Property Investory
Josh Rockingham - How This Electrician Sparked a $1.7M Uplift in Under 3 Years
November 21, 2021
Josh Rockingham wears many hats— electrician, husband, and father are just the beginning. Although his foray into property investment is still a fairly recent venture, it’s poised to be just one of his many great successes. 2018 saw Rockingham and his unsuspecting brother take a leap of faith that certainly paid off, to the tune of over $6.8M in equity!
In this episode we hear all about how one piece of advice from a fellow tradie sparked just the fire he needed. He delves into the several career options he considered and how the path he’s on now is the one that brings him the most fulfilment. No matter what he does, or what anybody else says, he dives in with everything he has. It really goes to show, sometimes parents really don’t know best!

Timestamps:
01:09 | An Addiction to Property
05:00 | The Land Down Under
07:37 | Risks vs. Rewards
11:14 | The Electrical Spark Never Faded
14:20 | A Family Affair
18:47 | Achieving His Dual Income Dream
23:18 | Then Linder Came Along
25:23 | I Thought I Was Maxed Out
29:27 | Positively Gearing a Passive Income

 |

01:00 | Living on the Edge
03:10 | You Scratch My Back, I Scratch Yours
07:12 | The Importance of Knowing Your Strengths...
09:29 | ...And Recognising Your Achievements
11:41 | Break Out the Champagne
16:16 | Not Everything Was Obvious
22:13 | Opening Doors All Up and Down the Coast
25:44 | Never Say Never

Resources and Links:
InPhase Electrical Group
Linder Group
Surrey, England
Newcastle, NSW
North Richmond, NSW
Redbank
CBA (Commonwealth Bank Australia)
Penrith, NSW

Transcript:

Josh Rockingham:
[00:15:45] But it wasn't until I went to get my loan for my house that I'm living in now. And actually meeting Kimberly, and also Linder Group as well, which prompted me into realising how much I could actually achieve going forward with what I've already done. So from there, that's where the doors actually started to open, which was probably only about three years ago. 
 
**INTRO MUSIC**
 
Tyrone Shum:
This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.
 
I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Josh Rockingham, an electrician with a spark for property investment. He shares how although his property journey is barely old enough to be in kindergarten, just a few steps have catapulted him to create over 1.7 million dollars of equity and become worth more than he ever could have imagined.
 
**END INTRO MUSIC**
 
**START BACKGROUND MUSIC**

An Addiction to Property

Tyrone Shum:
Rockingham grew up in England until the age of six, when his parents moved the family to Penrith in Western Sydney. Today he’s an electrician by day and a property investor at other times.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:01:09] I started getting into property in probably 2018, when I decided to go halves in a property with my brother. It was a random sort of act, bit of a, 'Yeah, we'll get this one' sort of thing. I had a bit of advice from a tradesman that I worked for, who also invests in property. He sort of gave me an outline, and said, 'This is what you should do if you want to get somewhere. Maybe you should look at doing this, instead of just blowing your money on silly things.' 

[00:01:40] I took his advice there, and decided I will go and do this. [It] actually turned out to be the right choice, because it was a dual key, not just a negatively geared property. It was actually positively geared from the get go, which was a good decision that I had no idea that I made until I've started talking to Kimberly, or like minded people. And friends said, 'Actually, that's such a good idea what you've done.' So that's sort of where it started. And then from there, it's sort of become, I'd say, a hobby, or an addiction. I'd say more an addiction.

Tyrone Shum:   
Most of his time is spent being an electrician, husband, and father, but he still manages to find time for property.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:02:53] I usually have, like, [spurs] of the moments where I'll attack it for a few months and then let it sit for a bit and then come back out of nowhere and do the same. So I wouldn't say I'm continuously day to day thinking about that. But I'm always working towards something. There's always an end goal. But yeah, it's usually a lot of work. Hard work. That's day to day in a nutshell. Really. That is what it is.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:03:20] I can totally understand. I mean, like, I guess in an electrician's job, it's never ending and you guys have got so much work on. 

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:03:30] Yeah, COVID was a bit of a roller coaster. And believe it or not it's actually gotten a lot busier since COVID. Which is surprising. 

[00:03:44] Besides the lockdown that we had, it's actually gotten a lot busier. So I just take it as it comes and work as hard as we can. And that's pretty much what I do. Obviously, can't really have much fun at the moment. But yeah, a lot of work. 

