In today’s episode, we’ll explore the incredible twists and turns of her storied life, taking her from country NSW to New York City. Plus, how she’s managed to be her own boss for nearly thirty years!

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[21:00] there was nothing really that I didn't think that I could do. I wanted to leave home, so I left. I wanted to go to the US, So I did. I wanted to work in nightclubs, so I did. I wanted to model so I did. And we just kind of like made the decision. And then I'd figure out how to do it.

 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Ludwina Dautovic, founder of the Room Xchange. We’ll talk about the incredible twists and turns of her storied life, taking her from country NSW to New York City. Plus, how she’s managed to be her own boss for nearly thirty years and filling a gap to solve the Australia housing crisis.

 

Dautovic has already had some career. She’s worked around the world in nightclubs, founded multiple companies, worked in TV production and hosted a record-breaking podcast. Her latest endeavour The Room Xchange was created to solve the problem of Australia’s housing crisis. There's over 13.5 million  unused spare bedrooms in 10 million homes across the country. It’s Australia's first verified house sharing platform and is already a multi award winning company as an Australian Small Business Award finalist in 2019. Unsurprisingly, Dautovic’s typical day is never the same.

 

[6:58] I think we're still at the moment because of post COVID, we lost a couple of years in COVID. So, as you can imagine no one was opening up the front doors to House Share at that time. So, in a way we’ve had to go back to sort of like the starting phase, but not the startup phase, if that makes sense. We had to rebuild the data, rebuild the brand and make it more compatible with what's happening now. So, there's still a bit of having to do the mundane and day-to-day things of marketing and social to then having to make business decisions about ell finances and targets and data and all the things that go along with having shareholders and the challenges that you have as a leader and CEO. 

[7:43] But when you still have a pretty small team, we've all sort of got a few multilayers in terms of what we do. But I would say that, generally, there's at least a couple of interviews a week, I get a lot of media, which has been wonderful. But we've come at a time where something like the Room Xchange is really needed, because we're in a rental crisis. So there's a lot of conversations that I'm having around that have my own podcast show as well as the interviewing there. So, it's usually about three or four interviews a week all up communicating with my advisors. And I'm talking a lot with government at the moment, we've made some major inroads with the treasurer of Victoria and various different aspects of government to put submissions in next year for the budget to get some regional areas piloted, as in specific geographical test ranges for the room exchange. That's been great. 

[8:39] A lot of networking.  Well, at least one networking event we'd like to get out. I do a lot of networking on LinkedIn too. I have to say, I think I've pretty well nailed that one. But there is a key to anyone is listening, if you just send out cold messages, and you expect me to respond, it's not going to happen. You've got to have a bit of love, a bit of connection, a bit of care around that. And if you do that, well then that comes out. So it's a cross section of things, but I'm very regimented in my day. I know from this side of my day, exactly what I'm going to be doing that day, but also the big things that I want to accomplish through the week. And I'm very calendar driven. So, if there's something where I need a chunk of time to put a document or proposal together, there's two hours that actually get wiped out in my calendar, so no one can come in and book a call and take my time for me. I'm also very aware of when I'm at my most alert, and when I'm not and so I I categorize my activity throughout the day, depending on that. A couple of days I go into Footscray.  I've now got an office in there that I can go to a couple of days a week at the cotton mills which is amazing. So just gets me out of the house. But mostly I work from home because I do like the convenience of it and I've always done it and I manage the separation of home and business very well. So I don't find it a difficult thing to do. But I do like to get out sometimes as well. It's good for my mind.

As busy and varied as Dautovic’s days are now, her road to get here is just as unique. 

[10:31] I grew up in a little country town, in New South Wales, little as in 500 people, like really little.

[10:45] It was an interesting upbringing. My brother and I were the only coloured kids in town. And I say that, because that's how we were referred to, plus a whole lot of other things. So my upbringing, it's very small town with— I've been talking a lot about it this week so I've actually been reflecting a lot on it. It was a very unusual upbringing. I wasn't raised with my Indian culture, I had a wonderful mother and wonderful stepfather, both white parents and my brother Tony and I. it was just kind of,it was an upbringing where the parents did the best that they could with the resources that they had. 

