Business Launch Podcast
Transforming Businesses through Consulting with Patrick Tsang
January 9, 2023
Patrick Tsang is a specialist in quality engineering practices whose been pivotal in transforming start ups and leading large scale programs of work. He specialises in identifying bottlenecks and proposing robust solutions to drive efficiency. A well rounded individual who builds relationships with ease and lasting impressions. Pat's Top 3 Business Advice for Entrepreneurs and Business Owners: 1. Go to conference and meet ups and build a strong network. 2. Find a someone who has specific skillsets that specialise in what you are looking for. 3. Have a good support network that you can turn to. Pat's book recommendation: 1. First book is the goal eliyahu goldratt Book is about the lean Methology, Six Sigma and helps with any kind of Transformation in business. 2. The Phoenix Project by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, George Spafford. If you want to get in Contact with Patrick, you can contact him in linked in and let him know that Carlo sent you from the Business Launch Podcast. Linkedin Handle is
Happy new year, everyone. I hope you've had the chance to slow down and spend some time with your loved ones. I'm excited for what 2023 has in store for us. Looking forward to accelerating this journey and unlocking more collaborations. We have successful business leaders. Through sponsorships and deals. 

My goal for this podcast. Is to provide a platform. To showcase, inspire and motivate. We have an awesome episode. Kick yourself into gear 

so let's do this. 

Que The  intro.  

[00:00:00] Carlo Selorio: Hey guys, happy New Year. I am here. I'm Carlo, as you know from Business Launch Podcast. I am here with a good friend of mine who's actually I met through my wife, um, Patrick Zang. Patty, how you 

[00:00:13] Patrick Tsang: doing? Great. It's good to see you, man. . It's good to 

[00:00:17] Carlo Selorio: catch up. Um, we haven't caught up in probably over a year now.

[00:00:21] So Pat works for a company called VMware. He works in the dev ops, so he's, um, and he, what's good about Pat is that he's helped a lot of startups and, um, he's been in this, in this space for a long time. It is just great to see his progression as well, because I know that he went to uni with my wife and they've all, um, started doing different, different types of work, which is like really interesting.

[00:00:49] So how you doing Pat? 

[00:00:51] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, man. Great. Look, it was, uh, a great experience working with, uh, sorry, not working, but going to school with, with your wife and, and that group. And it's kind of interesting to see how we've all kind of [00:01:00] diversified and, and gone in our careers over like 20 years now. Can you believe it?

[00:01:04] I 

[00:01:04] Carlo Selorio: know, but they always, they always say, Patty's the party, the party animal. But , , 

[00:01:11] Patrick Tsang: oh man, I'm, I'm a domesticated party animal now. , I don't think the party tunnel applies anymore. I 

[00:01:15] Carlo Selorio: think, I think once, once you start, you got married, I think all that changed. So, um, Pat's now a family man with two kids. So, um, he's, um, seeing him, he's still got his laugh and he's got, still got his, a lot of things.

[00:01:28] His personality is still there, so it's um, great to know. So Pat, um, where did you grow up in? 

[00:01:34] Patrick Tsang: Um, yeah, so look, bit of, bit of history about me. So, you know, I'm. I migrated over from Hong Kong when I was two years old. Not that I did it, but my parents . Um, due to the kind of, um, political situation where. In the eighties, they announced that, um, China was gonna hand, sorry, um, Britain was gonna hand over Hong Kong to China.

[00:01:51] And so my parents thought, Hey, you know, let's go to a Western country. Let's migrate there. And kind of came here when I was two years old, grew up here and, um, [00:02:00] grew up in Irvington, uh, which was at the time, about 40 years ago, like farmland. Um, I still remember like some road like kissing Point road being partly.

[00:02:09] And like horse carriages and, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. So coming over as an immigrant was kind of a, an interesting experience in that time, especially in like areas where, you know, we were pretty far out. Um, You know, growing up, especially as like the token Asian person as well was, was an interesting experience.

[00:02:25] I think a lot of people can attest to that type of, um, experience as well. Um, but I'd say that it's kind of given me a lot of different perspectives because I've had to grow up with other immigrants. I've had to grow up with other Australians that weren't necessarily, um, , you know, as exposed to Asians at the time.

[00:02:40] And so over the years, you know, um, I've gotten to know a lot of different cultures as a result of that. I've experienced a whole lot of typical Australian racism, , , uh, but it's made me stronger and made me more tolerant, I guess, than, than what I do. And yeah, that, that's a bit about me, I guess. Um, I don't know about if you want me to go into schooling cause that's always 

[00:02:57] Carlo Selorio: been, yeah.