The Land Down Under

Tyrone Shum:   
He grew up in Surrey in South London before making the trip down under at the turn of the millennium. His parents decided to come here in search of opportunity— and sunshine.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:05:00] It's not as good as here, there's a lot more opportunity here. Especially if you're working, especially running your own business or if you've got the drive over here, there's a lot more opportunity to create something of it. Whereas over there there's a lot of barriers.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:05:20] That's what I heard as well, too. That's really interesting. And what's your parents background? What do they do?

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:05:26] My mum was a nurse. And my dad worked in a similar industry to me, like fiber optics, communications side of things. So he still does that. He and my brother do the exact same thing. And I sort of veered off and done electrical as my own pathway to what I wanted to do. So they decided that they wanted to give us a bit opportunity, so thanks to them that they bought us out here because it's actually created a lot of opportunity for us. We take that on and get it done.

Tyrone Shum:   
Although he was very young, there’s certainly one thing about his arrival in Australia he’ll never forget!

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:06:15] I remember it was very hot. That was the first impression. Not so much, it's more so the normal grow up as a child sort of thing. Go to school and play sport, pretty much that was the scenario until you hit around 15 [or] 16 and then you start, still playing sport, go on to school, think about working. What are you going to do when you grow up and all the other stressors that come along with that. 

[00:06:44] I think I started thinking pretty early on what I wanted to do, and electrical was in there. Probably a third of the way down. The first one was a forensic scientist but I never got around to doing that. And then there was an architect. I didn't get around to doing that and then I settled for electrical. But I'm glad I did.

Tyrone Shum:  
[00:07:08] If you could go back [in] time would you actually still pursue that? Forensic science or architecture?

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:07:13] I probably actually would still pursue electrical, now that I've done it, to be honest. Working for somebody maybe isn't as rewarding. Definitely working for yourself if you know how to structure your business is definitely a good way to get an income.

Risks vs. Rewards

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:07:37] Always running a business is always very, very profitable. And also, too, working for yourself and hav[ing] that flexibility as well, too. There's also the risks versus rewards as well because you're going to have to take on all the risks as well.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:07:49] As long as you keep the rewards outweighing the risks, then so far so good. It's worked out well. I enjoy it. I love it. You've got to love what you do every day. If you can't wake up and enjoy it then I guess find something else to do. That's the way I see it. You've got to enjoy it. So I enjoy it. Let's keep going. That's what I like to do, it's good.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:08:13] Good stuff. You mentioned you like sports as well, too. Or you're involved in sports. What did you do at school?

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:08:18] I played soccer for 15 [or] 16 years. So I always loved playing soccer. If it's not soccer then it's cricket or anything when we were growing up. We played anything. Anything that was on the cards on that day, we would play. Definitely soccer was a reoccurring one.

[00:08:52] We played pretty high level. Nowhere near something that would get me a career in it. It was more so just for leisure, I'd say, and passion. Definitely didn't ever think I'd get a career out of it. I wasn't that good.

Tyrone Shum:   
He attended a high school that used a trade school system, allowing him to kill two birds with one stone.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:09:37] So instead of going to year 12 like normal and getting your HSC and then deciding, 'Okay, I want to do a trade' or 'I want to continue to university', or TAFE maybe, I actually got the luxury to do my first year of electrical and my HSC in year 11 and 12 at the same time. 

[00:09:59] It was a decision that I thought I wanted to do a trade, I picked electrical. Started doing that, that's how I got the taste of it. And it was just convenient that I'd get time off school as well. That's gonna do it! And still get a HSC so it worked. Maybe I was doing it to bludge more, I don't know, but it worked out. I liked it in the end so it was a good thing. It's for people that aren't hell bent on going to university and wanting to definitely go to university and that's it. It's a good other avenue to go down for people that are sort of on the fence.

The Electrical Spark Never Faded

Tyrone Shum:   
He remembers what his dad told him when he decided to follow his footsteps as an electrician.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:11:14] 'I've done it, I've worked hard, my body's torn apart from being a tradesman, go and do something else.' I was like, 'I don't really want to.' I enjoy being hands on. Obviously having your own business, there's a lot of paperwork as well still that I've got to do, but that's just my time to relax now, really. It's my free time where I get to actually sit down and have a break. But no, I enjoy being hands on, I don't think I could not be.

