Building a Property Investing business while working a 9 to 5 with Andrew Hew

Building a Property Business with Andrew Hew.

[00:00:00] Hey guys, this is Carlo here from the Business Launch Podcast. I am here with a good friend of mine, Mr. Andrew Hugh. He is been, I've known Andrew for at least good 20 plus years. Is that right, Andrew? Yeah. Maybe 20 years, man.

[00:00:16] Yeah. It's been 20 years. So Andrew was originally in the late nineties, early two thousands. We were in the same, we started a master mastermind group together. We, um, We were into

[00:00:32] building businesses and he was doing his own thing. I was doing my own thing. And then we, we met up once, once a week out at, um, Homebush and just, um, pick each other's brains, help each other out.

[00:00:44] So, but, um, it's, Andrew actually works a, a nine to five, I guess, job as a, as a ba as a business analyst. Is that right? And, um, and, uh, product manager. Product manager. He's a more of product manager. And, um, and he's, what's great about Andrew, [00:01:00] he's built, uh, uh, really big property portfolio as well, and he's done really well in the last 15 years, I'd say.

[00:01:07] He's built that, that business. Yeah. And, um, yeah, it's, it's been, it's good to finally talk to Andrew, how you doing?

[00:01:17] I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Uh, it's been too long, man. Really? It's been too long. Catching up off offline here saying how much we, we, we need to catch up. And, um, covid, like we're saying, how Covid has basically time's gone, gone on, but Covid kind of put a pause on everybody's lives and now we're kinda like, everybody's coming outta their covid.

[00:01:37] Hell, I guess. And, and finally just getting into our stride again. . Yeah, that's right. So, um, tell us about yourself, Andrew. Where, where did you grow up and, um, what you do? Like where did you study as well? You know, like uni and stuff? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Um, uh, look, I, I, I was actually born in Malaysia. Um, I, I, uh, for a very, uh, short time I was there like, I think I was until I was like [00:02:00] nine years old or something like that.

[00:02:01] Um, I went to primary school, a little bit of primary school there. Then I, um, I moved. Uh, uh, Australia with my family. Um, so we were pretty, we weren't like, uh, poor or anything. We were pretty like middle class, um, not, uh, didn't too do too bad for ourselves. Um, when I first moved to Australia here in Sydney, um, I went to, I don't know if people know where things are in, in Sydney, but we lived in Penrith, which is out really West , the R the Rift.

[00:02:25] They say the . Um, and I, I went to, uh, primary school and high school there. Um, met a lot of people that still keep in contact with from, uh, Penrith High School, um, when I was there as well. Um, and then, um, we moved again to. Strathfield the Strathfield area that's here in Sydney. And then, um, I went to high school there as well, um, at Homebush.

[00:02:48] And, um, I still network with, uh, with a lot of people and, and kept good contacts there with, with people that I, um, have known for a very, very long time. So I, I, I seem to have a very, like, uh, I know who, who to connect [00:03:00] with and, and who to, to keep in contact with because, uh, I, I, I had, I love to have like, long lasting friendships.

[00:03:04] So that's, they, they've lasted for a very, very long time, even in uni. Um, I went to University of Sydney. Um, Didn't know really what I was getting into there, or I started off doing like a double double degree computer engineering, computer science. Um, and then I quickly figured out after the first year that I hated engineering, it was, it was too much maths

[00:03:27] it was actually a lot of the physics and, and stuff that, that put me off. So I decided to drop the engineering bit and just concentrate actually in, um, in the science part. And actually at the time it was very new. Um, it was information systems, which is, uh, was a new degree. So basically that's, that's what got me into, um, doing business analysis and product management in the first place.

[00:03:46] So, um, kinda like thankful for that route that I took through uni. Um, I applied a lot of that knowledge through what I do. Um, now it's more about the love for learning and, and loving what you do and, and, um, Just keeping up to speed with all the latest, uh, you know, [00:04:00] information Yes. In that space. So, yeah.

[00:04:05] in terms of, uh, life, life path and where it kind of took me, um, after uni, I, I went out in the work, uh, in the workforce for a while. Um, got in a bit of debt, , uh, paid it all. Like a lot of people do. Yeah. when you, when you first, when you first get in there, you're getting money. You're like, oh, wow, I've got a lot of money and now I'm gonna, And I don't have any more money, so I'm gonna get credit card and I'm gonna spend all that too.

[00:04:28] Yes. So yeah, one of, um, I quickly found out, you know, that's probably not the way to go. Um, and started getting, getting my, um, house in order, so to speak, in terms of finances and like, So, yeah, that, that was a, a very big learning curve for me. Um, on top of that was the business. You mentioned businesses.

[00:04:43] Yeah. You know, I, I dabbled in a few businesses here and there. I actually took some time off work to see whether I could actually, uh, run my own business. It ends up being that, that's not for me either. It's better to, to know young rather than you're 70 years [00:05:00] old. That's it. Yeah, that was the idea. Give it a go.

[00:05:02] Uh, I gave it a red hot go. Um, my now wife, she said, she pulled me up on it. She's like, well, you gave it a red hot go. It's been three years, mate. You need to go back. You need to make some money. And then after that, you. You went off to uk, right? That's right. So, um, which I, I, it was, I'm glad that we did that.

[00:05:22] Actually. It was at one of the, just after the gfc we went to the uk, which was actually quite a still trying time for, for people. Um, cuz there weren't that many jobs out there, you know, I was like sacrificing a job that I already had here and, you know, the security of all that. And actually, um, I forgot to mention I started my, uh, property investment journey earlier on, um, that time, um, before moving to the uk.

[00:05:45] Nice. I bought a place in Stratfield, I wish I still had it, but , I bought a place there, um, was renting it out and I decided, you know what I wanna have like. Uh, commitments here in Australia that I, I, I, I can, um, get bogged down with. So I actually sold the place that I had That's before you left. Before you left.

[00:05:59] Yeah.[00:06:00] I, I actually made a loss by selling that and if I hang up, hang on to that one. That would've probably been triple or quadruple the price that it, that I brought it out. It'll been a few million, few million right now, right? Yeah, I'm, and paid off as well. . That's it. But, you know, um, so life is full of like give and take, right?

[00:06:19] So given up that, that's fine. Um, uh, but I took advantage of the fact that we're in uk, got a good job there that, um, Uh, allowed me to, uh, still live a comfortable life and be able to travel. That was the one main thing that we wanted to do. My wife and I were there travel and we just went hard at traveling.