[00:02:57] So yeah, you would've gone to [00:03:00] school. Um, out at DDAs, right? For parties like that. Dda. So high school, pat. Yeah. Pats . Well, pat at 

[00:03:06] Patrick Tsang: Pats . 

[00:03:06] Carlo Selorio: Um, yeah. Tell us about how Hadd you, um, grew up there and like, because you would've shaped on what you wanted to do in the future, 

[00:03:14] Patrick Tsang: right? Yeah. Look, um, I'd say going to St.

[00:03:18] Pat's gave me, um, Like I said before, a bit of a, um, a diverse view on, on life. Um, you know, growing up with different people from different cultures gave me, um, just a different perspective on things, and I think a lot of that led to where I am now. Um, I'd say that, you know, our school in particular, wasn.

[00:03:35] Necessarily an academic, uh, uh, sorry, academia based school. Um, it was a bit different in terms of they, they wanted us to get exposed to a lot of different things and sports expression. You right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say a lot of of the, the people in, in my, in my school, like from different years, they all rep, like some of 'em represented Australian Sporting.

[00:03:52] Um, and for myself, You know, I, I'm, I guess I know a lot about different sports, but I'm not necessarily the greatest at the . 

[00:03:57] Carlo Selorio: Hey, hey, you played touched football together, . [00:04:00] Yeah, we got injured 

[00:04:01] Patrick Tsang: at . Yeah. Yeah. That's just me being old and, and unfit and probably from past injuries as well. . Well, look, I think SCORE helped a lot.

[00:04:09] It's, um, , I think people in particular at the school, some of the teachers were really impactful and influential in my life. Um, you know, they, they told me things like, oh, you know, I remember one particular teacher that was saying to me, um, you know, the first impression counts the most. Um, you could see.

[00:04:22] You know, your future employer might be walking down the road or driving down the road and they see you. What are they gonna think? Um, cuz first impressions really matter. Yeah. Um, and so that kind of stuck to me for my life. And then, um, you know, and I guess even from the way I present myself and I speak to people and what I wear, particularly at meetings and stuff, is kind of because of what he said has impacted in, in what I've kind of done and.

[00:04:42] I think maybe in, in a, in a a way as well, like when he was saying stuff like that, to me it kind of geared me towards being a consultant, which is what I am these days. Right. I've been doing it for like 20 years now. Consulting in a whole bunch of different things. Yeah. But, um, you know, in school particularly learning about sciences and stuff and, and, um, And some of the math subjects.

[00:04:58] That was something that I [00:05:00] really loved and I think that's why kind of went towards engineering. Um, over time. Um, I'd say that video games also played a huge part back in the day. playing way too many games in thinking like everyone else. Computer science is about building games, right? Yeah, exactly. It.

[00:05:13] But it's like, it's not . It's definitely not. Oh. Um, and yeah, that was something that beat me and your wife and everyone else figured out. Were like, oh, this is not what has cracked up , 

[00:05:26] Carlo Selorio: because you, you guys all went to different paths. So some, some went to analytics, some went. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being consultants.

[00:05:34] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, back in the day it was like software engineering or like AI or networks, and I chose to do network engineering in university, and it didn't really lead me to network engineering. It was actually the jobs, like every time I applied for a network engineering job, I got knocked back.

[00:05:49] It was actually other things that I got put into, and as a result, Doing a whole lot of diverse jobs over the years, it kind of led me to doing all kind of well rounded or [00:06:00] more rounded stuff. Yeah. So, um, Yeah, it's kind of a weird and interesting kind of career as well. . 

[00:06:05] Carlo Selorio: So after high school, you went to Sydney Uni, right?

[00:06:09] And what was the course that you did over there? 

[00:06:12] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, so it started off as computer science and then we went and I actually wanted to do stuff I did in high school. So I really liked geography, which is kind of weird. I liked, you know, psychology. So I decided to switch from pure com computer science to.

[00:06:27] Um, but I still had, um, I'd say the majority of the courses that I did were still, um, the majority in kind of the engineering side of things, but more the software side of things. Yeah. Um, and then I ended up majoring in like network engineering. So, um, that was kind of something that is still very relevant today.

[00:06:42] But yeah, definitely, 

[00:06:44] Carlo Selorio: especially with AI and everything coming. Coming to place now. Changing. 

[00:06:50] Patrick Tsang: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Man, you, you know, you still need to sort out your networks before you do anything else. Uh, it's like the, the basis and the foundation for everything. But, um, yeah, no, it, it wasn't just that, like, [00:07:00] I'd say uni for me was kind of a rollercoaster, but.