[00:11:56] After year 11 and 12— which was also the first year of the apprenticeship and doing the HSC as well— Funnily enough I actually went and done a metal fabrication for a year as a change of scenery. Just something else to do, because... I don't know, I had a change of heart or I was... I can't remember what I was thinking back then, it was quite a while ago. But I done that for you and realised, no, I really wanted electrical. Went back to electrical after that year. Finished my apprenticeship and then as soon as I got my license to be a tradesman I started my own business straight away. I would have been 20 [or] 21.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:12:39] You really jumped into the deep end without even consideration, didn't you!

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:12:45] And then from there it's just been like a blink of an eye, and now I'm here. That's what it feels like. It goes quickly.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:12:53] I understand. Yeah, you would have picked up a lot of things very, very, quickly. Because running your own business is not an easy thing to do. There's so much that's involved. But I guess once you start getting jobs, it just gets busier and busier.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:13:05] Instead of learning how to run the business and then starting it, I started the business and then learnt to run it while doing it. Does that make sense?

[00:13:31] If you have a bit of confidence about yourself, then really, you can learn anything and pick up anything. If you pick up things quickly, you'll pick it up. I guess the biggest thing is fear. Don't be fearful and just go for it.

[00:13:47] That's pretty much what I've been doing ever since.

A Family Affair

Tyrone Shum:   
Rockingham dives into his property journey tale, which came along unexpectedly for him— and for his brother!

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:14:20] The company that I worked for— that I served my apprenticeship at— ended up finishing my time with him as well. He was my boss. He invested in property. Not exactly the way that I do now, but he always had a passion to invest and always told me, 'Look, don't waste your money. You should put it towards this if you want to set yourself up for the future. Then buy property.'

[00:14:53] And he always used to drum it into me. And I said, ‘Okay, I'll look at doing it.’ Which is where I purchased my first property. And at the time, I didn't have the lending capacity just to do it by myself. So I dragged my brother into and I said, 'Look, you're going to buy half.' And he was only 17 at the time. He said, 'No, why would I do that?' I go, 'Just trust me, we'll just do it.' 

[00:15:16] So I ended up conning him into do it. And we went halves in a property. And from there, I sat on that one for a bit and kept working on my business and working away. It didn't really click together, even then it didn't really click, 'Investing is what I want to do,' I just knew that it's something I should do. There's what I thought, as opposed to now where it's more so a lifestyle choice as well. 

[00:15:45] But it wasn't until I went to get my loan for my house that I'm living in now. And actually meeting Kimberly, and also Linder Group as well, which prompted me into realising how much I could actually achieve going forward with what I've already done. So from there, that's where the doors actually started to open, which was probably only about three years ago. 

Tyrone Shum:  
He didn’t think much of his first property at the time, but now realises the impact it had on him.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:17:17] I actually went into that with my brother as I said, but my parents actually guaranteed it. So they've never had really any interest in investing in property. They spent all their money that they had coming to Australia and they purchased their house that they live in now. And they're still living in it. 

[00:17:08] And I hit them up with the great idea of, 'Hey, can you guarantor a property for me?' They first looked at me [and] said, 'No, why would we do that? What are you going to do about paying me back?' I said, 'Just trust me and just let me do it.' Luckily that they did. So they guarantored us. So I actually never ended up paying any money towards that house at all.

[00:18:08] Our borrowing capacity and liability was split up between my brother and I. But we actually use my parents' guarantor to actually pay for the deposit and the stamp duty and the renovation that we done when we bought it. It worked out for us and they're obviously no longer on that property anymore as a guarantor. So it worked out fine for them as well, but that's how it started. And then from there, the equity from that helped me with my next one, then they've went from there.

Achieving His Dual Income Dream

Tyrone Shum:   
His first property wasn’t much to look at at the time, but it had its advantages.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:18:47] It was a house and granny flat which needed a bit of work done to it. But I always got told to always buy something with a dual income on the one property, to try and get maximum return. So there wasn't many available around my area, Penrith and Emu Plains sort of area of Western Sydney, where we are. And we found that one and got that for $670,000 in 2017. That probably put $20,000 into it, not even, because obviously I'm in the trade and all my mates are tradies and that's I guess the benefit of being a tradie! You get stuff, you get help and you help them and everyone helps each other. So we renovated it and yeah, it's a good dual key. It's still a dual key, obviously, a granny flat and a house. There's good returns, $780 a week we get for that one and still get $780 a week for that.

