He takes us yet again on an adventure, but this time through his experiences in Auctions, work and family.

Timestamps:
[00:01:59] | Property investing strategy
[00:07:45]  | Mindset can change your life
[00:12:38]  | Every opportunity is a learning opportunity
[00:15:21]  | Make your own power
[00:19:28]  | The Aussie dream
 
Resources and Links:

[00:02:04]  I had maybe 12 properties at the time. A lot of them were still under construction. Projects fell over. 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors, to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we continue our conversation with property tax specialist Amir Ishak. We hear about the fear that made him miss out on $300,000, the moment he realised that Australia was his home, and the best advice he’s ever received. All that and more on this episode... 

Tyrone Shum  

Ishak was at the top of the Dubai market when it all came crashing down. He has learned many valuable lessons along the way and has had life experiences that have forever changed his perspective on life. 

Amir Ishak  

[00:00:19] I wouldn't put it down to one aha moment, because the way I am I learn a lot. And I see a lot and I, I always get aha moments. Like, it's not a one aha moment that changed my life. Yes, there are key milestones that changed my life. But it usually makes sense to me In hindsight. Things don't make sense to me in the present as much as: Ah that makes sense now, kind of thing. You know, I'm usually a lot faster than the, than the pace.

Tyrone Shum   

Although he struggled to pick one defining incident, there was one experience that triggered an eye-opening realisation.  

Amir Ishak    

[00:01:10] I think that whole experience of seeing the opportunity. Seeing the network's. Everything, just, you know, when everything fits together, that was the key aha moment for me. But then, I think it made sense, it made too much sense. And I stopped calculating risk, as much as I should have. And just followed the greater fool theory. And, you know, I paid the price. Lucky it’s... we survived it, we went on, and, you know, things worked out for the best in the end.

Tyrone Shum   

While Ishak was busy building himself an empire in Dubai, the Global markets had other plans. When the GFC hit, Ishak lost everything he had built and made it out by the skin of his teeth. He reflects on what he would have done differently if he knew what was coming. 

Amir Ishak   

[00:01:59] I think I wouldn't have exposed myself so so much to property. I had maybe 12 properties at the time. A lot of them were still under construction. Projects fell over. It was a very painful time in Dubai, you know, people, the time when people were just going to the airport, leaving their cars in the airport and just abandoning everything. It was a very stressful time. Lucky, I managed to keep my job. And that helped me go through it. But it was a very stressful time for everyone. 

Because everyone was saying before, that Dubai was decoupled from the rest of the world, which is again, in hindsight doesn't make any sense. But all the commentary was Dubai was decoupled Dubai is decoupled. And in November, So Jeff like the Lehman Brothers went down in September. So from September till November, I sold about three properties, and they were what kept me afloat. In November, one of the key companies in Dubai went under, and then it went from, like, fell off a cliff, the whole economy fell off a cliff. So it was quite a stressful time for me.

Tyrone Shum  

Although he loved the property experience he had in Dubai prior to the GFC, he’s taking a different approach in Australia. 

Amir Ishak    

[00:003:53]  For the first few years, I was here, I wasn't focused on Australia. And I think that cost me a lot. But more recently, now, you know, I'm an accountant. Okay, so I own nothing. I own absolutely nothing. What I control on the other, on the other hand, is very different. So I’ve invested in a few things. One of the projects that I'm controlling now is approaching handover completion, which is a small development near Newcastle. So that's one thing I'm working on. 

Another experience in Australia. You know, when they say timing is perfect, and research is perfect. The first property I went to buy in Australia was on the day of the previous election last election, which was the bottom of the market when labour were coming in. Everyone. I went to auction that day, I'd done my research. Everything's perfect. Only thing I didn't realise was I'm no good at auctions. I panicked. And because of that fear, I'd never been in auctions, I've always bought properties, you know, in sale agreements, not auctions. 

So that was my first experience in Australia. I could not handle it, and I was the highest bidder. Way below the budget I put for myself way below. But just the fear of being the highest bidder. For that 30, 40 seconds, I couldn't bid anymore after that. It went, I think 10,000 more, which was maybe 60,000 below my budget still. But I just could not get over that fear. So that taught me if I'm going to buy auction, I'm going to get someone who’s specialised to go and bid for me. It's, you know, the things that you don't know until you realise you don't know them. So that was one of them. That property went up, you know, 300,000 since then. Yeah. Which is, you know, I’d done. My research it was perfect. 

But, again, there are always opportunities in the market. And someone, you know, a very close mentor and friend told me that there are always opportunities, don't cry over spilt milk, learn from it, and try to identify the other opportunities around you. And I see that with all my clients every day, they're identifying good properties, there are opportunities, there is. So be positive.

