In this episode of Property Investory we will learn about the importance of timing when buying property, and how your mindset can play into that. We hear about the perceptions people have of buyers agents in the digital age and just how wrong those ideas can be, how important it is to do your research, and he tells a story of when he found himself in the area of some of his properties and considered rolling out the red carpet!

Timestamps:
01:13 | Living the Expat Life
03:14 | The Banks Found Us Attractive
07:14 | Hey Siri, Play Bad Reputation
09:31 | For the Love of Leverage
13:01 | We Have Connections
14:53 | Buyers Agents Are Well Worth It
17:47 | Invest Your Time Wisely
22:01 | Hi, I’m the Landlord
26:25 | Keep Your Options Open
30:14 | Property is My Thing
32:48 | Mental Health Matters

Resources and Links:

[00:32:24] I'm in a country where there are people living on the street downstairs of the big apartment block that I live in, and they're the happiest people I see every single day. And a lot of people earning lots of money and living in these big jobs that we had, were quite stressed and miserable. And so I guess that was a real turning point.

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re back with property investor, Julian Khurgisara. After trying his hand in the tourism and accounting industries, he realised his calling was in property. We hear about the perceptions people have of buyers agents in the digital age and how he found himself driving past one of his properties and considered rolling out the red carpet!

Khursigara shares some of the lessons he’s learnt over the years, and reveals the turning point in his life and career he came across while working in India.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:00:23] Fortunately we haven't lost our shirt over anything. But you learn through these. Again, as much as I mentioned about trust, which is something my wife and I are big on, you get to trust people or you get to know them. Unfortunately in our industry there are spruikers. They're out there and they put on a really good tap dance and a lot of people get sucked in. 

[00:00:45] I just heard a story yesterday about another guy who bought two properties off someone and what they tend to do is sell their own developments. They also moonlight as a property strategist and obviously the strategy is to sell their own developments, which doesn't always work out for the buyer. I guess the worst story that comes to mind would be when my wife and I were fortunate enough through that marketing company that we worked for, to be selected to go and set up a business in India. 

[00:01:13] So sort of going back in time, we went back to India and lived in Bombay, Mumbai for three and a half years, which was a turning point in our life in regards to careers, but also our personal lives. In terms of teaching us a lot about ourselves and again coming back to that word about charity and being grateful for what we have. So that was a great time for us. 

With great success, Khursigara shares with us the next stage in their property journey and what happens next...

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:01:34] We came back and obviously did quite well, the company supported us very well. Our house, our home that I lived in here was rented out for all that time. We were well paid, had accommodation, we had drivers, we had all the things that you get when you're an expat overseas in Asia. 

 

[00:01:56] We came back and had done quite well out of that time away from Australia. So then we thought, 'Okay, well let's get back into the property game'. We liked the property game. But we got burnt like millions of others in 2008, by the beautiful acronym of GFC. Our thinking was, 'Let's put lots of money into the share market and let's leverage that with some margin funding'. 

[00:02:26] We put in all this money and said, 'It's okay, we're going to head to India now and make some more money'. We didn't want to get caught up in all of those things that aren't really that important in life. But we did, admittedly, get caught up in that world of reaching a certain level in our careers, where we really started doing well and lost all that money. I remember getting to India and within a couple of weeks, we had a letter from the bank saying, 'We're calling back that margin loan'. 

 

[00:02:52] We said to them, 'But we just paid for it', in response they said, 'Yeah, unfortunately, it crashed'. But that wasn't exclusive to us. It wasn't that that was a bad investment because that wiped out the whole of the financial world, basically. So we didn't really invest over that period, we just consolidated what we did in India, savings, everything else, we sent money back home every month. 

[00:03:14] And then said, 'Okay, let's get back into property'. We got caught up with a company and he gave us the classical dream about retiring and becoming rich and all these types of things. We were busy professionals so we didn't really have time to go around looking at houses and trying to select them. We were consultants, so we're very used to paying a consultant for their expertise. 