Tyrone Shum:   
Its uplift is $230,000, with its most recent valuation coming in at a plentiful $900,000. 

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:20:24] How it came around was probably just right place right time, in terms of speaking to agents, I'd say. It did look a bit rundown from the outside, I guess maybe a lot of people didn't want to touch it. Or didn't want to put the work in to fix it up. Whereas I looked at it as an opportunity. Because I can do that stuff and get people to help me. I just looked at it as a little challenge and said, 'Oh, this is perfect, really.' 

[00:20:53] And it was dual key, it was all Council approved. And maybe it scared people off, the original look of it, and how much work potentially could have been involved in it if you didn't have any hands on skills. So that was probably the main factor I'd say.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:21:12] It's interesting. So I'm assuming you went into that particular property with your brother as an investment. Did you ever consider buying your own home as well? Especially if that's your first property.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:21:22] It was funny, because we were still living at home with my parents then. So we thought, 'Why would we move out?' So that's why I sat on that one for a while. Me and my brother, we just said, 'We'll get one. And we'll try and set ourselves up by getting a few investments, and we'll just bludge off Mum and Dad while we're there.'

[00:21:53] So that's sort of what happened. It wasn't it wasn't until I ended up getting in a serious relationship. And I'm like, 'Oh, well, I can't really stay at home any longer, having a serious relationship.' And then that's when we bought our principal home. And then I started actually looking at it as a bigger opportunity in terms of investing and it started to become more of a exciting hobby to me, and more of a something I'd like to study and learn about more. And that's when it really started to kick off.

[00:22:43] I was dealing just with banks originally, CBA, actually, to be exact. And I got my principal home. Luckily, I got it because I had only just recently started a business maybe 18 months beforehand, so it was a lot of back and forth trying to get a loan. My parents actually guarantored that one as well. That was the only way to get it over the line because I was classed as a liability, being a business owner. High risk. 

Then Linder Came Along

[00:23:18] And then I met Kimberly, after doing some electrical work here. And then from there, I realised you know why I'd used a broker, because I was getting dramas to get any more money after that. An occupied house, it was a struggle for them to even look at me. I was too high risk because I owned a business and they reckoned I was maxed out and everything like that. So if it was up to them, I'd still only have the original first one I bought and I wouldn't have any more. But Kimberly looked at it differently and found ways to get me over the line with various different loans. Very glad that I found her, bro. 

Tyrone Shum:   
He met Kimberly while he was doing electrical work for her, but he’s no stranger to the rest of her family either.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:24:54] I'm actually friends with Kimberly's daughter. So we know each other. That's how they got on to ask me to do the work and I came and done my electrical work. And then from there I spoke to Jason and that's when I started to get more intrigued as to where I could actually go and what I could achieve with property.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:25:20] What did Jason say to you that made it interesting?

I Thought I Was Maxed Out

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:25:23] He just spoke about their investments that they have done, and what's coming out around the area, and new estates, and growth areas and how amazing places are and opportunities around North Richmond and Newcastle, all areas like that. And uplifts and looking at how much you could get in and what you get out. And I was like, 'That's crazy, really.'

[00:25:55] And then I was like, 'Okay, I want to start getting back in'. Because I had maybe a year and a half of just working and worrying about my loan for my own house and all that sort of stuff. I didn't really think that I could get any more money, I thought I was maxed out because the banks didn't want to look at me.

[00:26:10] So then I said, 'Maybe I can actually continue going further with investing.' So I had the Emu Plains one with which is obviously halves with my brother, we sat on that. That just stays there, that's positively geared, it doesn't cost me anything, we just leave it there. I forgot about that one for a while. Just let it work.

[00:26:11] Then the house that I live in, my priority with working was to pay that off as fast as possible. So from there, when we met, I had a look at opportunities on where I could go. And then that's when I got put on to Kimberly and they had a look at different opportunities. So Kimberly does all the finance for me and found me loans but Jason from Linder Group actually finds opportunities to get you in the door, or investment opportunities as well. 

[00:27:08] So without that guidance I probably wouldn't have known exactly what areas were a safe bet to go to. I would have probably stayed local to where I live instead of thinking of going to Newcastle or to Queensland or Hunter region or anything like that. So being intrigued started there. And then from that is where we started to talk more on it and then that's where the first property in this cycle of new ambition started, which was one actually in North Richmond. So that was the first one.