[00:06:38] We, we traveled everywhere. Um, I think there was one year we were there literally every weekend. We we're at some different location. We weren't in London. We lived in London, but in the weekend we, we lived in Paris, or we lived in, um, Athens, or we were at, uh, wherever, uh, Austria somewhere, or we've been to Iceland, we've been to Norway.

[00:06:58] Um, you know, wherever it's, it's been, it was [00:07:00] amazing. It's just um, such an eye-opening experience, one being able to see different cultures and, um, their way of life there. Um, cuz it's so hard for us in Australia to be able to travel there. Yeah, that's true. So, and get to kind of really immerse yourself in.

[00:07:14] In the way of life. Uh, you normally go and hit up like all the tourist hotspots and stuff like that, but when you've been to Paris that many times, you, you, you tend to forget about the, the touristy things then That's right. Just kinda go and I just wanna go out into the coffee shop and just experience what it's like.

[00:07:30] Just sit there and, um, watch life go by. Yeah. And, and see what it's like to be a real Parisian. Yeah. So that was nice being able to experience all of that. Yeah. So, um, we spent some time over there and then, um, decided to come back to Australia. We got married in that, in that time. Yes. Um, I was in that, I was in your wedding

[00:07:47] Yes, that's right. Um, so it's crazy. We, we, we arranged the, the wedding and everything from overseas, came back, got married, went back to the uk, came back again afterwards. It was a, it's, it was a very, very, um, a carefree time in [00:08:00] our lives. And yeah. Came back to Sydney and that's when my property investment journey started.

[00:08:05] Um, for real, where I, I wanted to get serious with like, you know, um, uh, investing in property and building off of portfolio. So from that time onwards, um, until now, um, I've been investing. So I was like 2012 ish. Um, yeah. And then, um, uh, from there until now, um, basically then investing in property, but also, you know, working a nine to five job.

[00:08:23] Um, uh, most people see business as like a way to, to get out of the rat race. Um, and they think, oh, I have to be in business, but I'm not, I'm, I'm , I'm in a nine, five job as well. Right, . That's true. Yeah. So let's, let's back up a little. Um, sure. So you came back to Australia, um, you've already started, you sold your property, the Stratfield property, you came back.

[00:08:52] Yep. You, you had a plan already coming back, is that right? To have to start investing in property? Yeah, that's right. We, we, uh, my [00:09:00] wife and I spoke about it. Um, I, um, that's an name and, um, we, you know, we said, all right, we'll get back. We want to, um, find some good people to help us build it up a portfolio.

[00:09:10] Um, and we'll, we'll start. Looking for property to purchase. We didn't have much savings, to be honest. We, we just had, you know, um, this was great. A little bit, a little bit that we, we, we could have, um, from, from our, um, stay over in the uk. Cause most of the money, to be honest, or most of the money we had, we was spent in traveling.

[00:09:28] again, it's like, you know, um, you, you pros and cons, right? So you've given up the, um, the stuff that you, you want in the future, but you've got the experience that you want to experience now. So that's, that's right. We gave up, but we were conscious making, conscious decision of doing that. Yeah. So, yeah, you came back, you guys finished your stint at uk, came back with, I guess with a little bit of savings.

[00:09:50] Is that right? Or, yeah, that's right. And then you, yeah. A little bit of savings. You decided to put a team together, I guess, or like people to, yeah. And [00:10:00] what was the strategy with that, with, um, your property investing? Yeah. So, um, for the very, very first purchase was, was more like just for our own sake, right?

[00:10:09] Because it's our own, um, personal, uh, principle property. So that, because it was a very personal thing, we did it ourselves. We went, looked around, looked for an area. The most important thing for us was just like not having, not, not overbuying, um, cause that initial purchase could be detri very detrimental to our, um, our future, like our future choices, right?

[00:10:36] Yeah. So we looked at what was, uh, you know, what was our, um, main, uh, factors and requirements for a property. And, um, we decided we didn't want a, a big house because, uh, we didn't need one. Basically, I think most people here and in the US and, and um, most of the western world, they're like, oh, you have to own a house.

[00:10:56] You know, you have to own a big, big house there with a yard. And, and we were like, [00:11:00] we're very, we're like, well no, if you have a house that means, uh, if you've got a five bedroom house, there's only two of us. You're literally gonna only be living in one bedroom. You're paying for the other four and probably extra bathrooms and whatnot as well.

[00:11:16] Yeah. But you're never gonna really be using for a very, very long time. Yeah. So we decided to scale down and only commit to about like, uh, what we could pay in terms of interest, about 30% of our, um, joint income. So, um, that created a limit for our. Uh, spending. Yeah. And then we created a limit to the sizing of, of what we needed, which was, I think we decided two bedroom apartment was like the, the best that, uh, we, the most that we needed at that time.

[00:11:44] Yeah. And then also then created, uh, radius around Sydney, kind of looking around where the best areas were. And so use, using that kind of tactic, we found out, you know, this area here, which at the time was, um, Homebush West, sort of that, that Stratfield area [00:12:00] Yep. Was worked out the best for us. Yeah. And that's where we bought, we bought our first property there.

[00:12:04] Um, and, uh, that, do you still have that property? We still have that, yeah. We still have that property. Um, and so that was our very, very first purchase. And, um, we don't really count that one as like part of our, well, at the time we didn't count it as our. Uh, part of our investment portfolio because it's house.

[00:12:21] We're living there. We're not renting it out to anybody. Right. Yeah. Um, how many, how long next, how long until you decided to buy your second property after that? A few months later. A few months. A few months. Okay. Yeah, a few months later. Um, we, uh, so once we had that, we moved in, um, that's when the, uh, the wheels went into motion for, um, employing a buyer's agent.

[00:12:43] So one, I would rather have somebody that's a bit more experienced, no. Market, property. Market. Yeah. And I'll pay them, um, for their services. That's, that was okay for. and then, um, having a good [00:13:00] accountant, um, uh, which slash I guess our accountant is different. It's like almost like a advisor, like a financial advisor as well.

[00:13:07] Yeah. So, um, it kind of helped us, uh, in that respect too. And, um, the good thing about him is that, um, having him part as part of the team was important because, um, he also was a property investor himself. Nice. And very, very successful one. Yeah. So, um, not only did he know. , um, about the accounting laws, but he was also experienced in, in property investing, so he understood how to structure certain things.

[00:13:32] Yeah, it was terrific. So, um, it's very important for me to have like, at least those two things there. That's a good team to have, having a buyer's agent and a, a great accountant to, to match things up together for you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and like if I was to move, I've been with that account for a very long time, um, now, and he knows my structure, everything.