 

[00:03:40] Companies paid the businesses we worked in a lot of money for our expertise in loyalty and marketing and things like that. So it made sense to use a buyer's agent to find properties for us. It was still something that wasn't used by everyone, but it made total sense for us. So we went deep, we went fast, we bought four or five properties in one year. 

In this short space of time purchasing five properties with a buyers agent, Khursigara discovered a big lesson that he is reminded of every day.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:04:03] We were very attractive to the banks, we were high income earners, had very big equity in our home because we were able to build a lot of equity and there was a bit of growth over that period while we were away. After the GFC prices went up a little bit in property. So we had all the boxes ticked for the banks and went fast and went hard and bought properties. A lot of them were house and land packages.

[00:04:26] A couple were regional, but most of them were in Brisbane. Time heals all wounds, they're okay. But back then I didn't realise that whole area was highly commission geared and how that all works. Now I understand because I'm in it so we keep right away from it, but it was a learning experience. So the lesson there would be that we wouldn't trust someone so implicitly without doing some research ourselves. 

 

[00:04:56] Maybe take a deep breath. So a lot of times for our clients we say, 'Hey, let's just take our time, one at a time'. We have three pillars, which is low risk, positive cash flow and potential for growth. To us low risk is important. So when someone came to us the other day and said, 'Let's go, let's buy two', we said, 'No, no we're going to buy one at a time'. We get that first one right. 

 

[00:05:16] They say, 'But I've got the equity, I've got the money'. I said, 'That's okay, there's no rush'. Especially during the COVID period last year, one client said to me that their job was a little bit shaky. I said, 'Okay, we're not buying', to which they said, 'What do you mean, I've got the approval'. I said, 'Nope, we're gonna wait'. 

[00:05:30] I think people get shocked that we do that. But that's just the way Luke and I like to work. We really do want to do the best for our clients and do the best for them individually. Yes, we could easily have taken that money, bought some property and made some cash, but we know long term it's going to be in our benefit. We're seeing that now the business is doing really well.

Tyrone Shum:   

He reveals the moment it all clicked into place for him and what made him realise property was his future.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:08:14] Quite often I'll say, 'It's not only a game of property', we find that we have a lot of couples come to us wanting a unicorn. If they existed, we'd all have one, right? So we have to try to take their dream seriously, but also dampen a little bit of their enthusiasm and make sure they know that unicorns don't exist. We let them know that we will definitely find them a very good property deal and we'll show them that through our data lead research. 

  

[00:08:40] But that's something we have to focus on rather than the unicorn. So leveraging the bank is a game of finance, not really a game of property. So the banks at the moment are giving us good leverage to borrow. Yes they're still a bit tight, back in the day when I said that I bought five properties, there's no way I could do that today. To be honest, I don't recall even signing too many loan documents but we got five loans somehow. 

[00:09:07] So I won't spread that gospel too high, but I think we all know what happened because the Royal Commission outed all of that. Unfortunately that happens in all industries and it'll probably still happen in banks because no one really got in trouble for it. When the banks are offering us money, particularly at this rate and we're thinking the market’s getting a bit hot now, it's not a bad time to invest your money because you leave it in the bank at 1%. 

[00:09:31] The bank charges on top of that for holding your money, the next thing you know, you don't have a lot to show for it. So I think leverage is important. And it doesn't matter if it's shares or property or whatever you decide to move into, but leveraging is important. So I think the 'aha' moment would be leveraging. When the banks are offering money, you need to be in the right position to take money. 

  

[00:09:51] Right now I'm not because I'm in a new business. So you need to have a few years of returns as you know. Although in saying that, we've got very, very strong equity positioning and I've also got a wife in a very good corporate job. So we probably wouldn't have an issue if that was the case. The other thing is that whole positive cash flow and looking at areas for growth. 

[00:10:12] If you're finding the right areas for growth, you need to be doing your research on the metrics that bring growth. There's not one or two factors, it's an overlay of all these extra bits of data from ABS, to jobs, to infrastructure, to investment, to migration. Even to domestic migration, like what's happening in Brisbane, the Sunshine Coast went through the roof. 