[00:07:02] I ended up learning a whole lot of things that I probably didn't need to learn, but it's kind of made me who I am. So like at one point I was doing like graphic design cuz I wanted to do it. Um, and then I did software engineering as a major as well, and. You know, you name it, every single subject on the son I ended up doing and I racked up a massive bill from it.

[00:07:23] Carlo Selorio: you're still playing your Hes, are you ? Well, 

[00:07:25] Patrick Tsang: that was a recent thing that I paid off. No, I'm kidding. . It's been while, but yeah, it was a massive 

[00:07:29] Carlo Selorio: bill. Uh, it, but it's all that would've shaped on what the actual roles that you've, you've been doing. Coming into consultation, um, being a consultant. Yeah. What led you to becoming a consultant anyway?

[00:07:44] So after all those 

[00:07:45] Patrick Tsang: roles? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I'd say to start, um, a lot of it was related to money. I was like looking at what. I was getting, and then I'll see what other people would get. And I was like, how do you become a consultant? This is crazy. How are they getting that much work? ? [00:08:00] And you know what?

[00:08:02] I actually worked four years as a permanent staff member before I kind of ventured into, um, the realms of consulting and, and contracting. And I did that in the uk and I, I learned off a few influential people. Um, and they taught me a lot about, you know, how, what it was to be a good consultant, how it was, uh, to.

[00:08:18] um, uh, businesses, uh, and what we should be doing, what we should be thinking about, all that type of stuff. But, um, no, it was, it was kind of interesting and it started off as money, but now it's more a, um, I'd say I've kind of gone past that and it's more about giving back. Yeah. 

[00:08:29] Carlo Selorio: Nice. Um, which, um, what, which kind of, um, startups have you helped over the years?

[00:08:34] Yeah, 

[00:08:34] Patrick Tsang: yeah, yeah. So look, I'd say from a career perspective, um, I've worked for really, really big companies like enterprises, but I've also worked for startups and medium sized firms. Um, and with what I've done a lot of the times when, so let me, let me start with startups to, to, yes. To start, but. You know, with companies that just start up, their typical approach is to like build something really quick and dirty, get something on the market that shows some value before they can [00:09:00] start scaling and, and, um, thinking about fixing things down the track.

[00:09:03] and usually when I get involved is either, um, towards the part where they start getting more funding because that's when they have the opportunity to, to fix and scale. Um, and sometimes it's to the point. You know, they, they get in. They're really successful. , but what they've actually got from a digital perspective isn't scaling at all because it was really badly implemented

[00:09:24] Um, or at the same time, it might not even be a technology problem. Right. There's been times where I've gone in, um, and companies are very dysfunctional, so you know, you have different groups of people that wanna work in a very siloed manner where they don't really want to talk to each other. Yeah. It creates bottle.

[00:09:39] Uh, you know, inviting and all this type of stuff and they become very inefficient. Um, so I've actually also helped from a people and process perspective, um, and I'd say from a consulting side of things, um, My lens is always one where I look at people, process and technology. I don't just look at technology.

[00:09:53] So, um, you know, when I've been working with startups like in the legal tech sector, um, in, uh, even for just friends starting up [00:10:00] some, um, educational sector type, uh, startups, um, I've kind of gone in and kind given them advice in terms of. What they should be looking for from a hiring perspective, what they need to think about from a cost from an mvp, which is like a minimal viable product perspective.

[00:10:14] Yep. So a lot of the startups I do work with are mainly more from the digital side of things. Nice. Um, which I'd say is probably the trend these days anyway. 

[00:10:22] Carlo Selorio: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of companies are coming through, especially during the. Pandemic. Um, 

[00:10:27] Patrick Tsang: yeah, , you can't see anyone, so what can you do? Right? You've got a computer, you've got a screen, let's, let's build an application 

[00:10:32] Carlo Selorio: for you.

[00:10:33] So yeah, there's, there's a lot of apps that's come, come about because of it. Or a lot of, some e-commerce companies have come and started doing their, their thing as well, or they've transitioned from, um, shopfront to becoming eCommerce businesses as well. Um, what was. What was the wins as a consultant for you when you first.

[00:10:53] Money . 

[00:10:54] Patrick Tsang: Money 

[00:10:57] Carlo Selorio: to start anyway. Right. Which is true. Which is true. Well, you, you become a [00:11:00] consultant to earn the money, right? Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:11:03] Patrick Tsang: And look there, I'd say that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm kind of casting a very generic item consulting, but there are actually different types of consulting as well. There is, there is.

[00:11:11] You know, early in my career I was doing a lot of tactical consulting, which is like, oh, uh, management level and below there's a lot of problems that they're facing. They need someone who has some very, um, deep technical or subject manager, sub subject matter expertise and a certain area, and they need someone to come in and implement stuff.