[11:18] But it was part of that time when I don't think there was a real recognition of the importance of culture, particularly when you come from a different environment. So I was always kind of on the defensive as a kid, constantly afraid, very wary, very shy, very quiet, which is really interesting, considering you who I became after I left home. But I think that's probably why music was my thing as a kid. I loved music, classical music, and I played a bunch of instruments and wanted to get into music conservatory. But it wasn't on the cards for me. So I finished school at the end of year 10, which you could do back then, because I started school early. I was only 15 and started working in a supermarket. But I started modeling when I was about 10. So I've always done some kind of work, there's always been something that I've always done in some kind of performance as well, particularly with the music. 

Dautovic’s upbringing was full of interesting experiences which have shaped her into the woman she is today. However, looking back, some were definitely better than others. 

[12:21]  I think that sort of helped me to sort of come out of myself a little bit and had some kind of ownership of self. But beyond that, there was a lot of insecurity, a lot of confusion. And just kind of just going day by day really close with my siblings, there’s a great relationship there, lots of love in the house. But just a very unusual town. A very unusual town. I go back now and it's like when I see some of the kids that used to give me a really hard time. Thankfully, they've come back, and they've recognized the error of their ways. But at the time, when you're very young, the impact can actually be quite devastating and harsh. I don't know if you've experienced that. Where you grew up if you experienced a similar thing. And it's still interesting. Even up until just a couple of weeks ago, I experienced something which wasn't a direct form of racism, but it was indirectly, and I'm a little slow on the uptake. Sometimes I don't know if you are, but I go away and then I went "I think she was just actually being racist." And sometimes it can just be kind of really subdued and subtle. And I was just like, ‘Oh, gosh, the poor thing. She didn't even know what she did.’ And I kind of had empathy for her because at that stage, It just doesn't faze me anymore. But it's just interesting how it's kind of those little heat buttons I call them. They say, ‘Oh, where did that come from?’ That was from there, from back home

For Dautovic, the mixed bag of childhood was left in the past quickly. Her sense of adventure was just too strong. 

[17:53] I was 16 when I left home. I had $200 in my pocket and a place to stay for a couple of weeks. [18:03] I wonder often if it's because I was a firstborn, and also too with the challenges that we face because of my childhood story, if that actually created this level of self sufficiency and inner strength within myself.  I look at all experiences, whether they're good or bad, and the the impact that they have. The impact can be good, even though it was a bad experience, right?  And I can see that a lot of that has given me the ability to just be able to decide and do things for myself. I think the decision of leaving home when I was 16 was a key turning point in my life. Because if I had the courage to do that, that was also my first big reference point is the way that I actually language it. So anything sort of beyond that there was like, ‘If I can do that, then I can do this!’ 

Ludwina Dautovic   

[18:52] And then obviously, the next reference point became bigger and it became bigger, and I sort of went on from there. So, I went to Sydney and I had somewhere to stay in Cronulla. And then I got a job at McDonald's just to do something. And then I went to some modeling agencies and started getting some work and then I started working in the hospitality industry. And that was another huge turning point, because at the age of 17, and I know that I was underage, but ‘hoo, ha, it was the 80s.’ I was working in a nightclub in Sydney, it no longer exists now. But at the time, in the 80s, it was where all the big celebrities used to come. And because of my personality type, I was put in charge of looking after them. And what I mean by that is because I grew up in a little country town and probably only saw three movies before I left, I hadn't had this kind of like big worldview. I was like 'oh you're a person, if you're going to be nice to me, I'll be nice to you and if you're not I won't.’ So I wasn't fazed by the celebrity, there were no mobile phones or social media or anything back then. It was just I just enjoyed their company and they enjoyed mine. And so I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with very successful people. 

Duatovic started to hone her business skills on some of the world’s most fascinating people in the most exotic places. But in her mind, it was just work, and in a way they were just customers. 