[00:13:55] And if I, if I was to pick up my, my portfolio and everything now and go to a different account, they'll have. [00:14:00] Belt. Belt 10 has grazed me right now. , like, like what we said before, I'd rather have your grazed than, than no hair, right?

[00:14:11] Yeah. So yeah, your accountant does really good job. So he's actually, yeah, he would've been giving you advice as well. Good areas and what structure? Um, yeah, like, uh, he tries to play quite neutral. Um, so it doesn't give, give, give me advice to, in the respect of, oh, look at this area. It's hot right now. Or anything that, because he leave that up to me to decide.

[00:14:30] Um, but it's more like, uh, you know, who do I put onto the, um, uh, the deed if, uh, if I, I was purchased because there's tax structures around that kinda stuff. Um, uh, when, when would we need to like incorporate a, a business, say, perhaps to, to then start. Putting on the title instead instead of our own personal names, things like that.

[00:14:45] Yeah. Um, just little things to be aware of. And then like, um, uh, aside from all of that is also, um, uh, I'm also in control of, of my, um, uh, in, in Australia we've got something called, um, the superannuation, which is your own, like a, uh, I dunno what they four? Is it 401k? 401k to the us? Yeah. [00:15:00] Yeah. Um, so that's the, you know, uh, the money there.

[00:15:03] We've also, uh, put into our own, um, self-managed one, so we can actually have a, we've got a separate entity looking after, um, investment, property investment for that as well. Nice. So we've got all that set up. Um, so we're, um, heavily into property in, in, in terms of all aspects of our, um, in, in investments.

[00:15:22] Yeah. So, um, yeah. Next, next, next purchase after. Yeah. Um, Now going back, uh, next purchase was actually a property in, um, I believe it was Port Macquarie. Um, so you went, you went out now? Yeah. Went out. That's right. And, and all the properties are all, all these, what I'm telling you right now, I, I actually haven't sold any of them.

[00:15:43] So they're, they're still there. Um, and so bought, we bought that one, rented it out, and it just kept on rolling. So the, the strategic plan that we had was, um, some of 'em were, uh, just purely based on, um, cash flow. Yeah. Positive cash flow. Yep, yep, yep. So like we're talking about buying a, [00:16:00] a house for like 120 K, but then renting it out for like $300 a week.

[00:16:05] Wow. So we were talking like quite positive cash flow. Yeah. Um, and even there's some that are even more than that, but. The areas that you bought where the cash flow is good, the drawback sometimes is the capital gains isn't great. Yeah. Which doesn't help your, um, capacity property building. Right. So we had to purchase ones that, uh, initially that had good capital, um, uh, to take out cuz we were using the, the capital immediate gains to actually, um, uh, get the equity out to then roll on to other, other investments.

[00:16:40] Nice. So, um, we were very lucky because, um, uh, I didn't, I'm I on, I, I don't, I didn't have the foresight myself, but, um, I think we're lucky enough to come in at a time in the cycle, uh, in Sydney where it was optimal to purchase. So, um, right now, if you look like [00:17:00] 10. Right now is two, yeah. 23. The 10 year cycle, they normally talk about 10 year cycles, seven to 10 year cycles where property costs double, double.

[00:17:08] Yep. Yeah, it's, it's not even more than that, but, um, yeah, where we came in at the right time and now is actually the start of another cycle. Yeah. The, um, if, if you think about it because, um, interest rates are high and, uh, cash, uh, is king at the moment because That's right. Um, and so if you are cashed up and waiting and ready, you can actually when, um, be, be in a position to purchase something at probably a, a steel.

[00:17:33] I say that as a, because, you know, um, property prices here in, in, um, in Sydney are still quite high, but, uh, it's ridiculously high. Some, some areas are, are, are coming down a bit. Um, and so, um, Uh, I think you just waiting for the pressure to build in certain areas so that, you know, you might have a fire sale and if you had cash you could, you could be ready to jump on it.

[00:17:50] Yeah. And that's essentially what happened with a, a lot of the purchase that we had. Somebody, um, uh, had a contract. One our places that I think we bought it in, uh, in Kingswood. Um, Kingswood [00:18:00] had Penworth area. Yep, that's right. They were, they had a contract ready to go. Um, but they, it fell through because the buyer had cold feet, they discounted that price of that property, a hundred grand, and I just jumped on that one and I could have literally sold that property just the next day for a hundred grand more if I really wanted to , but I didn't, I still hold onto that one.

[00:18:26] Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it's like, it's um, I think if I was to describe it, , it's, the strategy was to have a, a good mixture of, uh, positive cash flow and also, um, ones that had good capital, uh, gain to help with the, uh, portfolio building. Nice. The base, the base portfolio that you have is, uh, very, very important. So it was 2012 you started, did you say?

[00:18:52] Oh, yes. Around, roughly around that, yeah. In earnest, uh, I would say 2012. Yeah, 2012. So 10 years. Now let's discount the, the [00:19:00] STR one, the Strat should

[00:19:05] So, but you started building this current portfolio in 2012. Now we're in 2023. Yeah. How many properties do you have now in that, um, in that lifes span? You don't even know . Um, I'm trying to calculate, cause I've got, I've got a piece of land that I'm trying to split as well at the moment, but that's, I think if we count all up, I think it would be about 12.

[00:19:27] 12, 13. Yeah. And you haven't sold any yet? Um, now I've sold one. Um, but it was part of like a big, uh, block sale, so it was part of a block of units. Yeah. Um, and it was up in the central coast as well, so I sold that one. Um, and we made, uh, triple what we, what we . That was, that was a really, that was a really, really good, um, sale for us.

[00:19:52] Was it an apartment at the time or is it an apartment? Yes. Yeah, it was just an apartment. Yeah. Um, an apartment. and [00:20:00] Yeah, it, it was, it, it, I like, I I'll describe it as the crappiest apartment in the best area.

[00:20:09] Is it Gosford? Was it Gosford? No, it was actually Terigal. Nice. Yeah. Terrible. Which is, uh, uh, for everybody. It's a coastal town. It's not, it's about one and a half hours out of, um, Sydney. So it was a, um, and it's now known for like having quite, uh, luxury apartments and, uh, luxury lifestyle over there.

[00:20:27] Yeah. But yeah, I, I had like the worst unit in, in that luxury area. Yeah. It's um, if you can make three times the money that you put in, it's, you can't go wrong with that. It's, that's right. Sometimes it's all about the, the location. Right. So in starting your property portfolio or your property business, what was the big wins at the start?