[00:11:29] Like, that's kind of the low level consulting stuff. You still get paid pretty well because you have that deep kind of level of knowledge. Yeah. But then there's also this strategic level of consulting where you're going to like C levels, uh, so like CEOs, CTOs, CIOs, um, CFOs sometimes as well. But, you know, I, I'll go in at that level sometimes and help them with like roadmaps.

[00:11:46] Like, how do you want to get your company from A to B? Usually it's like a digital transformation. How do you get from. Like from, um, working in a very traditional manner to working in a much more efficient and lean manner. So that's kind of the stuff I tend to [00:12:00] help with. Um, sorry, what was your original question?

[00:12:01] I kind of deviated it. 

[00:12:02] Carlo Selorio: No, no, no, that's perfect. Is that, um, yeah, there's different types of consult consultants and, um, yeah. Um, , we'll, we'll go through that path because it's actually perfect. I wanted to know what the actual different types of consultants are. So you've gone through two different types of consultants, um, and um, Yeah, 

[00:12:19] Patrick Tsang: so there's like two different types of consulting right in, in my mind anyway, and from my experience.

[00:12:23] Um, so it's like going in and helping CEOs or CTOs with their technology strategy, like how do they, um, get from, uh, an on-premise data center to moving into the cloud where they can scale a lot more. So, you know, when we're talking. And maybe this might not apply to all the viewership because they're, they're working in the, the startup kind of phase and they're still kind of expanding.

[00:12:45] But I guess these are kind of things that you might need to think about as you get bigger, or even maybe some of your listeners might be somewhat like, you know, business owners that run medium sized businesses. These are kind of things you're gonna need to think about when you're actually starting to increase your footprint.

[00:12:59] And, you know, you, [00:13:00] you get more of a customer base and things like that. Yeah. I'm gonna need to think about like how you're going to actually scale for the demand that's gonna come. Yeah. Right. And a lot of the people these days are like moving to public cloud, uh, which is like companies like Amazon Web Services, so AWS.

[00:13:17] Microsoft Azure. Yeah, Google Cloud, all that type of stuff. Like that's kind of stuff I help with and I show them, Hey, these are the types of tools you should be using. This is the kind of approach you should be thinking about from a cost and a performance perspective here. The trade offs. Like, that's the ki kind of stuff that I'm kind of doing now.

[00:13:35] And even from a CFO perspective, sometimes I go and talk to them and say, Hey, this is what you need to think about from a financial perspective. If you start moving from this kind of old model, this like data center model and, um, where you own your own hardware, you know, you, you, you provision and you scale in that way, and then you move to a, to like a, almost like a leasing model.

[00:13:53] How does that kinda work? How does that impact you? So there's that type of. . And that actually is really rewarding [00:14:00] cuz you see, I guess, really big scale changes. Like you don't necessarily get the publicity, but you know, deep down because you've been helping people that Yeah. You know they're succeeding cuz their company's 

[00:14:10] Carlo Selorio: succeeding.

[00:14:10] Yeah. The company's moving towards the actual goals that they want to get to. 

[00:14:14] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, yeah. As a business as well. Right. It's not just their own personal goals, it's their business goals. And that's kind of the consulting that I, I am currently doing. Yeah. And that's kind. The consulting that I like doing more, but to each their own.

[00:14:27] Right. And I'd say that if you're doing like tactical level consulting where you're doing more of the engineering and the implementation, it's still very good and still very lucrative. Yeah. Um, and you still get a really good sense of achievement because you've built. Something that, or you, you've implemented something that no one else has been able to do or advise on things that no one else knew about.

[00:14:48] Yeah. Um, which is still really cool, but the scale is a bit smaller, I guess. Yeah. Um, but still really cool and still very lucrative. , 

[00:14:55] Carlo Selorio: hey, it's when you are, you are, when you are a consultant, if you are, if you get, [00:15:00] you know that you're doing a good job when they're hiring you for whatever, whatever dollar amount that you asked for.

[00:15:06] Right. Yeah. And as a consultant on the flip side anyway, um, did you have any, um, downfalls or like was there any missteps that you thought, Hey, because you worked as a. You work as an employee for the first four years of your career. Have you ever thought of like, at the start, being a consultant? 

[00:15:27] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:28] So if, if you ever wanted to go down this path where you want to, you know, you know, be your own, um, business and kind of be a consultant and a contractor, yeah, there's a lot of things you need to think about. So it, my approach is kind. , um, one that I've personally taken, but I'll, I'll kind of walk you through the, the theory and my thinking around some of stuff, but, um, essentially when you're consulting and contracting a lot of the time you tend to utilize a lot of existing knowledge and to really keep up to date, um, and make sure that your are employed over other people that might be competition.