[20:18] I was also very good at sales, I was able to get people to spend a lot of money, I used to make a lot of money and tips. And then when I was 19, I went to the US and I spent a good six months in New York, around this circle of people as well. So I was just keen on the level of confidence that I created by being in the company. Look, I don't think I was consciously aware of it at the time Tyrone, but sort of looking back as I get  asked these questions, it's like, ‘Yeah, I think that was that sort of making connections.’ And, as a result of it there was nothing really that I didn't think that I could do. I wanted to leave home, so I left. I wanted to go to the US, so I did. I wanted to work in nightclubs, so I did. I wanted to model, so I did. And we just kind of like made the decision. And then I'd figure out how to do it. So I have this same friend of mine— Chris said it and he's given me permission to write a book using the title and I've bought the URL. ‘Just say yes, and figure it out later. That's kind of my motto. So I decide what it is that I want to do and then I'll work out how to make that happen, as opposed to realising that I don't have the resources to do it. 

 

Coming up after the break, we hear more about Ludwina Dautovic’s adventures rubbing shoulders with the stars. 

 

[24:16] You'd remember George Michael? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, he was a mate. Yeah, spent a bit of time with George. Mel Gibson used to hang out at the cauldron quite a lot.

Plus, an insiders view into starting your own business from your bedroom

[5:04] So I started to learn a lot about tech, because Tech was just coming in. And I also wanted to do something that would help to keep my business brand alive that didn't require me to look good, feel good or go anywhere. So I started podcasting in 2010, I did my first audio podcast.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

 

Every job has it’s perks, but some jobs are on another level. Dautovic’s nightclub career seemed to have it all. 

[22:29] I worked in again, the coolest bar in New York at the time in Manhattan. 95% of the patrons were celebrities.

[24:16] You'd remember George Michael? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, he was a mate. Yeah, spent a bit of time with George. Mel Gibson used to hang out at the cauldron quite a lot. Crazy Crazy man. That one.

[24:49] Look, he had a bungalow in Clovelly, which, at the time, we lived in Clovelly. So my housemate and I, he would come to the Cauldren when he came to Australia. I always knew everyone that came to the place, but meeting celebrities at the time in their life where they hit their peak is really quite interesting. And that happened. At the time I met Mel and his wife, he was coming with his wife as well. George Michael was just on the cusp of coming out. So he was just sort of moving away from wham at the time. I met Andrew originally once as well. But you know, Julian Lennon. The first celebrities I met were Daryl Hall and John Oates. I had no idea who they were and I'll never forget it because my boss said to me, ‘you’ve got country written all over your face.’ And I was like, ‘Okay, I don't know who Hall and Oates are. ‘So I've got three records, Charles. But yeah, when I met Julian Lennon that was actually quite significant. And that's where I met my friend Carmine. Carmine was also the musical director for David Bowie and all of Rod Stewart's tours. And then Carlos Alomar, who wrote all of almost David Bowie's lead guitar riffs. I've met him when he was touring with Bowie. So  it was kind of that era.

[26:28] Look, I just enjoyed their company and they enjoyed mine. And I learned a lot from it, and I have lots of great stories. And my kids go Yeah, and I know that they tell their mates and my brothers, because I was able to get my brother's a lot of backstage passes and go to concerts and stuff like that. So, when we're all sitting around the fire in a country town, around the big bonfire, having drinks with all their mates and go, ‘Yeah, my sister got me into this concert.’ And you know, it's kind of all that. So it's fun.

At this point you might be wondering just how Dautovic got into the business world, let alone the world of property. It’s a transition that was unexpected for everyone, but at the same time made perfect sense. 

[0:37] I guess, in a nutshell, is apart from working in hospitality in my early years, I've actually been working for myself for 28 years. So I've never had a day job. I think I would be classified as unemployable. And I just love the idea of creating a concept, seeing if there's a market for it, testing it, developing it, and then selling it. So I really like that creative process. I think it fosters the creativity part of myself, but I also love the tech side of it, because I'm quite analytical as well. So it sort of feeds both sides of who I am.