[00:20:50] For you, what were the big wins? Um, yeah, look, the big, big wins for me, probably. Um, just [00:21:00] I think the education that I, I got from just starting the ball rolling. Um, that to me it was invaluable. Like that, that life experience and being able to get that, um, that information, um, and having, having that sort of assistance from, uh, my team, that was a big win.

[00:21:19] Yeah, that was like without, uh, like I still have. That core team today? Yeah. Buyer agent and your, yeah. . Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I, I switched out by his agents, but I still have contacts. Like it's, uh, I don't, I don't have the same buyer agent that I had before, but, uh, just understanding what that core team and what matters most.

[00:21:38] Yeah. That was, that was a big win. Um, and also coming to the realization that, you know, uh, what we were saying before is that, um, life's path is, um, is it, it's different for everybody, right? So the big win for me was understanding that hey, business is not just like starting a business, uh, starting like a, a bricks and mortar business or even an online business, right?[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] It takes different shapes and sizes and, and can. Uh, it's a, what I was talking about before as well with the offline was like, it's a means to an end. Yeah. And the end, end goal, what it's like understanding that was also a very big win for me is that, you know, um, it's important to, to realize what your capabilities are, what your strengths and weaknesses are, and then, and then take, take advantage of it

[00:22:22] Yeah. Yeah. So that was a very big win for me to understand that, you know, I'm, I'm good at what I, what I do. I'm good at my, my nine to five job. I'm really good at it. Yeah. So why, why would I give that up? Right. That's true. Yeah. So, um, in still doing your nine to five job had big winds at the start because you went from one property to a.

[00:22:45] To like, in the first few years, I think I saw you, I saw an article of you. I was like, is that Andrew ? I saw you, you were featured in one of the news. Was it newspapers here in daily? Was it Sydney Morning Herald or [00:23:00] something like that? Yeah, I was in Daily Telegraph. Daily Telegraph. I was like, Hey, this Andrew.

[00:23:04] He's like, what? He's got this much properties . Yeah. And um, yeah. So during that time, what was, did you, on, on the flip side, did you have any, any doubts that you were gonna, like, you might have bitten more than you could chew? Oh yeah, there was, there were certain times when, um, you know, I was burnt by like, Uh, tenants leaving the house in a mess or, um, not being able to claim insurance for certain things.

[00:23:32] So, um, just there was a steep learning curve, , and, and there was, um, like if I had known those pitfalls, uh, earlier, I would've done things to mitigate that. But such as life, right? Like, um, uh, if, if I kind of, if I doubted all of that and, and didn't even move, I wouldn't be where I am right now. Yeah. So it was a learning experience.

[00:23:53] Yeah, it was a learning experience. Yeah. Sure. It, it, it was painful. Um, and that's the ones where money is involved is [00:24:00] there's a lot of pain. Yeah. . But those are the ones that you will remember for a very, very long time. , it's, uh, it's the painful lessons that stick to you forever that. Yeah. Shapes you as a person as well.

[00:24:14] Yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, even, even like I talked about the, the, the Terigal sale, um, just then, but like we had to go to court. Uh, there was a few things, uh, there that, that happened that didn't go our way and, um, uh, ended up being like a, a dodgy agent, dodgy conveyancer, like all sorts of dodginess happening there, that, um, uh, I say we, because there's a group of us, a group of owners that, uh, were part of that wholesale and we all went through a very steep learning curve.

[00:24:40] And, um, you know, we're now hyper aware of how badly things can go wrong with, uh, with, uh, a sale over a apartment block. Yeah. So, um, but we, you know, we're, we came out at the end of that, um, Pretty in, in, in a good position, but there was a lot of learnings that we, we can take away from that. Yeah. That is awesome.

[00:24:56] Yeah, that's great. I think the, the, the, the one thing that I think, um, [00:25:00] is a blessing to me is that none, none of those were detrimental to like, um, my life path that I'm, I'm going in right now. Um, like there was no like massive, huge financial hit or anything like that. Yeah. Um, where it just stopped me dead in my tracks so I couldn't go any further.

[00:25:17] Right. Yeah. So that, that was a blessing. Um, um, I think as all, as well as that, it's because of the strategy that I had where, um, um, I, I describe it as this, like you could, you could buy a million dollar property, right? And sit on it for 10 years and they'll double in price, let's just say, and it'll be 2 million.

[00:25:33] but that's a massive risk because it's one property, . So we decided to go small. Right. Imagine like, just, this is a really hypothetical cause they're not all the same, but imagine if you split it up into a hundred thousand dollars investments instead and there were 10 $100,000 investments. Yeah. If any one of them went bust, it'll be o it'll be relatively Okay.

[00:25:55] Because you still got the other nine. Yeah. Right. . So your eggs [00:26:00] were not in one basket. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's spread out. And that was done on purpose because of that. Yeah. Wow. It's, uh, it's a great way to, to start investing knowing that you are not throwing, because nowadays here in Sydney, if you wanna buy your principal property that you want to live in, it's million dollar property.

[00:26:24] Right. Right from the get go. Yeah. And it's probably not gonna be the best one either. Yeah, that's right. You're gonna have to do renovations and all that kind of stuff, which is another, you know, cost on top of all that. So it's pretty crazy. Right. ? It's, it's, we're living in crazy times here in Australia.

[00:26:38] Uh, I say Australia because property prices here as you, you'd have some in other states too, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, I do have some in Queensland in another state and also in Western Australia, so it's state there. Yeah. It's, it's kinda all, all around. Yeah. But where the property growth are. Yeah.

[00:26:57] Um, as a property investor, what, what [00:27:00] makes you stand out from, from other investors? Um, I think I'm probably. Just based on the portfolio and what I've got, I, I, I would say I'm at the maybe one or 2% of Australians that are in this position. Yeah, there's not that many. Um, and it's because of the, the strategy that I had, it's not putting all your eggs into one market.

[00:27:28] It sounds really simple, but like people are very tempted to, um, and they, they also have the, this sort of attachment with the, um, the physical look of a place, and they want it to be perfect and, you know, they pay extra for that kind of stuff. I literally didn't, um, I think any of my investments, I never even set foot next to that thing.

[00:27:48] I never had like, a personal attachment to it. Yeah. In fact, um, so it was like a business transaction? Yeah. It was literally a business transaction. So I treated it that way. I, I never had a personal attachment to it. Um, only [00:28:00] very recently had, uh, had I actually visited one. Uh, and another one actually, um, so one in the Port Macquarie won the very first one that I told you about.