[00:15:59] So, you know, [00:16:00] especially in. Um, when you think about it, it's almost like running a business in that way as well. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta compete against other people because you are working in limited tenure positions. Yeah. And you need to compete against the pool of people that have sort of similar skills there.

[00:16:14] How do you separate yourself? How do you, um, keep yourself up to date so that you are always hired, uh, to outsource your services to do, um, some piece of work? Right. How do you do that? So, In my mind when I, when I was thinking about that type of stuff, um, I actually ended up switching between consulting and contracting to then being a permanent staff.

[00:16:30] Yeah. And I did that because when you're a permanent staff member, you get, you tend to get paid training. Yes. So kind of, and if you look at my LinkedIn, you'll kind of see it. I went from being a contractor for a few. Um, utilize all my existing knowledge and like my cutting edge type of stuff. And, you know, I'd consult on that stuff and then I'd go back to a company that was innovative, that had, that was known for good culture and training and I'd go there and train myself up for a few years, then go out again and be a contractor.

[00:16:56] And it was kind of this constant change. And then I think [00:17:00] that was kind the approach that I took that made me. I guess not to toot my own horn, but like somewhat successful and still relevant. 

[00:17:08] Carlo Selorio: I guess. It's all right to toot your own horn, , pat. It's ok. Especially for my show. You can toot your own horn

[00:17:14] I can as much as I what? Um, so as a consultant, what makes you stand out from your competitors? 

[00:17:19] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, so a lot of the time, I guess for me, particularly in, in my kind of field, um, working. Very well-known companies has helped a lot. Um, and not just working there, but doing things that are very impactful. So like I'd say in the last 10 years, every place I've gone to, I've done something that has changed the organization in some way.

[00:17:40] Um, and a lot of the time, I'd say it's through what you mentioned earlier, which is like, uh, working in the DevOps kind of field. Yeah. Which in itself is very transformation. . So a little bit about that as well. So the reason why that that word even exists is because, um, in the old days you used to have development teams that used to build a lot of software.

[00:17:59] They'd [00:18:00] pass it over the fence. They wouldn't care about anything that happened bef like after, and then eventually it'd get to production or where it would be public facing. So people could actually access it publicly, but it'd be the operations teams who inherited this stuff. And they'd be like, what's, what is this?

[00:18:16] I don't even know what this is. And the reason why that those two words are joined together is because the whole concept is, you know, we want to work together as one, we want to collaborate more, we want to work more efficiently and all that type of stuff. And we want to break down barriers. Yeah. Um, especially culturally.

[00:18:32] Yeah. Everyone's included in the same process. So you can do things a lot more efficiently, um, and quickly. So that's what DevOps is in an nutshell. Yeah. But, um, yeah, so that, that's all I've been doing for the last few years. And you see a lot of the transformation work that I do is usually DevOps related.

[00:18:48] Yeah. Um, not just process, sorry, not just technology, it's people and process as well. So I'll also go. See what skillsets people have, whether they're working well together. Yeah. Figure out ways to get 'em to work [00:19:00] better. 

[00:19:00] Carlo Selorio: Yeah, yeah. Um, so you've become pretty much like a unicorn trying to go, gone through the different, different industries, different roles, and was able to stand out that way, I guess.

[00:19:09] Yeah. 

[00:19:09] Patrick Tsang: Yeah, man, for sure. Like, you know, I think it was, I think my current character is like 30. Rolls somewhere. . 

[00:19:18] Carlo Selorio: That 

[00:19:18] Patrick Tsang: is awesome. A lot of it is. Yep, mate. A lot of it is just me going in for like, especially in the early days, like go in for three months, um, you know, really fix something and then hand it over to other people and say, Hey, job done, and then move on to the next one.

[00:19:30] So yeah, you can. I've been racking 'em up for years. , 

[00:19:35] Carlo Selorio: Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. It's like, it's actually, um, and plus you learn little things from those kind of projects that you're working on. Massively, mate. Massively. So what motivates you daily, pat? 

[00:19:46] Patrick Tsang: Um, I'd say the thing that motivates me the most is the sense of achievement when you do really awesome things.

[00:19:53] I don't necessarily get it every day because it takes a while to get stuff sorted, especially in big [00:20:00] companies, but, um, I guess I kind of anticipate and kind of of build myself up for it. So, yeah. Um, you know, daily, that's kind how I think and, and work and I'd say. You know, going to conferences and stuff and, and meetups where I meet other business owners that run startups is kind of, um, great as well.