[1:37] When I first started, there was no internet, no mobile, no digital. So it was all back in the analog days. And after I had both of my children, I was 27 when I had my second one. So my late 20s, I decided I wanted to make a TV show, just out of the blue, like why not. And I had no experience in production. I left school at 15, left home at 16. I just had a lot of hutzpah and gumption and just decided it's what I wanted to do. But what I did have was the ability to ignite my vision in a way that other people would come along for the journey. And then I would find the people that had the skills that I needed to be able to fulfill that vision. And so that was really the first key moment that I realized I had that ability. And then from then on, you know, TV production and video production was a big part of my early career, I had quite a lot of successes with that, particularly in a program where I was sponsored by Apple and Optus to run the program in schools that ended up running in over 300 schools in Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne over a period of about five years. So that was pretty phenomenal. That was called Media Minds, again that was back before digital came in. 

[2:54] And teachers had to teach media in grade five and six, but they weren't actually learning how to teach media at university. So I came in and I essentially created a program that covered up all of the curriculum standard framework for media. And it was a wonderful experience for the kids. So that was an interesting, next part of that journey. And then of course, digital came in. And then at that point, I was in my early 30s, mid 30s maybe. And I was going through quite a lot of personal changes and growth in my life. And that was at the time when life coaching became a thing in Australia when it first became released. And from there, I thought yeah, this is something that I'm going to do next. And so I went into that ended up then utilizing that skill and my previous business and marketing abilities to then worked with women in business. So women and business back then was just a newly starting phenomenon, I guess. 

While everyone has challenges to overcome to reach their goals, usually the hardest obstacles are outside of the mirror. Dautovic was faced with a different kind of fight. 

[3:56] You kind of have to remember that when I first became a mother, the conversations were, should you be working outside of the home. And so as women started to develop businesses for themselves from home, particularly, there was a lot of my skills that I had learned with juggling children as well as my businesses, I was able to support them. So then I started a national women's events company, as you do, to get clients in and that was an amazing experience. We had networking events running around the country. And then cancer became part of my journey at about five years into that, which I'm now 12 years cancer free. So I'll just say that but I don't mean to be flippant about it, but that's another conversation in and of itself, but I was only 44 at the time and when that occurred, I spent three, four years having surgeries. It was kidney cancer, I lost my kidney but then had to have a few repair surgeries as well. 

[4:59] In that time I had a lot of rest time. And in that rest time, I love learning. So I started to learn a lot about tech, because Tech was just coming in. And I also wanted to do something that would help to keep my business brand alive that didn't require me to look good, feel good or go anywhere. So I started podcasting in 2010, I did my first audio podcast. And that was back in the days when I had to teach people how to download a podcast on iTunes, hit number one half dozen times, I think I've got screengrabs of it for evidence and new and noteworthy. And then people started asking me, well, you know, how do you do it? Can you teach me? And then I started to realize, you know, if I hear something three or more times, it's possibly something in it. So I created a podcast masterclass, then I had to have another surgery, and then I wrote a book on digital marketing. And the following year, I had to have another surgery. So launched that book in digital and print worldwide. And then after that, I started to pick up and then started working alongside some pretty significant people in the tech space. My reputation through interviewing leaders in the tech industry, through the podcast, opened up a big platform for me and doors, as I imagined it says for you as well, definitely. And the knowledge that I gained, and plus the connections and the relationships, then started to really develop my mind in ways that I had never really thought of before, and led me more into then started to invest in tech, and then work within tech companies as an advisor.

Ludwina Dautovic’s story continues in the next episode of Property Investory. We’ll hear more about the habits that have lead to her success.

[4:44] It was really interesting to know that my number one strength is achievement. So what's this like? How can that be a strength and I was like, wow, that's why I feel so good.

What the future of Australia’s market should look like, if she has her way. 

 Ludwina Dautovic

[16:56] Whatever your personality and your partner's personality type is like, you want to feel like you can come home and still be that right? Because you don't feel like you have to change in the company of the other person is there, and vice versa.

And that’s next time on Property Investory.