[00:28:06] Yeah. That one we've now, um, decided we've, we've converted it over to a, um, a, a holiday rental. Nice. Um, like an took advantage of I kinda like that. Yeah. Yeah. So like, uh, we took advantage of like, I think everyone going crazy over, um, holidays, right? Uh, after Covid and we're brought, you know what? I think for a time, the time being we wanna take advantage of it, but also wanna give other people opportunities to live in, um, and, and experience that as well.

[00:28:31] So we'll convert it out to a holiday rental. Um, and that's when we actually set foot in that place. . When you decided to change the strategy with the actual place itself? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you guys, we wouldn't have even gone there. did I know that? all, pretty much all the businesses I've spoken to. Cuz you are, you're in a different sort of category because you're more an investor.

[00:28:58] Um, did you [00:29:00] get hit by Covid as well with any of your properties or you financially No, it was, it was really resilient because the prop prop property, um, and oh, this is the, this is the coolest thing. So property, um, you know, rental, uh, itself. Some of 'em, like, I mean, one or two, we took like a minor dip in the rental, um, uh, the weekly rental, but most of them were really resilient.

[00:29:26] They, they just remained the same. Um, we didn't up it because, Normally I would, I would increase, uh, rental prices every now and then, just depending on the market. But we didn't up those ones because of the Covid situation. Um, uh, but the decision to change the Port Macquarie one into a , uh, a holiday rental that occurred during Covid.

[00:29:47] Now, I was a little bit skeptical. I was a little bit hesitant of doing that because I was thinking, oh my gosh, who the hell is gonna rent out this place when people can't even travel? Like we were at the time, we, we, I couldn't even [00:30:00] travel outside of Sydney, like outside of our, my own politan area, um, because of the heavy restrictions we had here in Sydney.

[00:30:07] Yeah, that's right. Um, but um, we still, cause that was second, the second wave, the second lockdown, right? Yeah. So we decided to do it after the first lockdown, converted it out. The second lockdown happened and we were like, oh my gosh, what have we done? We've, I've literally, like, I, I could have rented it out to somebody full-time, but instead we've turned it into it, into a holiday rental.

[00:30:30] What have I done here? Who's gonna holiday there? . But, um, I was nicely surprised. There were still people like outside of Sydney anyway, they were still traveling and they wanted to go into those areas. So, um, uh, after all costs, it ended up being the same as what I would've been getting with like a, a consistent, um, or a long, long term rental.

[00:30:46] Yeah. So actually I didn't take a financial hit at all. Wow. Um, I was, I was really impressed. I was like, wow, people were still to go and holiday. That's good. Do you, do you get that rented consistently now? Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:00] It's pretty consistent and it's actually higher, um, higher yield than yield. Yeah. Than what I would get with, uh, normal.

[00:31:05] Um, Uh, normal long-term rental. Um, the other thing is that because it's a holiday rental, I can also go there and use it whenever I want , which was, which was actually, um, my, uh, one of the driving forces for us was that, um, we wanted a place that we can go to, to take the kids, um, the family for a holiday.

[00:31:23] Um, we spent a lot of money , you know, on traveling and, and stuff like that. So, um, that's the, the rental of a a property is the biggest cost of, of doing that. So we can take that out and we travel there. Then hey, you know, we, we've got, um, We don't have to have money out of our pocket, so to speak. Yeah. It's, uh, accommodations cost a lot.

[00:31:41] So it's, uh, one thing that Yeah, that comes, that helps when you actually own the actual accommodation, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So now we've got, actually we've, um, we've converted two of our properties into holiday rentals. Um, just knowing the market and then, um, being able to then utilize it for our own purposes too.[00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Yeah, it's, it's great. You can actually go to different strategies with properties who would've known that it's not just a buy and rent. You can actually change, change up the way you, your business model, I guess It's your business model. That's right. Yeah, that's right. It's, uh, I own it, right? I, I get, I get to do with it what I want.

[00:32:18] Yeah. So that's the, the beauty of it and the freedom that, that we get from, um, having those properties under our belt. Yeah, it's, it's blows my mind with, um, with property. So what motivates you daily, Andrew? What motivates me daily? Um, yeah, this is a good one because, um, my, my family, my children, um, they're a big motivation for me, you know?

[00:32:42] Um, I, I wanna set like a, a really good example for my, my three boys, you know, that, that anything you put your mind to, you can do it. Um, I, that's actually why I've, I took up, you know, other hobbies like, um, endurance, um, endurance sports, uh, triathlons and that [00:33:00] because just to show that, hey, . You can do anythings.

[00:33:04] You can do anything that you want. You just gotta, you just gotta commit. You gotta commit. And you don't have to do a lot, you don't have to do a lot. You just have to do a little bit every day. Yeah. You know, little incremental. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. It's not, um, uh, I don't, I know this, this like, um, this hustle culture, which I don't quite like, because it's all about like, go, go, go.

[00:33:21] Every day has to be a hundred percent. You gotta give it a hundred percent every day, you know? But it's not like that. Right? It's, it's just the little, the little bits that you, you do every day, um, consistently that matter. Yeah. Yes. I love it. I love it. I love the, the mindset behind that. It's just, um, you can do it in your everyday life or in any, anything you wanna concentrate your, your.

[00:33:45] Your business or your, your health, your finances. Yes. Little incremental. Just a little bit. Yes, just a little bit. Um, it's, it's probably the same thing for, I mean, like, a lot of people have profited, um, greatly as well from, uh, big lifestyle [00:34:00] changes and big, you know, big, uh, momentary shifts in, in, uh, in promoting that, right?

[00:34:04] Like, oh, you know, lose weight in 30 days or like gain 30 properties in 30, 30 days or something. . But, um, you know, it's, it's that, that's shock. Oh yeah, yeah. We can do it. We can do it. Um, but will you be able to maintain that? Will you be able to like, keep it. Yeah. Uh, I, I would highly doubt that if you, if you lost weight that much weight in 30 days, you would probably gain most of it back the next, in the next 30 days after that when, when the program ends, right?

[00:34:29] So it's not like, uh, uh, it's not a consistent outcome that you want. So it's just being able to like, show my boys, like, I think that's what drives me. Just showing my family, um, my, especially my kids, uh, what, what, um, what people are capable of doing and how if they set their mind to it and just practice a little bit.

[00:34:46] Do a little bit every day. Yeah. You can get good at what at that thing, right? Yeah. Great principle to have, especially for all our kids, all those parents who are actually trying to teach their kids. You just gotta [00:35:00] be like in basketball terms. What I teach my kids is you don't have to be great all at once.