[00:10:36] Not because of international migration, but because of the migration that's coming out of Victoria predominantly. So you've just got to overlay that data and use that. It's not 100% correct. Well, a lot of people unfortunately do guarantee you growth, but no one can guarantee growth because anyone who said that didn't predict COVID last year. 

 

[00:10:59] I think that's the best, most recent event that we can point to and say, 'Hey, be careful what you believe because no one predicted what happened last year'. So I think that overlay of data is key. For me, it would be leveraging the bank, understanding the research and like you said, you can do it now as it's online and a lot of it's free. We pay a lot of money for subscriptions to get very detailed data. 

[00:11:25] But not everyone needs to do that, you can really do it yourself and at least get a very good idea and be educated on those kind of things. Particularly unbiased data, where it's not someone trying to push you towards a particular area, or a particular product. If something's just a pure data source, not overlayed by people saying, 'Come and invest in Queensland' or 'Come and invest in New South Wales', I think that data can be taken as very good influences towards a property purchase. 

  

[00:11:55] The third aha moment would be to manufacture growth. So that could be through granny flats or through minor renovations. I'm not into big renovations or developments and things like that at this stage. I've bought land and built properties, but I haven't developed townhouses and apartments and things like that.

[00:12:14] Maybe I'll do it in the future. I know Luke's very heavily involved in a couple of groups, so hopefully we'll play Tic Tac and learn from each other on that somehow and we'll probably do something in the future together I'm sure. But for me it was more about understanding those metrics and using that to help us grow for ourselves. More importantly, it's about putting together an individual strategy for each of our clients.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:12:38] I love what you've said about those three key points, which are very important. I might just add to that, there are so many great people out there like yourself, people need to tap into that resource. When you combine all that, I think you'll be very well armed in looking at getting investments, especially if you're doing it for a long term build. 

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:13:01] I think it's not rocket science. We try to keep it simple. And we do a lot of mentoring. I've got a couple of young clients coming through at the moment to [buy] their first property and we love that. Luke and I love that these teenage boys, 19, 20 year olds finish up their apprenticeships and want to get into property. And we're like, 'Let us help you get your first one! But we're gonna educate you through the process, we're going to document it for you, we're going to mentor you through'. Luke's got qualifications in training and mentorship. And we've designed a course around it. 

[00:13:31] As you remember from the beginning of this conversation, the first business he set up was called First Time Property Investing. But what that business didn't have at the end was everyone— once he went through the course with them, I said, 'Okay, I need to buy a property now. Can you help me?' And so that's when he finally went, 'Ah! The aha moment is I need to also buy them a property as well, not just help them educate them!' Because he thought once educated, they go and buy it themselves, but people still are busy. They don't have time. 

[00:13:57] A client yesterday, very busy with the technology sector, earns very good money, he's going to probably spend close to $1 million on a property, but, ‘Can you help me renovate that? Do the pest and building [reports], can you get a decking put in there, can you rip the carpets up?’ And so we're not carpenters or experts in that but we have connections, we have teams of people who will manage that for them and get that done for them. They don't have time to go up to Brisbane every weekend and pay to rip carpets up so it just doesn't make sense. So we know we can be that one stop shop for a lot of busy people.

Coming up after the break, we hear his thoughts on buying property in the COVID era...

[00:18:12] I had a good example of someone last year who— what were the headlines last year, 30% property crash, don't buy property, it's going to be a nightmare— so everyone panicked and said ‘I'm not going to buy property.’ So fair enough. And no one knew how bad COVID was going to get and I accepted that. 

We learn about how your mindset changes as you age...

[00:25:40] We buy based on what we think and feel through research is a good long term strategy. So if someone comes to sell and retire in five years, it's a very different mindset strategy to someone who's the current client I've got who is in their 30s.

We hear about what his early love of reading taught him about property and about himself.

[00:29:30] I've got a bookshelf here full of property books. And just reading, reading, reading with a long term view. I always knew, or felt deep deep down that it was gonna be my future. I just didn't know when. 