Tyrone Shum:   
This particular property was part of a new estate, in its very early stages.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:28:06] I actually decided to go all in and I actually put down for two blocks of land in there. Which I wish I kept one of them, but I didn't. And yeah I got into that one. So I think for the house and land it was $860,000, roughly, from memory.

[00:28:32] What I actually done was drawn the equity from my owner occupied house. Which paid for the deposit for that. Because I'd paid down quite a lot on my own house. My priority is just to pay down my principal home as much as I can. And that's always been the goal due to obviously the fact that you can't get any kickbacks or tax benefits from paying the mortgage on your own house, whereas you can for investments, so it's best to eliminate the loan on your principal home and keep the loans on your investments. So by paying that down actually, without me knowing that this first created a lot of power in equity and purchasing power through that. So that's what got me to get to Redbank.

Tyrone Shum:
Rockingham’s broker, Kimberly Linder, joins us to elaborate on his purchase at Redbank, near Newcastle.

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:29:27] Really Redbank is a brand new estate, a very, very young estate. You were in at $860,000. We actually have a property very similar on the market at the moment, which our customer just turned down an offer of $1.1M and they're holding out for that $1.17M. So Josh has gained close to $300,000 equity in that property which was purchased in 2019. That's again another house and granny flat, a beautiful Hamptons style house. What rent are you getting on that, Josh? Yeah, $1080 per week. 

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:30:14] That's amazing. So it is pretty much positive cash flow then.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:30:17] It is definitely positive cash flow, and some.

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:30:20] Josh is very good with paying p&i repayments. I hope you don't mind me saying that, Josh. So it'd be really good to end, when we do, just in a strategy of where he wants to be in the final stages. But him pay principal and interest— this is how great this investment was— positively geared, paying principal and interest, a depreciation of about $18,000 a year, plus it's also creating a passive income. So somebody is actually paying that property off for him, as well as providing a passive income.

Tyrone Shum:  
[00:30:57] Plus, you also got equity uplift as well, too, which you can use to pull out and reinvest into other properties.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:31:02] Exactly. Which is what we've done, I think, to get the next one.

[00:00:00] In which is a similar setup, dual key as well, just a different area again which was up in Newcastle. But yeah, Redbank has been probably the standout of all of the ones even still that I've got today. Hence why I said I wish I kept the other block that I got. So if there's any regret in any investment is...

[00:00:27] Not to buy more. That was probably the only mistake that I've made. Hasn't really been a dodgy investment yet.

Living on the Edge

Tyrone Shum:   
His impulsivity can get the best of him, but Linder is always there to save the day.

Josh Rockingham:  
[00:01:00] The stress of getting things over the line, because I'm very impulsive. In terms of if I see something that's a good opportunity we go for it, and then we worry about getting the loan after that.

[00:01:21] The impulsiveness, and the stress of getting that sorted. In terms of actually investing itself, it's actually very enjoyable. There's not really any downside to it, just the stress of just gathering the funds. Which we end up getting, it's just a matter of leaving it to the last minute sometimes, or the day of.

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:01:46] 'I need an approval in three days, Kimberly, you good for that?'

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:01:53] We like to live on the edge. Why do it six weeks before when you can do it six hours before? We always get it over the line, and that's the main part, really.

Tyrone Shum:   
While getting finance approval isn’t an easy process, he has an additional hurdle to overcome. 

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:02:27] It's probably the fact that I do run my own business. You've obviously got to provide a lot more information, not just of yourself but of what your business is doing as well. So there's a lot of different people that you've got to wait to get information from. I.e. accountants, ATO, yourself. And they're trying to consolidate all that very quickly because as I said, for some reason every time I see something it usually tends to be around the end of financial year so then I've got to wait for my accountant to organise himself and you know what they're like, it can take a long time.

You Scratch My Back, I Scratch Yours

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:03:10] Josh gives them free electrical work so that they can get his tax return faster. That's what you did last year, remember?!

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:03:21] I love it! It's a win-win.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:03:36] But I didn't do any work for him. So this year, I don't have mine yet. But last year it worked out. But it's not too much. A lot of the stress actually gets lifted off my shoulders. To be honest, it's usually Kimberly that deals with the stress. There is a few things obviously to do but having someone that you can rely on and trust as a broker definitely, definitely helps a lot.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:04:08] For sure. Well, Kimberly, I'd like to probably hear from your perspective. So Josh comes in and says, 'Kim, can you please get me a loan for this property? I need to sell in the next two or three days.' What happens then? I'm assuming your stress levels just jump really high. But how do you actually go about something like that as a challenge? 