[00:35:07] You improve your ball handling. Incrementally where you're shooting, by the time one year finishes your, you're not what? A hundred percent, you're actually a bigger, a bigger improvement in your, the way you play basketball. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's kind of like that 1%, but 1% on top of all 1% is, is a compounding thing.

[00:35:30] Right. That's, that's right. So it's like a, it, it's, you don't realize it, but slowly, slowly, you'll, you'll get there. Yeah. And people will also get persuaded because it's not like, are they looking for major improvements right now? But like, you just gotta stick at it and just keep it, keep it constant and keep going.

[00:35:44] And then you might not realize that, but one year later you look. This is why sometimes, um, I encourage people to like, um, just jot down, you know, things, um, write down a journal maybe across 30 days just to get used to the fact that things can change incrementally. Yeah. And then you look back at it, you're like, [00:36:00] whoa, really?

[00:36:01] I was there. That's amazing. Right. But it's only in retrospect, it's only in retrospect that you get that. Yeah. It's having the habits, changing habits, that's what you do by building the incrementals as you break down to get better habits. Yeah. Yeah. Um, who are your influences growing up and in life and in business?

[00:36:26] Yeah. Um, obviously my, my parents were, were a great influence on me. They always spouted, you know, property and property investment. Although with that said, they weren't great property, property invest investors themselves. Cause they made a lot of mistakes. Right. Um, I mean like really big mistakes. , you know, the ones where I said before about like how if you make a mistake and it's detrimental to your entire portfolio sometimes.

[00:36:48] Yeah. And how that didn't happen to me, that happened to my parents because they had the property of Stratfield, right? They had, yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, they, well they had a few, but, um, they just made mistakes [00:37:00] and, um, they didn't have the right team. They didn't have the right people to listen to all that.

[00:37:04] Um, but they were still influencers in my life. Um, and I learned from their mistakes, right? , what not to do. So, um, it's kinda, it, it like, there, there have been a big driving force for me and, um, certain key people, um, in my life, in uh, networks, in my life that, um, Have been, uh, very close with me and I've been able to bounce ideas off with them.

[00:37:27] Um, uh, not just about in property investing, right. But, um, there's other, like, I have friends that I can bounce property investment ideas, uh, with, but I have other ones that I like in the professional, uh, professional career, I can actually bounce ideas off them as well about certain things. So, um, I have, it's strange, I have like little niches and, and I, I know who to who, who to contact to, to some feedback on.

[00:37:48] Yeah, I think that's, yeah, it's great to have network to, um, go to your, go-to people building a network that's, that will help you or like that you can help as well. [00:38:00] Yeah, that's right. Um, even like when it comes to, to my own health and personal health and my goals with, um, training and stuff like that. . I have people I can go to that I can talk to about that kind of stuff.

[00:38:11] Yeah. So it's something that, that's really important that I've learned is that having, like, just through property investment, you go, all right, you need a team of people there that help you with that. Well, it's because they, they've had the experience and the knowledge and they can share that with you and they can help you through certain, um, tough times as well.

[00:38:30] Same thing with, um, your other aspects of your life. Yeah. It's important to have people that you can, uh, be sound, can be sounding boards or have ex have experience and gone through that and, um, you can learn from their, um, wisdom. Yeah. That is, that is awesome. Shout out to your parents and to all the parents out there.

[00:38:49] That's right. Who are, who help their, their kids to get to where they are at the moment, um, moving forward. , what big goals do you [00:39:00] have for your property investing business in let's say three to 10 years? Yeah, I love this one cause, uh, I got big plans, , . Um, well first of all, I think, um, like I was saying, right, property investment is, uh, is a means to an end.

[00:39:15] So like, what is that in having that in mind is very important, right? So you're like, alright, what, what is the purpose of all of this? Where do you, where do you wanna be? Where do you want to, what do you wanna do? And how much money do you need to do that thing? Because Mo like, we like to say, oh, you know, money isn't everything, but it does help, right?

[00:39:34] It definitely helps. It makes things easier. Um, so for me, um, I actually want to be in a position to retire by the time I'm 50. That's not long. Uh, Hey, we're the same age. You see, you, you, you can see from my gray hairs that I, it's not long, right? , . Hey, you're not, you're, you're still a bit, there's still a bit of time there, Andrew.

[00:39:53] Andrew. We're the same age

[00:39:59] [00:40:00] but it's coming along. It's coming along. It is coming. It's coming. Uh, time doesn't stop, man. . But, um, yeah. So, uh, I'll wanna be in a position to, um, uh, retire by the time I'm 50. And the, I choose my words very carefully. It's the, in a position to retire. That's, it Doesn't mean that I'm gonna just drop everything I'm doing right now and, and that's it.

[00:40:20] Yeah. Um, what that would mean for me is that I get to, um, choose like where I wanna work or what, what, what, like, what, what I wanna do next. Do I wanna, uh, volunteer or do I want to, um, start up my own consultancy and do something else, you know? Um, But I have opportunities then I don't, I'm not tied to my nine to five anymore.

[00:40:38] You could be the touch up dad who goes, um, who knows

[00:40:45] Cause like Yeah, . Yeah. Yeah. But like for, for me, it's, uh, uh, I, I'd like to say, oh, you know, I'll travel the world, but I've actually have traveled already, so it's not like that's a burning desire for me. Um, and in fact, even if I did have the opportunity, I wouldn't be able to, because [00:41:00] I've got my kids and they need to go to school.

[00:41:02] And I tell me it's not, it's not logical, right? It's not, it's not, uh, not physically possible to, to do those things. But yes, it'd be nice to be able to be, um, In control of, uh, choices, uh, in terms of where I wanna work and Yeah. Or what I wanna do. So that's what I mean by in a position to retire. Yeah. Um, choices that you want, that you actually choose to do.

[00:41:25] Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Um, and there's a lot to say that I didn't choose to be in this current role that I'm in right now, my life in my nine to five, but, you know, um, I, if I decided to leave today, that might be detrimental to building my portfolio and, and paying for certain bills and things like that.

[00:41:41] So that's, that I'm trapped, right. I don't, I don't wanna be like that. So that's what I mean. Um, and so yeah, in the next, uh, sort of three to five years, I want to be able to, um, I think my ultimate goal really is to, um, and I've been playing around with the idea of, um, slowly building up, like. , um, meaning [00:42:00] building like, uh, going into building houses and, um, homes and stuff like that.

[00:42:05] And then slowly work my way up to, um, owning like an entire, uh, apartment block. Nice. That's a, that's my, that's my goal there. It's, it's a challenge more, more than anything, but we'll see whether, whether the, the, the numbers and everything, uh, makes sense, but, uh, that's my ultimate goal is to, to get to that stage.