Tyrone Shum  

He didn't see his newfound fear coming, as he always assumed he would be a confident buyer

Amir Ishak    

[00:07:07]  Look, I did not expect this outcome. I always looked at myself - that piece of cake. But that situation kind of opened my eyes a bit. And that's why going to an expert, or someone who knows what they're doing is always a better option.

Mindset segment 

Tyrone Shum  

While his passion lies with property, he is also very analytical. He pursued a career in property tax because it’s the best of both worlds 

Amir Ishak    

[00:07:45] look, it's something I like, something I enjoy. I like to, you know, the way I approach it is I'm quite very analytical, I'm an accountant, I'm very analytical. And I process information, either very slowly, extremely slowly, or very fast. When it doesn't make sense to me, I just don't get it. When it makes sense to me, I see four, five steps ahead. And I just kind of have some clarity that's worked well for me in the past. You know, when I'm sitting with clients, sometimes I can see where the conversation is going. And I see the end result and I have to work backwards to make sure that that's what they want. Because sometimes people don't see it. And for me, that's... it's a double-edged sword. Because sometimes I'm way ahead of myself even.

Tyrone Shum    

Going from the fast-paced, High-end Dubai, to the laid-back, and down to earth Australia came with some challenges 

Amir Ishak   

[00:09:09] Everything is a transition. When I first came to Australia, I started working with an accountant, small suburban accountant, not the best experience of my life. And because it was a whole shift, like being from quite senior person in the corporate world to coming, working for a smaller accounting practice, just everything was a shift moving from Australia, leaving family behind. It was a very emotional time as well for me. 

So I started doing that. Then I was introduced by a friend to my current partner Chokri. So I worked with him in property tax specialist for about a year. And then I got an opportunity in the corporate world again with Deloitte. So I left because that was the kind of stepping stone that I wanted to take me back. That was the perfect, you know, being a director in Deloitte, would tick most of the boxes. I worked there for a while. you know, it was a great experience for me. During that time I started enjoying and seeing more. And then my parents came and said, kind of it was a discussion when my parents came and visited. And it all made sense, you know, an aha moment. That was an aha moment in hindsight. And that was an aha moment. They were asking, well, why do you want to go back? You know, is it just for money? Or do you enjoy it? What's the reasons? And we had that discussion, I remember in the car, and it all made sense then. 

And my whole perspective shifted to Australia. So I was... I found an opportunity for a childcare. And I came speak to Chokri about it, started talking, well, if you're doing something, I'm doing something where and that's where the partnership came from. So I came and joined Chokri we came, we're building the business, we're growing the business, and we're, you know, it's ah been quite rewarding 

Tyrone Shum    

[00:11:47] You mentioned a childcare centre. Is that a project you're talking about? Or is that something?

[00:11:52] It was at the time I was looking into that. But I partnered with Chokri instead, which I think is a much better decision. He's a great mentor, his, you know, an icon in the industry. He's, he's been a great part of my career and my stay in Australia. 

Coming up after the break, Ishak tells us the best piece of advice he’s received 

[00:16:59] there are always opportunities. But it's identifying them, understanding them, and being able to assess if those opportunities suit you or not,

We hear a bit more about his mindset 

Amir Ishak 

[00:22:47]  I think working smart is more important than working hard

What he misses about Dubai

Amir Ishak 

[00:19:00]  It's a big shift. And so yes, I did miss it. I did crave it

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

 

Tyrone Shum  

From facing a massive downfall during GFC, to moving countries and struggling to fit in, Ishak needed to have a strong support system around him. He looks at everyone he meets as a kind of mentor. 

Amir Ishak   

[00:12:38]  I approach it in the way that everyone I meet, I try to learn something from them or see something that I don't know. I'm quite inquisitive, sometimes annoyingly inquisitive. But the you know, that's the, that's my nature. So I absorb a lot of things from people. And throughout the bigger the network, the more people you meet, the more ideas you get. Sometimes it can become overwhelming. But if you're focused on what you're looking for, you see a path you are or that works for me quite well, the kind of path happens. Is it luck? Or is it hard work? I don't know. But it's a path. To me, everything's a path. And, and then looking back, I always see it. While I'm in it, sometimes it's not clear. But looking back, it's always a path.

Tyrone Shum   

He shares a few of the resources and books he’s enjoyed and drawn inspiration from over the years. 

Amir Ishak  

[00:13:54] I was working in Abu Dhabi and living in Dubai, that's an hour and 15 minutes each way from door to door. And during that time, I was driving, so I started listening to audiobooks. And I started with I think it was probably Napoleon Hill. And then that led me to, you know, Dale Carnegie and from one thing to another to another. I was in that job for three years. And just the amount of audiobooks I listened to was phenomenal. 