[00:20:14] So I've helped companies in, in kind of consulting in, in those type of places. Yeah. Um, and in, in those type of ways, um, Sorry, I'm not probably elaborating really well on that, but you know, I've gone to conferences. I've helped people that are starting up businesses and given 'em advice, connected 'em to people, that type of stuff.

[00:20:28] Yeah. And that's what I find meant more. Yeah. But I get really, I feel a sense of achievement when I do that type 

[00:20:33] of 

[00:20:33] Carlo Selorio: stuff. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Given back, given back to, um, to what you've learned in the past and being able to. , um, handed over to people and connecting people. That's what I, what's, that's what I love doing as well.

[00:20:44] It's like, um, I was able to connect a few people with the podcast as well, and it's just, it's just a good, good feeling that you're able to help people that need help. Right? Yes. Um, who were your influences? Who are your influences growing up in, in business or in, in your [00:21:00] industries that you've worked? Wow.

[00:21:03] Mentors. Even 

[00:21:04] Patrick Tsang: there, there's been a lot. Ben , . I, I can't, like, I'd say in my early days when I started off as a consultant, there was one particular person, um, in industry, I don't know if I should mention their name, but essentially I saw them as kind of my guiding light and they kind of went out of their way to help me, especially when I first started off.

[00:21:22] Um, I'd say I'd call this person like a. He, he's like a machine man. , honestly, you talk to him before, like you have a really complicated problem. You ask him and he'll already have told you the solution and he'd be four steps ahead of you. Yeah. And you're like trying to play mental chess and put it all together and go, how the hell did he come up with that?

[00:21:43] Or, I don't even know what he means sometimes . But that was like my first few years of working where I, um, you know, shout out to Ivan, who? Yeah. The person I'm talking about. Shout out Ivan. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, you know, Ivan. basically my first, um, real mentor I guess, and he was the guy that ran the business I was working in.

[00:21:59] It was like a [00:22:00] 40 person consulting business at the time. Um, so he taught me a lot. And working in that type of company to start that was really rewarding and really eye-opening because when you run it, run in such a small company, you pretty much have to do everything. Yeah. And having someone that has already done this stuff and is running the business and showing you how to do this, Was, was really, really impactful.

[00:22:21] Yeah. Um, I'd, I'd I'd say like, you know, that that person, uh, you know, Ivan, um, he definitely helped me in, in big ways and, and, uh, just to start anyway. But, um, I'd say going further on, you know, I met a lot of different people along the way and. I'd say that there are certain people that I've met that have kind of shown me how to be a better consultant, but a better leader as well.

[00:22:40] Um, and an empathetic leader. And I think these days, I think I value that most. Yeah. And I'd say that there was a lot of people, and not just leaders and mentors, but even just people I work with, they've taught me things because, um, when you operate and you lead in a certain way, and the way I do it is through like, You know, a servant leader type of mentality [00:23:00] where, you know, I treat people the same as they treat me.

[00:23:02] I don't like the title of a boss. They tell me everything cuz I, you know, I tell them everything. I'm really transparent in that way. I think if you have that type of relationship, you tend to learn a lot from everyone. Yeah. Um, and I'd say that that's definitely the way that I've. Being able to change a lot of places too.

[00:23:18] Carlo Selorio: Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's about having that culture changing cultures is, I know that I've worked for some really big companies and it's just the culture. It's where the leadership, leadership has to start. If you wanted to, if you wanted to change a culture, the leaders need to be able to. Show them how to, or they have to get down to the employees level to be able to change things up.

[00:23:45] Yeah, that's the perfect way. 

[00:23:47] Patrick Tsang: Yeah. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. And I'd say like, just to add a little bit, like the first thing that always do when I start an organization and I'm putting into a leadership position is I'll kind of, you know, go to the factory floor as, uh, you know, you'd say and see it [00:24:00] actually for the first week, what actually happens.

[00:24:03] Without really knowing what happens on the ground, you don't really know how everything's really working. Yeah. Um, you know, as a leader, especially in big enterprises, like I'm currently at, it's like, you know, you have about 20 people that you might get reports off, and then you're like, oh. What does that actually mean?

[00:24:18] Is this real or are they faking numbers? Yeah, , yes, true. That's, that's massive scale, right? Like you're talking huge, huge scales here. But I'd say as a startup, um, probably one of the best things to do is to really know your people and make sure you're very careful about hiring people. Don't just hire people.

[00:24:35] You don't really. Try and get 'em through. Friends and referrals. Yeah. Or people who are really well connected and, uh, he'll do really well in that way. Yeah. 

