursday might be the best days to do this thing on. And then, um, I think I'm gonna do a many to. And the mini it's gonna be right from around the 10 minute sweet spot mark and for that time, period. Uh, that's really what I'm gonna be looking to deliver some quick values. I don't know what I mean. Is there gonna be on yet? But it's coming. So go ahead and describe to this and whatever service you're listening to. So let's do the tip of the week. So here's the tip of the week. It's gonna be where it's completely self serving. Go ahead and say it right now I am. And it's gonna be so certain for a reason. I truly believe that the new version of my safety consultant blueprint course is going to really help you. Jennifer really gave me a nice understanding that, uh, that, Yes, I'm doing it the right way. So how it's set up is for each aspect of starting your business, we're breaking it down into its essential core elements. And then at the end of the module, you're going to go ahead and have action. You're going to go ahead and do this thing. That's really what it's gonna boil down to. So, first, if you want to, you can get a safety consultant blueprint dot com so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. But safety consultant blueprint dot com and truly what we're gonna do Oh, I have been doing in that one is teaching you little by little by little. And when I said that little by little by little, that's really what he meant just here. Here's your warning. Now let's do it. Here's your next learning. Now let's do that. So for instructional designer, when you're thinking about whether the structural designer needs to be able to do is to make sure that the people that are learning from them are actually doing well, understanding the course, right? So go ahead and do that, cause I'm really I'm kind of excited that this is gonna be something that's gonna help you. So Module one tell you a little bit about it is just gonna be the introduction. You're also going to get the free e book that's gonna go with it. Module two will be getting a legal So each thing that we have to do get your URL for your domain name, choose a name. Go get your l l c established. Get your I. R. S number local business permit your your guns and Bradstreet number you've got to get that it. Business insurance. I'll show you how to do that, including safety designations. Which one? How to choose the right one for you. That's all going to be in the first module or sticking module first Legends The introduction thin. The second one is branding Sure you had a brain yourself and will truly go step by step on how to brand yourself and market yourself the next modules all about giving clients and promoting yourself and then also doing a proposal that that is so key. So we're gonna show you how to do proposals. And I'm gonna give you some of my proposals to so you can actually see the structure of a proposal getting even teach you how to price your proposals. How much are your services? Worth said All that's going to be included in that module have been training tips. So next one will be training and speaking tips so well, really learn about presentations and how toe get those things looking good and delivering them so that people will be truly listening and getting in there. Then we're gonna talk about partnership model. You have to do this with other people. You can't do this alone. So if you partner with some really good organizations, they're gonna help propel your business instead of you trying to give out cards to every single person and networking meetings and head of those mind numbing, you know, one do any of that. So we're gonna to that together. Then we'll talk about making supplemental income and then truly, about how money really matters and we'll talk a little bit about that. And then I add in the module this new one for coded 19 including, like a rahm roundtable discussion about it, how to survive as a consultant during Cove in 19 then OSHA and what they're doing currently. So we get a little bit over that as well. So truly, this new and improved version of the safety consultant blueprint, you can find it at safety consultant blueprint dot com. And I am going to teach you little by little, the business of becoming a safety consultant. So it's not so daunting. That's the key. And then when you're done, you're into free. I don't want you go. Hold on to you. We do this thing together, so it's not just taking a course and one that done. We're actually going to go out there, and I'm going to help us keep in touch with you. Will also, if you need to get helping training with podcasts or anything else, even some businesses. Sometimes I can't do this work. I don't have the experience. So I need people like a trust to send my clients to, And that's what I'm gonna do. You gonna send them to you, and then you can provide some of the service to clients. So that's all part of this. So truly you can do this. I'm with you. All right. So that is the tip of the week If you're gonna be switching from SME to instructional designer or if you're just truly going to stay in the SM Ile realm, you know, hopefully this interview with Jennifer will really help you out because Chile has been just wonderful at a good time. And hopefully that you guys will also have a good time re listening to this again. Uh, if you need Teoh. Alright, So that's it for me. I think this episode has

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