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:04:30] I don't mind a bit of pressure. I think I work best under pressure. So a lot of the times, a lot of the properties where he's had some of these issues, these are properties that Linder Group have produced for Josh as well. 

[00:04:43] So in a booming market, some of the opportunities people want to exchange under 66 W and under terms that are not really happening in a normal property market. So it's sometimes the, 'Right, assess it, give him the confirmation that it is going to work, the confidence that we are going to be able to get it out over the line and then work to make that happen.'

[00:05:18] So in some of the things that Josh has spoken about we might have needed updated financials to show consistency. Particularly in times like COVID, banks are asking a lot more. So he will have to get everything together, get it to me. And this is just cross over a financial year, but some of the challenges Josh has faced because I know that he spoke about his first loans with CBA. We continued down that path where the next couple of loans went to CBA as well. So whereas they couldn't get him any more money, I did a little bit of a restructure, presented things a little bit different from a financial situation which meant we could get them over the line. 

[00:06:03] But then we had difficulties with CBA because their policies changed so much through COVID. So we had to make a quick swap to work with other banks' policies to then get the next loan over the line. So really it's just me having to know my job and Josh trusting that everything works from a capacity point of view. Yeah, we may be down to the 11th hour but we know that we're going to be able to get it over the line. So a lot of trust. We always do.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:06:38] It's funny, it is a lot of trust and you end up building a friendship with your broker. It's more than just, 'You get my loan and see you later,' it's a journey. It always ends up being every loan, every house is a journey.

The Importance of Knowing your Strengths...

[00:07:12] I can say I would have had the right idea without anyone else, but in saying that a lot of the stuff that I've done would definitely not have been possible without Kimberly and also Linder Group finding properties. But also I don't have the time to research, you know? You need to let people do what they're good at doing what you do what you're good at doing. And I'm good at doing electrical and I don't have time to sit there and research areas and properties and growth and what new university is going in or school or tram lines, road lines, train lines. There's a lot to it. Which I do actually learn a bit of now, but not at all at the start. 

[00:07:57] So it's definitely a guidance and learning curve for me. As I say to a lot of my friends who ask me about it, it's like learning another trade. You can touch on electrical for a little bit but you need to do your whole trade to actually grasp it. And more. You always learn, even when you finish your trade you continue to learn. Same with property. You can know about property, but then there's learning how to make money from property which is another trade again. And you continue to learn even past, you know, I'll be 40 and 50 and still learning property.

Tyrone Shum:  
Rockingham’s aha moment came along very recently, once he had time to sit and assess his achievements.

...And Recognising Your Achievements 

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:09:29] You get caught up with it a lot. You get one, then you work, then you get another one and you're just compiling it all together. You never really sit down and appreciate actually how successful it's been until someone points it out to you. I.e. being Kimberly said, 'Oh, hey, you realise you've actually had an uplift of around $1.7 million.' I nearly fell off my chair to be honest, because I didn't actually realise. I just thought, 'Yeah, okay, let's keep going.' And before you know it, I was like, 'Jeez, that's a fair bit.' And then I realised the potential even more so. 

[00:10:09] So that was probably the biggest aha moment in going, 'I've achieved this in four years.' Whereas you probably never be able to get that working and earning money. Even in electrical, there's no way that you'd gain that. That's probably the biggest moment for me.

Break Out the Champagne

Tyrone Shum:   
With Rockingham’s $1.7 million in uplift, Linder crunches the numbers to work out his bank valuation. In the meantime, he ponders the COVID era market.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:11:41] Knowing when to buy, as well. When, where, and then what part of the cycle to buy. Obviously, as you'd know, right now, the market is crazy. It's continuing to go up. 

Kimberly Linder:    
[00:12:04] Wow! $6,865,000. Bank valuation.

Tyrone Shum:
[00:12:19] That is amazing. Congrats!

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:12:44] Having the advice, as well as knowing yourself, when and where to buy. Personally, I wouldn't buy right now, at the moment, because it's a bit inflated. That's my personal opinion, especially around the Western Sydney, Sydney area. It's just going bananas.