And that’s up next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Tyrone Shum:  

Khursigara lets us in on why using a buyers agent may cost you upfront, but can save you money and stress in the long run.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:14:53] I guess that buyer's agent sector is still... people still grappling with that. 'Why would I pay someone to buy me a property? I'll do it myself'. And yet if they make a mistake, to spend $10,000 [or] $15,000 on a buyer's agent, for example, which I think is pretty much the range, then it's a pretty small fee for the amount of work that someone's going to do and help you get on that right path. So the other people would pay a selling agent, which is what a real estate agent is. 

 

[00:15:20] So in the US and Europe, a real estate agent is called a selling agent, because they're selling the property for you. They're not working for you, the buyer. Their job is to get the highest price for the vendor, not to get you the best price. So a lot of people go to the agent and try to get information but technically, the agent should be working for who's paying him which is his earning 2% or whatever it might be from the seller. And so a buyer's agent in the US, for example, is very common. Every time at an auction, or any negotiation, the selling agent and the buyer's agent come together, and they buy on behalf of the very mature market. 

[00:15:59] So in Australia, hopefully there'll be some regulation brought into the sector as well, to make it a bit stronger. Education wise, obviously, you have to have your real estate licences and things but it'd be good to have that stronger regulation in the sector, which a lot of the associations are trying to push for. Which will only benefit the sector as well, and also grow its popularity and appeal. It's just understanding 'Why would I spend money on someone to buy a property?' We can see it happening now. And it's good to be part of that movement. There’s a lot of good people out there, podcasts like yourself educating people and allowing us the opportunity to talk about our stories and what we do also helps.

Tyrone Shum:   

Mindset is key when it comes to strategy, and when it comes to using a buyers agent as well.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:17:47] It's a mindset thing, right, and also time. A lot of people say I've got no time, but yet they'll spend half their day researching property. But what I also find is mindset's very important for us and how we talk to our clients and educate them if they won't make the move. They will spend so many months and years analysing and paralysing themselves the data that they won't actually make the move. 

[00:18:12] I had a good example of someone last year who— what were the headlines last year, 30% property crash, don't buy property, it's going to be a nightmare— so everyone panicked and said I'm not going to buy property. So fair enough. And no one knew how bad COVID was going to get and I accepted that. But a lot of people just said, 'You guys are crazy, property's going to crash. Sell all your properties, don't hold on to them'. And what's happened— it's gone the other way. Now they believe in the headlines saying property is going to go up by 20%. So the next day everybody could believe the newspapers. 

[00:18:44] This particular client came back and said 'I'm ready to get that deal', it was actually on the Sunshine Coast. A really solid duplex deal. We work with a lot of boutique developers. So you build it for $820,000 and a nice big block of land and then you split it and you take 100,000 easy. You could almost guarantee $100,000 off the top once you split it, and then you're still getting very positive cash flow as well. So it's a very good strategy. 

[00:19:10] Now they came back and said they're ready to go. I said, 'Okay, so now it's closer to $950,000 [or] $960,000'. 'What do you mean, it was only eight months ago...?' I said, 'Yep. It's gone up $100,000. Just the land has gone up, not the house, the house will cost the same to build'. So these things happen. And they weren't wrong in their decision making process, but it's just that where do you get your information from? And sometimes, is the Daily Telegraph headline correct? Or is it better to talk to people in the industry? I'm not saying we're experts, but there's a lot of people you can talk to, to understand. Research is very important.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:19:42] Absolutely. It's like how Warren Buffett says, when the market's turning— and I'm paraphrasing here— that's when there's a lot of fear in the market. That's when you want to go in. When there's a lot of greed and things are going on, that's when you want to run as far away as possible. 

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:19:57] And now the market's quite hot, right? Yesterday Luke— we're just doing due diligence on a deal today, which is an off market deal, put it out to a client and he said grab it— And so we're going through it now, right? Going through due diligence on it, but you don't get those deals in a hot market. So a lot of people say, 'I'll do it myself'. But a real estate agent isn't going to call you, because he knows you're not ready to do that. Whereas he can call other buyer's agents who have clients' finances ready to buy and sell that property within a couple of days. They're going to take that call. 