[00:42:21] Nice. But yeah, um, I've got a strategy to kind of build up from, um, uh, doing, um, builds, but now it's like shifting from, um, buying properties that are already built. So like buying something that I can either knock down and rebuild or Yeah, house build myself actual land, that's all. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, uh, doing something with that and getting capital gains and then, uh, rolling it onto the next.

[00:42:44] Project, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's, um, it's a really good goal, goal to achieve when, when you get there and I think you're, you're in the cusp of on, on your way there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I, I, there is a purpose to doing all of that as well, and the, the purpose is [00:43:00] because, um, uh, I'm trying to dial back the amount of, um, leverage that I've had in, um, in terms of loans that I've had to take out.

[00:43:08] So by dialing that down allows me to then, um, take more of the income than I'm getting from the rent. Right? Yeah. So the, um, the idea is to build more capital to then pay that down and be able. Um, uh, not have such a high leverage. Yes, it's already quite low, but, you know, I want it lower. Yeah. , you don't have to pay for it.

[00:43:30] You'll have to, um, do, do its own thing for itself, right? Yeah, that's right. Um, what's top three advice that you have for budding entrepreneurs or property investors? Hmm. Um, that thing I said before, but having a goal in mind, that's really important because it's probably one of the, the best things that I did with my accountant at the time was just working out where you want to be.

[00:43:56] What, what is it in 10 years time, in 20 years time, or whatever it is, whatever that end goal [00:44:00] is in a, you know, with it's short, medium, long term. Having that in in mind then gives you something to aim towards and gives you, uh, then. , you can work backwards from there. It's almost like backwards architecting what you need to do.

[00:44:15] Yeah. Right. So, um, we did this exercise, right? Like, alright, in 10 years or in 20 years, we wanna be in this position to um, be able to fully, um, live off the, um, income that we're getting from our rental properties. Alright. What does that mean? What do you mean by fully living off it? How much do you need a year and, and like, oh, I dunno, a hundred thousand, 200,000.

[00:44:36] Well, hang on, what about, do you wanna go on holidays? Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. Uh, you know, maybe that's a $50,000 a year or something like that, you know, so just like being able to work out all of that. Like, how do you cover all your expenses, plus do all the things that you wanna do with your family and then, um, work backwards from that.

[00:44:53] That's, that is probably the best. Advice that I can give anybody [00:45:00] with anything that you do in life, not just in investing too, by the way. Um, I talk a lot about my, um, health side of things. Cause I, I, I'm really passionate about like sports and triathlons and stuff. And the reason why I normally pick a, um, an event or something like that in the future is because it's a goal, right?

[00:45:19] It does. I'm not, I'm not just like, um, uh, training for the hill of it, right? Uh, like I want my, I want something there to aim towards that I can then, um, create a strategy to how I'm gonna get there. Yeah. So, uh, have, having that end goal in mind, uh, gives me the ability to then go right about three months in I'll when start running a lot more my training, swim training program or something like that.

[00:45:46] Having the goal in mind is the number one. Number one. I think it's, uh, it's, it's heavily, um, uh, like it helps a hundred percent with anything that you're doing is just having that goal in mind, being really honest [00:46:00] as well with that goal. Yeah. Um, like, uh, I don't know. You could say, I wanna, I wanna go to the moon , but if you're gonna do that in six months, I'm probably gonna tell you that it may not be possible , unless your friends with Elon Mask, right?

[00:46:13] Yeah. Or something like that. Right. So it has to be, you know, it's, people talk about, you know, those old school sort of smart goals. Yeah. Make it smart. Make it something that's tangible, something that's achievable, something that's realistic, you know. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and don't make like 10 million goals.

[00:46:28] Just, you know, start with one, just work with one, one particular goal in mind. . It doesn't need to be complex. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a great exercise for people who, who want to get into business or who want to get into property investing, who want get fit. It's the perfect, perfect, um, perfect end goal in mind to have.

[00:46:49] Yeah. Yeah. Because then you'll, you'll be like, I mean, if you look on business, then you're like, all right, well, um, what do I, what's the roadmap for my business establishment look like? Where do I need to start turning a [00:47:00] profit? It's a two year plan, three year plan, a five year plan, you know, um, uh, where do I have to bring in investment?

[00:47:06] If, if that, that's something that I need, um, and how much investment do I need as well? Yeah. It's, it's awesome. It's like, It's, I think a lot of people need to start doing that, especially people who jump into business or jump into investing without any, any plan. Some people jump into business and, and don't tell me that you want money.

[00:47:27] Cause that's just, that's, you know, that's great and all, but, you know, have something, you bit more tangible than, I just wanna make money . It's, um, you can't, you can't go wrong with that. With that advice, Andrew, um, how did you want to impact, um, how do you want to impact the world and what kind of legacy do you want to have?

[00:47:47] Hmm. Um, oh, it's, it's probably more to do with. The impact that I have on the world would probably be more to do with my, uh, passion in, uh, product. And, uh, actually it's like looking now at what I [00:48:00] do, um, uh, in my nine five, uh, I really wanna be able to create awesome products that leave a legacy and leave.

[00:48:09] Um, I guess leave a good feeling in, in, in people's hearts, right? Like, oh man, I remember that, uh, that, you know, remember that app? I remember that thing that we, we used. That was great. Yeah. And like being, being able to be part of that and help grow that, that product and, and, um, sort it from the ground up or be a part of it and consult and help, um, give advice to, to that company.

[00:48:27] That would be great. That's like something that I, I've already had a hand in, in a lot of different applications that, that you, um, people may use, uh, in Australia anyway, um, in their day to day that they may not know about. But I'm like, I know, like, ah, okay, I see you had a hand in that, had a head in that

[00:48:44] Yeah. But let's, uh, you know, has always been a positive impact. It's, it's, that's what I love to do. And, and even, um, I would say after I retire, um, I would love to still be part of doing that. Um, uh, whether it's giving advice or, um, um, being on the board of directors or something like that [00:49:00] for a company that, that's doing good.

[00:49:02] Um, and just leaving an impact that way. Um, and the other legacy obviously is my kids just, uh, being able to make sure that they, they turn out to be good eggs. , that is a, that is a 24 hour a day job. Yes. It's, it's, um, uh, being able to like, you know, going back to what I said before, you know, show, set a good example for them.

[00:49:21] Like the way that my parents have, I want 'em do good by them as well, um, and show them that anything's possible and hope, hopefully they'll, they'll keep. Keep it going on. Yeah. Long after I'm, I'm gone . I, I think, um, I think showing great example to your kids in what you are doing in life and in your business, your properties, and even traveling.