And a few really stand out. The key one is Napoleon Hill, which really started me, you know, think and Grow Rich, another one that stands out, and I liked it, and I didn't like it, but it opened my eyes for a lot of things, which was the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene. It's a very interesting book. To understand, especially the corporate world and understand certain things around you. I like that politics. You know, I listened to politics, psychology, everything I could get my hands on.

Despite disliking the notions it implied, the 48 laws of power was a book that interested him greatly. 

Amir Ishak   

[00:15:21] It's a book about power, and how people have used power, historically, and all the stories, but it's I personally didn't like it. It's in a sense that it was evil, or I looked at it evil. But or, you know, because a lot of things, I wouldn't do the same thing. But it opened my eyes on what can be done and what people do. And I think that was what really moved me about that book. 

Tyrone Shum  

He shares the best piece of advice he’s received on his life journey, that has always inspired him to keep going

Amir Ishak  

[00:16:26] I think the thing that I go back to, often again, and again and again, is there are always opportunities, there are always opportunities. That's to me, that's, that's, you know, one of those aha moments. You know, my friend, I recall, we were sitting down, I was down, and I'd lost an opportunity, and he was telling me, you know, don't worry, there are always opportunities. And then I started looking and I found opportunities, and there are always opportunities. But it's identifying them, understanding them, and being able to assess if those opportunities suit you or not, I think is key.

Tyrone Shum  

[00:17:38] if you met yourself, say 10 years ago, what do you think you would have said to him?

Amir Ishak    

[00:17:44] Make the most of every minute in Australia. Honestly, that would be. I think that trajectory would have been different. But having said that, I'm very happy where I am now. Because again, every single step took me to where I am now, if that makes sense. But I would have looked at opportunities differently, I would have looked at things differently, I would have focused more, I think I probably would have ended in the same place. But I would have been happier in the process.

Tyrone Shum   

Ishak says although he might miss his high-class lifestyle in Dubai, it probably isn't for him anymore. 

Amir Ishak   

[00:18:42] You know, once you're looking back because I kept looking back because I had a good job. I had the... you know, the fun cars, I had that. All of it. You know, it's a very once you're there. It's a big shift. And so yes, I did miss it. I did crave it, you know, but now looking at it would I go back? I highly doubt it. I highly doubt it. I've built enough here. It's different. But I enjoy this more.

Tyrone Shum  

[00:19:23] What do you feel that you enjoy the most about here... living in Australia.

Amir Ishak   

[00:19:28] living in the moment enjoying it, enjoying the time with the kids, we're all focused. It's not easy, because family is very important to us. And this last year and a half has been very painful. I usually, as a family go back once or twice a year to see my parents. My father passed away about two years ago. And that was, yeah, it was, it was a big kind of he kept his sense of humour. He struggled with cancer for five years but kept a sense of humour to the last day. He was, he was a, you know, it was a big event. And it again changes your perspective and values of what's important. Seeing, seeing that situation. So, yes, again, back to making the most of it with my kids enjoying what I have now. And appreciating it, I think is more.

Tyrone Shum   

Although his father struggled for a long time through an illness, Ishak is grateful that he was able to spend time with him.

Amir Ishak   

[00:20:46]  I went he, his last days I was there. So I did manage? That was I think in 2019 2019. So yes, I did spend good time with him. Lots of good memories. You know, like I said he had his sense of humour till the end.

Tyrone Shum   

[00:21:09] In five years time, where do you see yourself? And what are you excited about in the next five years?

Amir Ishak   

[00:21:15] I've just been nominated as property tax accountant of the Year for the Australian accountancy awards. So, you know, as a finalist, hopefully, that comes through. So lots of going on, but you know, the business is growing, my family's enjoying. It's kind of things are falling into place, and there'll be hiccups. I understand that there are always hiccups, but it's just going past them. And then yes, and the persistence and resilience. And there'll be ups there’ll be downs life goes on. And it's just enjoying making the most of it as you go along.

Tyrone Shum   

[21:56]  You've shared a really great journey and a lot of success that you've achieved as well along your property, and also his career journey as well, too. How much do you think is because of hard work, your skill and intelligence? Or, you know, you're smart and great, or How much do you think that has been attributed towards your luck?

Amir Ishak    

[00:22:22] I think it's a combination of everything. Like if you don't work hard, yes, you may win the lottery. But again, you have to buy a ticket to win the lottery. Chances are, you're not gonna win it. But again, it's the kind of balance I think, which is key. So it's working hard. Working smart. I think. I think working smart is more important than working hard, working smart and having the right network, having the right people around you. It's a combination of things, which, again, things start falling into place at the right time. So yes, we work towards them. But again, it's the surroundings have a role as well. 

Thank you to Amir Ishak, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.