 

[00:20:30] [When the market's] soft, then maybe the agent's got plenty of time on their hands, and have time to spend all day calling people up and give you off market information. But during these times, no punter off the street is going to be able to build the relationship that we've built over many, many, many years of working in the sector over a decade. You're not going to build that lead just by calling up a couple of agents in Kingston in Brisbane and saying, 'Hey, I'm looking to buy a property. Can you tell when you get off market deals?' It's very rare they're going to call you.

Tyrone Shum:   

He lets us in on how many properties are currently in his portfolio, and the current value they hold.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:22:01] We currently have 10 properties, including our family home. I was hoping you wouldn't ask me that question! Let me do a quick calculation. I guess that's probably in the vicinity in terms of its value of that would be around that $6 million mark of the value of those properties. In saying that, all but a couple of the investment properties— not my family home, obviously, there's a mortgage on that— but are all interest only. And that's for obvious investment reasons why we do it that way. So we're able to have some tax benefits from that as well, particularly now with the various properties. Some are higher geared and higher positive cash flow than others. And over a time when I was in the corporate world, and I was paying 49% tax, I was able to get my tax rate down to 30%, which was done through some smart use of property investment. 

Tyrone Shum:   

His strategy was initially based around wanting to find an alternative to the typical nine to five.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:23:25] You read a lot of books and the classical Robert Kiyosaki books and all these things when you're young. I grew up in a family where, as we discussed right at the outset, the parents came with nothing, had to work hard, high interest rates, bought a property, paid it off, bought a property, paid it off. I mean, will we ever even pay a property off? I don't know. Like, I'm not sure. I'm happy we've got our mortgages under control at home, but maybe we won't. 

[00:23:58] So I think it was more about just doing things a little bit different to the way it was, using our money wisely. Stock— I don't know what it was, shares didn't just make sense to me. And maybe it goes back to why I didn't study accounting! Maybe my brain is not that well aligned to understanding the whole share market and algorithms and things like that. So it's obviously the tangibility of property, right? We can see it, I can touch it, I can feel it. Even though out of those nine properties I mentioned, that one in Sydney I see, but the others I've never seen. 

[00:24:28] I was driving through Brisbane with Luke a few months back and I drove through Petrie. I've got a couple of properties there. And I said, 'I've got a couple of properties in this suburb, just go have a look'. And he said okay. We started to turn the car and he said, 'What are you gonna do there?' I'm like, '...Actually nothing, I don't know'. Like, I'm not gonna knock on the door and say, 'Hey, I'm the landlord. How are you?' We just turned around and kept going, right? So it's kind of funny, you don't buy them because you want to do the garden and mow the lawns for it. 

[00:24:58] There's some good out of property investing, I've seen people who can't afford to buy, get to rent, and get roofs over their heads. That's obviously an important factor, why the government still stimulate the sector. From a personal perspective, obviously there is that leverage and that time in the market. So if you invest, and yes, we do go through some ups and downs. And they [was] that eight year period that everyone forgets about, conveniently, where Sydney didn't move, and Melbourne didn't move, and Brisbane didn't move. They haven't all done it, luckily, at the same time. And that's why we want to diversify and have properties in different states and different cities in different areas, and not just buy next door because that's where I grew up, and I want to buy next door to Mum and Dad. 

  

[00:25:40] We buy based on what we think and feel through research is a good long term strategy. So if someone comes to sell and retire in five years, it's a very different mindset strategy to someone who's the current client I've got who is in their 30s. A professional working for a firm, they can afford to go hard now and then watch it grow over that 20 year period, because they're not retiring any time soon. So I guess that's what the outset was, to build a bit of a portfolio. And I think the word I use— probably, when you're young people try to spruik you and talk about 'Don't you want to retire at 45? Don’t you want to retire at 50?’ And maybe when you're 25 or 30, you probably think 'Yeah, that'd be great'. 