[00:24:44] Carlo Selorio: Perfect, perfect. Going forward as a consultant or future business owner, I know that you, you got your hands in different pies, right? Yeah. Um, what are the big goals for you for, as in the next three to 10?

[00:24:56] Well, 

[00:24:56] Patrick Tsang: I mean, I've kind of told you a little bit like I'm studying for the [00:25:00] mba. That will probably take me two years. learning another language. Oh my gosh. That's gonna be a, uh, another probably a year at least. Never. Yeah. Um, but I'd say that a lot of this is, um, with the thought of being on more kind of rounded.

[00:25:16] Um, leader that can operate in any of the regions around the world. That's kind where I want to be, and that's kind of eventually what I'd wanna do. Maybe when the kids were a little older. Yeah. 

[00:25:28] Carlo Selorio: going to different countries. Yeah, 

[00:25:30] Patrick Tsang: yeah, yeah. Doing way too much about lately, but , 

[00:25:34] Carlo Selorio: there's nothing wrong. They get to learn, the kids get to learn different cultures, right?

[00:25:38] Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. That is great. So it's about getting. Learning, learning a different language, and then I think growing. Growing as a leader, as you said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's your top three advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and business owners? Ooh. 

[00:25:55] Patrick Tsang: Okay. I'd say that, um, number one is to [00:26:00] go to some of these conferences and meetups.

[00:26:03] The stronger your network, the more um, you're gonna be able to leverage. So not just from a advice perspective, but if you go to these meetups, you might find people that are very skilled in certain ways that you might have gaps for in the business that you're trying to start up. Yeah. Um, and so going to these events is really, really crucial.

[00:26:20] And hell, you might even meet me there cuz I do help out in these things. Yeah. . Um, so, you know, getting to know the people in the market. The people that can really help grow your business is, is really, really, really key. Yeah. Um, getting advice and, and like a support kind of mechanism for what you do is also important.

[00:26:38] That's why you need to go to those things. So yeah, I'd say that's probably the biggest piece of advice. Um, the next piece of advice is, uh, from a funding perspective, um, you know, a lot of people, especially when they. Want to create startups, you know, they don't necessarily, they might have one particular skillset set.

[00:26:54] So trying to get someone who has, like, say, like even from my side, uh, my own [00:27:00] perspective, right? I'm, I'm good at technology, but I don't necessarily know the finance side of things. Yeah. I'd say if I was looking for, to, to build a startup, I'd need to find someone who had that kind of skillset, but really understanding.

[00:27:10] Um, what you can bring to the table and what other people can bring to the table to make a more complete business is something that's really key as well to make it successful. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, you know, I've run into so many people that have created startups where, um, they haven't necessarily gone, gone well because, They're really good at technology.

[00:27:26] They've built amazing products, but they didn't really know how to market it out. They didn't have the network for it. That's right. Um, they didn't know the cost of doing this stuff, so they burnt through their, their invest, the, the initial investment. They got a lot of these things, you know, it's good to have people that are experienced so they can kind of of point you and point, like, give you advice in, in terms of, you know, how you could approach this better.

[00:27:45] Mm-hmm. I I think that's really, really important. I think that's definitely key. Um, and I think I've covered pretty much all of it. Network people, um, and, you know, support 

[00:27:54] Carlo Selorio: when you need it. Yeah. Nice. Perfect. So I think no matter what ki [00:28:00] what kind of business you're in, I think those three are really key to helping any business growth or Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:07] Or definitely start the businesses anyway. Um, This is like a, a big question. How do you want to impact the world and what kind of legacy do you want to have? 

[00:28:18] Patrick Tsang: Whoa, that is . How would I want to impact the world? Oh man. I think I'm thinking a bit too big here. . . No. Look, um, honestly, man, um, From a legacy point of view, I want to be someone that's, uh, I want to be known as, you know, someone that's helpful, I guess.

[00:28:35] And, um, I guess by me giving back, you kind of see that. I wouldn't say it's any deeper than that, to be fair. Um, but in terms of like worldwide impact, I'd say I'd have to be like a c e o of a global company or something, or like a board member. Right. But I don't know if I'll get there and, um, In the next five years, maybe 10, 

[00:28:55] Carlo Selorio: maybe.

[00:28:56] Maybe. Nice. I can't wait. 

[00:28:58] Patrick Tsang: I have to have white hair. . [00:29:00]

[00:29:01] Carlo Selorio: You'll be like, 

[00:29:04] Patrick Tsang: that happens when I'm.

[00:29:05] Carlo Selorio: Well, it's, uh, I think, um, you have, you have the skillset to, to actually achieve those, those goals. I think it's, um, it's good to have a goal that's out there for you to reach rather than having no goal at all to just cruise in what you wanna do. And I think that's, that's perfect if you get, if you, even if you don't get there, at least you get, you're on your way to what you wanted to do.