[00:13:15] I'd let it sort of correct itself, which I think it will do eventually, once interest rates go up. Because a lot of people will probably find themselves not being able to afford their mortgage that they've somehow managed to get with the low interest rate at the moment. It does cycle. 

[00:13:36] Not just knowing where to buy, also knowing how things work, how banks work, how the Royal Commission works, how all these things work. If you don't do your background checks on those sort of things, and getting an understanding of the way the world works, really, you can't really predict how things are gonna happen. Not saying that I have any idea of what's happening in the future, I don't know how to predict the future. But you sort of get a good idea of how things are going up. When things are going to plateau, where they're going to calm down a little bit, then you jump in then. 

[00:14:18] It wouldn't be so much luck. As I was saying to Kimberly earlier, you sort of create your own luck, I'd say. There's no such thing as getting lucky. You got to be in the right place at the right time to get luck, so it's really saying that you've created yourself. I think that knowing the way everything works, markets work, how interest rates work, how banks work, how money works, how you can make money or where you can't make money. I think just having a general idea in those things is a great help. 

[00:14:48] So running a business actually benefits me in terms of knowing about money, obviously, because I need to know about money to run the business as well. But just being open to being a sponge. I guess I'm a sponge. That's what I'd call myself. A sponge. You can never know too much. And never think you know everything, because you definitely don't. You're always learning off everyone else is what I do. But it wouldn't make a difference today if I had $100 million in property, I'd still listen to people. Still learn, still take advice, and still do exactly probably what I'm doing now. And that's probably exactly what I'll continue doing.

Not Everything Was Obvious

Tyrone Shum:  
He does much of his research on his own, but it definitely hasn’t always been that way.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:16:16] But to get to that, to start with, the main mentor was definitely Kimberly. Because the first two was sort of, you know, you need a house to live in. I didn't really need any advice to know that I need to live in a house to live in. And the first one was more of a touch of advice from who I worked for, and just going with the flow. 

[00:16:37] But from there on, the only main mentor would be Kimberly and Jason. I can't really put it to anyone else. Because they're pretty much the only people I take my advice from. And obviously my own knowledge now that I've learnt on the way. Yeah, don't really read any books, as I said, so that's who I put it to, to be honest, there's no other way around it.

Tyrone Shum:   
Although ten years ago he was only 17, there’s still things he would change if he could— but not everything!

Josh Rockingham:  
[00:17:29] I started at 21, I would say start at 18. Why not? Instead of going on those two years of partying where you probably blew X amount of dollars, you could have invested in something else. But at the same time you need to party as well. Can't just sit at home, save every penny and invest and never have any fun because at the end of the day, what's the point? You need to have a bit of both. So I'd probably just say, 'Do what you're doing, maybe start a touch earlier.' A couple years could have helped a bit more.

Tyrone Shum:  
[00:19:21] Looking forward, say maybe in the next five years, what are you most excited [about] in your property journey?

Josh Rockingham: 
[00:19:28] Personally, it'd be growing the portfolio is what's exciting to me. New opportunities. For me, I want to get my principal home down to zero. That's my goal. I don't want to have a mortgage that I have to pay for my principal home. That way I can concentrate on paying off my investments. But yeah, definitely expanding the portfolio. 

[00:20:01] I did say to Kimberly, when I first met Kimberly, I said I want to have 30 houses by the time I'm 30. But that only leaves me with three years to get 19. Which... I never say never, but yeah. Maybe 20 by 30 is more realistic. Sometimes I set unrealistic goals and just go with it. But we'll see.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:20:25] Oh, yeah, I mean, anything's achievable, especially what you've achieved in such a short period of time. So if you set that goal, let's go for it. 

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:20:37] It's better to give it a crack, I'd say. But yeah, definitely growing the portfolio is my main priority. To set myself up for when I'm older, set my kids up and be able to have a comfortable retirement is the goal.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:20:54] You're definitely well on your path for that. Your kids are gonna be very, very happy to hear as well. And they'll learn a lot from this as well. So in 10 [or] 20 years time when they hear this podcast, hopefully they'll look back and go, 'Dad, thanks very much.'

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:21:07] Yeah, I hope so. You never know, they might. I'll definitely be training them into property, and electrical, as soon as they can handle it.

Opening Doors All Up and Down the Coast

Tyrone Shum:   
Out of the 11 properties he’s purchased, one in the Newcastle suburb of Thornton stands out as being the most interesting.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:22:13] Interesting in the fact that when we built them, I actually got to do electrical for my own properties as well. We organise with the builder, because I like to do that. 