[00:26:25] But I don't! I want to work forever! Like, I love working, I love talking to people and helping people build a portfolio. So I'd love to keep working. So I don't have that mindset in my mind, or even my wife. She works in a corporate firm, and she wants to work until she's 70 if she can, she said. It was more about the word, I think it's one word for us, it's options. That option could be if you wanted to, once the kids are done and dusted with school— and maybe uni, I guess we won't get rid of them that quick, they live with us for a while longer, especially when they get their breakfast made for them every morning— we get the options to travel, it could be an option to help our children if we can and decide to do that, it could be the option to... from a charital perspective as well, what options can we have there that help our community or other communities that we're involved in.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:27:16] I'm the same, I can't see myself retiring at all. I mean, I like the idea of having that, I want to be able to maybe take off 12 months or something like that, and take my kids travelling around the world, let them experience different cultures, do so many wonderful things. But having that option to not worry about the finances and how we support ourselves to do those kinds of things— that's what I love.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:27:45] I think we've got to look after our health and our mind and keep that healthy as well, and then we can take advantage of those options. I love hiking and walking. I've done a few trips to Nepal over the years as a younger guy, but I'd love to do something with my wife and walk through the wine fields of France, Italy, and Spain and do all these types of things. That'd be pretty fun. So yeah, right now, it's working hard within balance, obviously still ensuring we look after our health and our minds and our bodies and our families. And then when the time's right, we're still lucky enough to have holidays, and spend some good quality time with the children and our friends, which is incredible.

Tyrone Shum:   

While he didn’t necessarily have any mentors, Khursigara took a different, more DIY style approach to his personal development.

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:28:32] I didn't have any official mentors and I know that there are quite a few out there now which are coming through, which is quite good. In fact Luke's done quite a bit of mentoring to young people as well as I mentioned. I guess mine was more education, just immersing myself in the sector and the classical seminars, reading books. My wife has always— particularly back in the day when podcasts started coming out— I always had my earphones in my ears like yourself and walk around the house if I'm lawn mowing or gardening or cleaning the pool or doing whatever, exercising, I was always listening to property podcasts. And back then there was only a few, now there's... there must be 50 or 60 good ones to listen to. 

[00:29:27] So that was probably my education. And then books, I've got a bookshelf here full of property books. And just reading, reading, reading with a long term view. I always knew, or felt deep deep down that it was gonna be my future. I just didn't know when. Because we get a little bit, let's face it, that golden handcuffs of the corporate world. Lots of things for a little while. And then through certain circumstances— for me it was a redundancy package through a company that I worked for, an American company, and we sold the business in the US— so we then had to make some changes to the business in Australia and had to unfortunately let go of some people. And then once you do that and restructure the business, they kind of look at you a second and say, thanks for that. We might have run out of room for you at the top. 

 

[00:30:14] And these things happen. And it's happened a couple of times to me now. And I see it happening to friends now as well, we're getting into your late 40s, and some friends into their 50s. And it happens, and it's much harder to get those senior roles when you're at that age group. So in your 30s, you're bulletproof, you can never almost lose a job. I guess I started thinking about what is the next step, am I going to be in the corporate world the rest of my life? And I guess I've always been entrepreneurial, I've worked for entrepreneurial companies. I've never worked for the big, huge corporations, it’s always been entrepreneurial sort of companies. 

[00:30:50] And even when they were big, I worked for companies in America, in Switzerland, where I set up the business for them in Australia. So I like building things. So it always made sense that I was going to do something and I've tried a few different things. And we're trying to build a digital app business as well. So I always knew that property was going to be my thing. And it kind of made sense from the data side of marketing that I always understood research and data. And then selling techniques and how to talk to people, but I think a lot of it is just about the ethics and the integrity of the business.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:31:27] So if you met yourself 10 years ago, what would you have said to him?

Julian Khursigara:  

[00:31:44] Probably 'Don't get ahead of yourself'. So 10 years ago, I was living in India. As I mentioned, we were doing really well, and the bright lights maybe got into my eyes a bit. My wife would probably say the same thing. So I think I would say to myself back then, 'Just don't get ahead of yourself'. Remember the grounding of your life and the lessons you've learnt through your family and the people you hang out with, as we say, we are the sum of the five people we are closest to. And just remember those things. And I mentioned that India had a big change for my mindset in life. And because we did luckily pick up that lesson there to say we're very lucky to see what we have in this country. 