[00:29:26] Yeah. 

[00:29:26] Patrick Tsang: Um, I think, yeah, as long as you have the right foundations and you move in the right direction, it'll all kind of fall in place. But yeah, you need to set yourself up. So, 

[00:29:33] Carlo Selorio: yeah. Um, fun question. I know, I know you, I think you, you read a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you re, do you recommend one book? Um, what if you could recommend one.

[00:29:45] Or a few books. Oh man. To our readers. Uh, to our listeners. Yeah. What would it be? 

[00:29:51] Patrick Tsang: Okay. All right. And why? One book that I feel has helped [00:30:00] with my understanding and what I do, uh, and, and made it kind of better, is probably a book called The. Uh, by, uh, Elihu Evan Goldratt. So if anyone has ever looked at the Lean Methodology, six Sigma.

[00:30:12] Yeah. Um, any kind of transformation. Um, it's a book to read. It's really, really good because it. Shows you kind of, I think it was in the 1950s when it was, but they're essentially looking at manufacturing problems and how to fix them. So there's a lot of theory around how the, how they did it, and a lot of it actually applies to things that I do in it.

[00:30:32] Nice. Um, and so maybe the viewers may or may not know this, but a lot of the stuff that we do in it and the methodologies we follow is actually all from manufacturing. Yeah. Um, and. You know, for me, reading that book, it's really helped in a lot of things. Um, so it, you know, it helps you think not just inside your work.

[00:30:47] It helps you think about optimizing things you do in your day-to-day life. Um, how do you remove things that are taking too much of your time, um, you know, removing bottlenecks in your life that, that kind of helps as well. So it's a [00:31:00] really good book. Um, it's a precursor to a lot of the other books that are really well known in the it.

[00:31:05] Realm. So like things like the Phoenix Project. Um, if anyone's kind of into it or they're building kind of a digital kind of startup, they'll probably have read the Phoenix Project because that's the kind of stuff they're gonna run into in the next stage of their growth. . Yeah, . So, um, 

[00:31:19] Carlo Selorio: yeah, so there's, there's, there's a two books.

[00:31:20] So the goal by. 

[00:31:23] Patrick Tsang: El Efu. It's like a Jewish guy. El Efu m Goldratt. I can, I can share you the links later. 

[00:31:28] Carlo Selorio: Yeah. Nice. Awesome. And the Phoenix project as well. Excellent. Yeah. This perfect, perfect books to have for startups and business owners. Um, if the listeners need help and like all business owners, um, wanna get some advice from you.

[00:31:42] Yeah. Um, how can they reach. If businesses wanted to come work with you as well, how can they 

[00:31:49] Patrick Tsang: reach you? I, I'd definitely say LinkedIn is probably the best way to do it. Nice. You can just look me up there and I'll probably add you, just say, you heard about me from the Business Launch [00:32:00] podcast, and I'll be like, yep, no problem.

[00:32:02] Well, Carlos sent me . Yeah. 

[00:32:05] Carlo Selorio: That's awesome. Yeah, and that, that's definitely the way forward. I'll put your, um, I'll put your. Link in the show notes and then we can go from there. Yeah, no problem. That's perfect

[00:32:17] thank you again, pat, for, um, a nice talk and I think it's, , a lot of our listeners would appreciate the, the background of your, your history and how you come about, especially as a consultant, because, uh, I think it's the perfect, perfect episode for those who want to dabble into consulting or even learning about, um, Growing their business and startups as well.

[00:32:39] So thank you so much again. I know you're a very busy man with your family and your work and, um, I truly appreciate for being part of the the Business Launch Podcast. 

[00:32:49] Patrick Tsang: No worries. Thanks for the time man and mate, I always got time for you, that's for sure. 

[00:32:53] Carlo Selorio: So, yeah, well I'm, I think, I think we're true for a catch up as well, so, um, some Barbie, I haven't been to your place for a while, I think.

[00:32:59] Yeah, [00:33:00] we'll bring some, I know there's an elna down the road from you now, so , so I'll bring some John sometime. Definitely, 

[00:33:07] Patrick Tsang: mate, definitely 

[00:33:07] Carlo Selorio: apologize. Yeah, thank, thank you again Pat. And um, hopefully I'll have this release. Next week for you and you'll, we'll get everyone, um, listening to it. No problem, man.

[00:33:16] Thank you and have a great day, bro. Dude. Catch you later. Huh? Okay, see you later. 

[00:33:22] Patrick Tsang: See you bud. Bye