[00:22:27] So just the area and the growth in that area, and what actually the area's got to offer and realising that Sydney is not the be all and end all to where you've got to live. That's probably the exciting part, realising that. I live in Sydney, obviously, but yeah, around Sydney is growing, majorly. Two [or] three [or] four hours away from Sydney, up the coast or down the coast, it's just expanding. It's actually becoming nicer than Sydney to live in. There's much less traffic and bigger roads, and everything's just growing big. Hospitals, universities, or you name it, that was something that I really got interested in and that was a big sign for me, just realising that, how good different areas are becoming.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:23:20] Why do you think that's the case?

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:23:24] Probably price, I'd say. The cost of living in Sydney. COVID was probably one big thing as well. Obviously, the risk of living in Sydney during COVID time was obviously worse than if you were to live somewhere else. A lot of people working from home now realising they don't need to drive into the city to actually go to work and work in the office, they can actually have a beach house five hours up the coast, looking to get a nice view and actually getting the same amount of work done if not more while they're sitting there. 

[00:24:02] I've even noticed myself, friends or work colleagues and whatnot have actually moved out rural or up the coast, down the coast, getting out and it's cheaper. A lot of different things, a lot of doors have opened up since COVID. Whether it be... probably a lot of more bad that outweighs the good in regards to COVID. But if you take something out of it, it's the fact that you don't really need to rely on staying around a central hub, i.e. Sydney, to navigate your way through your career.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:25:23] You've talked a little bit about luck. And you mentioned earlier as well, too, Kimberly, that it's not all luck for you. But you have sort of touched on it. But I will ask you this question about your success: how much of your whole success has been due to skill, intelligence and hard work, and how much of it is because of luck?

Never Say Never

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:25:44] I'd say 95% of it was skill. Actually, I wouldn't say so much skill, moreso hard work, hard work, and drive. And I've got like, I'm a workaholic, and major OCD probably contributes to it as well. But I believe working hard, you create your own luck. You create your own opportunities. It's not like it just gets given to you. And luck falls out of the sky, I don't believe in that, to be honest with you. It's more so creating your own luck through the steps that you decide to take in your own life. That's what I believe in. 

[00:26:24] Which I think is... so I'd say more of it is down to hard work. And then learning skills on the way, I wouldn't say that was the start of it. Because I didn't so much as have those skills when I first ever started. But I always had drive. Always had a passion to work hard, and never had any fear in creating opportunities or going for something. That was probably the main thing for me.

Kimberly Linder:   
[00:27:14] To touch on that with Josh, in every aspect of his journey, he has had to be resourceful. So I would say that's probably your number one greatest quality because he had to find the answers in every single step. With every single property. Nothing with his journey has been easy, not nothing. Except funnily enough, this last loan we've just done, that's been the easiest one. 

[00:27:42] So he's been resourceful from having to find out how he can get in without a deposit, great parents that have helped him, and then he's had issues with lending because of his being self employed, where he's been resourceful, being able to get that over the line. Then he's hit the wall again, he's had to find somebody else that can help where obviously that's where we come in. 

[00:28:09] But then he's hit the ceiling with lending on several occasions where then he's had to not only be resourceful but he's had to know that he needs to be flexible in terms of what we can and what we can't do in order to get the next property over the line. So resourcefulness and being willing to learn as well as work with the strategies that are available to you. Which you've always been so open to all of that, haven't you?

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:28:40] Yeah, never say never attitude. Always find a way. Resourcefulness is probably a good word to describe it. Because it has been hiccups all the time with lending. Especially when you own your own business. For some reason. They make it much harder for you. 

Tyrone Shum:   
His business mindset has helped him in his property journey, as he’s used to being proactive and taking initiative.

Josh Rockingham:   
[00:29:32] It definitely is like a mindset. The big thing to do of all that is mindset, really. I guess it all comes from within. Drive, willing to succeed and not settling for mediocre or however you want to see it. Different people are wired differently. But at the end of the day, if you want to succeed and do something, the opportunity is definitely there to do it. You've just got to go out and get it. It might not be easy, it might take people longer, it might take someone six months as opposed to someone three years, who knows. But the possibility is you can definitely do it if you want to put in the work to do it. Is the way I see it.

**OUTRO**

Tyrone Shum: 
Thank you to Josh Rockingham, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.