[00:49:44] I see you guys are traveling so much is a little experience. And so, uh, we love to travel. Yeah. We haven't traveled since Covid hit and you guys kept on traveling straight after. So it's, um, it's one thing that we're our family's missing is like [00:50:00] traveling Hawaii's our destination that we love to go to.

[00:50:04] Um, yeah, it's, we haven't done it for a while, but we, we are itching, especially the wife. , . Yeah. A lot of us are. I mean like, uh, one of the other reasons why, um, , um, we converted some of our properties to, to holiday rentals was, we know right now is like, I look at life as seasons. Right? Right now as a season where our kids are still quite young.

[00:50:29] Um, and they wanna, I was telling you like they wanna hang out with dad and mom still. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So that means like we, we have these holiday properties and we can go to them and give them good memories about like, you know, our, our, our time that we spent there, because I know there would be a season where they won't wanna hang out with mom and dad anymore.

[00:50:46] Right. And I'm getting close to that season now. So, and so when that comes around, like we can then think about, you know, alright, what do we do with these properties? Now let, let's, let's just rent it out long term again because it's not worth it. Right? Yeah. We're okay to take a financial [00:51:00] hit now because of that, um, because it, it leaves a lasting memory in their minds when, when, when we can anyway.

[00:51:05] Um, when they're young. and they're, they still think that dad's cool. cool. Dad. I asked that. I asked that to my, um, my 15 year old, Hey guys, too much to elder boys. Am I a cool dad or not? And then dad, sometimes you're cringe. So

[00:51:30] but they, they, you did the litmus test.

[00:51:37] that's what happens when you have teenager boys, you know, it's, um, they're living their life at the moment and, um, they're, they have so many influences outside, like the YouTubes and the TikTok and all that, the, the social media. That's that they're, they're exposed to that, that we weren't exposed to when we were young.

[00:51:57] We were, no, it's [00:52:00] just different. Uh, they have to learn to grow up a lot faster these days. Right? Yeah, that's right. . Um, I know that you read a lot of books. I know that you've read, you've recommended great books to me before. If you had a book to recommend, what would it be and why? Okay. Yeah. Um, uh, if we're talking about just investing in and just business and just, just starting off, right?

[00:52:26] Yeah. I think, I think, um, I go back to my very, very first book that, that kind of got me on the journey of the, uh, things like this. And there was Rich Dad, poor Dad. Yeah, I've been thinking about that. Cause I, I, um, I, funnily enough, in this season of my life, I haven't been able to spend the time to read as much as I wanted to.

[00:52:43] So I act, if you asked me if it was a recent book that I can remember that I read, probably the most recent one would've been like Michelle Obama's book or, um, David Goggins or something like that. Yeah. But that was like, you know, two years, three years ago or something. . But definitely, um, Richad Poor Dad.

[00:52:59] Uh, it, [00:53:00] it's, I know there's stuff in there that's a bit old school, but I think it's, it's still a lot of that still relevant. Yeah. Um, just having that mindset, um, and if for kids. I, I've, I've heard that the, um, the barefoot investor for kids Yeah. Is actually really good. Oh wow. Yeah. So, uh, if you've got children, maybe, um, hit that one up as well.

[00:53:18] Yeah. Um, I, it sort of gets them thinking about, um, money and, and what to do with the money that they have. Um, which is always important because I don't, I think, I really think that schools need to teach more about money management Yeah. In general to people. That's true. Cause it's like we set them up to be money making machines.

[00:53:38] Right. I don't know how to it. Education, but they don't understand what to do with it. Yes. Which is really strange to me. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's two great books to have. I remember one of the books that you recommended to me back in our days, in our mastermind days, master key systems. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I was [00:54:00] just about to go get the book again to read it actually.

[00:54:03] So I was one of my friends who's about to go on the startup. Um, yeah, that was the, that was a book that I thought that, because his business was

[00:54:12] based on similar things in the master key system, so. Right. Ok. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, great books to have. Um, and I think it's, um, I'll put that on the show notes as well, so that people can wanna go pick it up.

[00:54:24] It's their, their, um, can get it in any bookstores that you can. Yeah, yeah. Um, if the listeners need help with, let's say, proper investing or a question that they wanna ask for you, um, how can they reach you? Um, gosh, um, Get me. I mean, like professionally, you can get me on LinkedIn. Nice. Um, , that's, yes. I think we're friends in LinkedIn.

[00:54:47] Yeah. , . Um, uh, otherwise, um, I, I, I can put out my email. Um, I, I've got a couple of different emails, but I can give, give you one that, that they can reach out to. Yeah, let's, let's get them to, in your, um, LinkedIn profile, if [00:55:00] they need any advice sometime or anything, I'll get them to your LinkedIn. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:55:05] I don't like, look, I, I like to say, you know, hit me up on some social media channel, but one I don't go on, um, Instagram or whatever that much, so I don't think you'll get me on any of those. So yeah, probably you won. You won't answer.

[00:55:21] I think you'll be a marketing scam or something like that. . Yeah. So, well, I'll put your, your link of your, um, your. LinkedIn profile on your handles in the show notes as well. If, if there's a, a question there for you after listening to the show. So, Andrew, thank you again for awesome chat. I think it's, it's well overdue for us to catch up and it's, well to actually talk.

[00:55:47] It would've been great if you're sitting next to me and like, um, hopefully I was talking to the wife that will convert this room to a, to a podcast. Podcast room, so hopefully we can have you over and then like, um, [00:56:00] yeah, guess turn fire slides chat or something like that. , you know me sitting next to you.

[00:56:05] Maybe we have a scotch or something like that. Yeah, that's right. . Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, um, I think our kids, um, especially your middle son is the, the same age as my youngest who last time we, they saw each other, they looked exactly like twins. So twins, . So I think it's way overdue. I'm just gonna go, um, organize that and then let's go meet up again because it's definitely way overdue.

[00:56:31] Way, way too long. Yeah. Yeah. It's been nice talking to you, man. Yeah, it's been awesome. It's been great to talk to you again, Andrew. It's New Year, new beginnings and it's like, try trying to build all my great friendships up again. So, and it's now that Covid is. Knock on wood, that, um, slows down and I'm, yeah, I'm able to build my, my close friends again and being able to just, um, see them and finally catch up because it's [00:57:00] been so hard with kids as you know.

[00:57:02] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Thank you again Andrew, and, um, yeah, it's been awesome chat. See you soon. Thanks. Thanks, buddy. Thanks bro. Later.