[00:32:24] I'm in a country where there are people living on the street downstairs of the big apartment block that I live in, and they're the happiest people I see every single day. And a lot of people earning lots of money and living in these big jobs that we had, were quite stressed and miserable. And so I guess that was a real turning point. So I think that's what I would say, just take a deep breath, be grounded and be grateful. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:32:48] Where do you see yourself and your family and what you're currently doing in the next five years?

Julian Khursigara:  

[00:33:04] My girls will be... five years time... nine... they'll be finished high school by then, both of them. So that'd be great. Because they're in private school. So that'll help our bank balance a little bit! I'd see them potentially being at university or doing something like that, probably living with us, hopefully living with us, even though sometimes we'd love them to be elsewhere! 

[00:33:28] And I think probably doing similar things in terms of loving our jobs, both my wife and I love what we do. I'd hope in five years' time our business would be in another phase of where it is at the moment, where we could probably give back a little bit more, employ some people to build their careers. The main thing is to stay fit and healthy. That's something we really work hard on as a family. But it's not just your body, it's your mind as well. 

[00:33:56] Luke and I both volunteer at Lifeline at the calls for crisis suicide call centre. So we obviously are trained on how to talk to people through that process. So I think it's important for us to look at that as well. I probably see myself doing maybe some more hours there as well as what we're currently doing in our business and our family. 

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:34:19] So Julian, you've achieved a lot of great success out of your whole journey. And I'm really appreciative that you shared such a great journey. How much of that has been due to your intelligence, hard work and skill? And how much of it do you think is because of luck?

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:34:54] I'm a big believer in you make your own luck, and I think you have to put in the hard yards. So intelligence, yeah, I don't think I'm overly intelligent in the classical sense. But I think I'm pretty learned. I think I read a lot. I say to people I have a lot of common sense! And sometimes that's not all that common. And I've noticed that in the corporate world, particularly where sometimes common sense wasn't all that common in some of the higher positions and senior executive and management roles. 

 

[00:35:29] I think a lot of it is hard work and perseverance. Getting up when you get knocked down and not crying over spilt milk, so to speak. Unfortunately we sometimes have to dust ourselves off and maybe hide in the corner for a day or two, but you realise that you've just got to keep going and keep strong. And if you keep putting in and keep doing the right things, and holding on to your integrity and doing the right things... I've been around a lot and I've seen a lot of unethical behaviours in business. And I kind of just tried to focus on the morals that I got brought up with and what I like to live in life. And I think eventually, you start to get repaid. 

[00:36:11] Sometimes yeah, there are some people out there I know very much, they're doing some really bad things in the property sector, particularly. And they're still growing bigger and bigger and bigger, and you can worry about them and get jealous and [wonder] 'Why are they driving fancy cars and living on the water in $5 million homes?' Or you can just focus on what you can do and control the controller, which is what I do and what I do for my clients' community and in our business, and ensuring that our value systems in our business align with our personal values as well.

Tyrone Shum:   

[00:36:43] Right. I guess how much do you think it was because of luck, though?

Julian Khursigara:   

[00:36:47] I have to say there is a lot of luck, because sometimes how do you get into that certain, how does that come to you? How does that person come into your life out of nowhere? How do you bump into someone on a plane— which has happened to me— and next thing you're having a chat and that happened? Is that luck? Yeah, I guess that's luck. Is it coincidence? Was it always meant to happen? Was it always the path you're meant to go down? 

[00:37:16] I love a book called The Alchemist, a Spanish author, I don't know if you've read that one. It's a lot about that, right? Whether you get what you're destined for and whether you can create your own destiny, whether it just happens. And so I'm a big believer. I guess as I've got older as well, sometimes it comes by experience. I'd use the word luck a lot more and think 'Oh, that person is lucky. They're lucky they got that job'. But I guess I believe if you put in the hard work, luck will come your way as well.

Thank you to Julian Khursigara, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.