In this episode, he shares with us how his background in water and engineering landed him a deal on a property that scared the other investors and buyers off! He delves into how both his background and his connections with others enabled him to snatch up such a fabulous investment, displaying how important it is to have relationships with others in the property investing business. In addition, he dishes out some invaluable advice he’s been given and has given to others that has helped him to achieve his goals. He also divulges on the legacy he plans to leave for his children, how that influences the types of investments he purchases, and how important family is to him.

Timestamps:
02:57 | You Can’t Scare Me
06:06 | I Diversified My Eggs
08:25 | The Best Investments
11:54 | Legacy and Loving What You Do
15:45 | Numbers, Numbers, Numbers
20:29 | Good Advice
23:43 | Frugal Flynn
30:45 | You’re Out the Door, Sorry About That

Resources and Links:

Transcript:
Darren Flynn:

[00:33:54] I'm sure there's definitely a component of luck. But as I said, you pave your own way. You follow the signs, you follow your gut. And to do that, you're prepared and if you're prepared and you've done your homework, then really, is it luck? Or have you put in the hard yards to make it so? 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re continuing our discussion with chartered civil engineer Darren Flynn. In this episode we’ll hear about the legacy he is proud to carry on, his money-saving tips for young people, and a priceless story on a bargain he was able to snatch up because it had scared the other investors off!

Tyrone Shum: 

Flynn divulges on the lessons he’s learnt so far in his property investing journey, and how his background in water and engineering came in very handy for a particular property...

Darren Flynn:   

[00:01:28] To be honest, I've been quite fortunate. I still think that I'm on the journey, in terms of property investment. I wouldn't say that I'm out doing deals left, right and centre. I'm probably a bit more measured, and look at alternative investment strategies, not just property. On the alternative investment, I've obviously had some shockers over the years. From, say, geothermal energy companies to picking a penny stock thinking that that was the next big thing, and then that wasn't. Really it's about limiting your exposure and understanding the risk. 

[00:02:12] My reflection on the property investment stuff really is... it's so difficult to pick the time and to pick... people talk about the market, the market obviously is going crazy at the moment, and you go, okay, hindsight, it's a beautiful thing. But you go, ‘Okay, if you might have waited, you might have changed’. But I think sometimes you just have to be happy with what you've set and the plan and the strategy that you had. And upside's upside. If you get your upside, and that's what you planned, then two years later when the market's doubled, you can't go, 'Oh, I wish I did this’, or ‘I wish I did that'. 

 

[00:02:57] There's lots of traps, and tricks, obviously, in buying properties. I do a lot of free inspections for friends looking at different properties to buy as their own home or otherwise, whether it's desktop, or looking at a condition assessment, builder's report, pest inspection, going on site, getting under the house and getting dirty and looking at foundations, and what they look like. I feel I've been relatively fortunate that even with the investments that we've made, that I've had some of that knowledge prior. But there's always something, whether it comes down to maintenance or whatnot. 

[00:03:46] The one thing I will say is that I think the more people that you can tap into to get advice from, if you're on a journey— that is key. I was very lucky with one investment, where there was a very large water asset on the plan, which scared nearly all of the other investors or buyers away. I was lucky enough to have a background in water and engineering. And to see this large structure and know that it was a sort of storage tunnel that was over 40 metres deep, and wouldn't actually impact on the future development potential of the site. 

[00:04:33] And lucky again, I rang up a friend and asked them who I knew worked on that project that could dig out the plans and find that it was this deep, and it wouldn't have any impact on that development. So, again, by virtue of me having a background in engineering, I'm just fortunate that I could look at that and go, 'Oh, no, this won't be a problem. Let's proceed'. It made me ring someone up who I was fortunate enough, again, to know. That network is so critical in making any decision. So I haven't had any complete shockers, luckily. But I've obviously had ones where I've done 'I wish I did this. I wish I did that'. But ultimately, I still did okay.

Flynn shares some lessons he’s learnt in property, beginning with the days he was still doing deals on his rent!

Darren Flynn:  

[00:06:06] Early on, I was always interested in the share market, literally just ASX. One of my good friends was an accountant. He was in finance. And I remember he was trying to push me to get into margin lending, and to buy Commonwealth Bank shares when they floated. I think he's retired now, literally, because he did that. And he went in every three months and just kept margin lending, margin lending, margin lending, until he built up a majority of wealth. 

[00:06:49] I look at that, and I always tell that story, because I was very close, but it just seemed so scary at the time. When you're young, $25,000 is a lot of money. When you're trying to pave your way, when you're at university and doing deals on your rent! So I did get in early though, and I was fortunate enough to buy into a range of investments. And someone told me about diversification. It was always 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket'. And my reflection is that, 'Well, if I had put all of my eggs in one basket, it may have been a very different journey for me'. 

[00:07:34] Some of the ones that I did, I mentioned geothermal, I put some money into a couple of geothermal. Being an engineer and an optimist, thinking 'That's the next big thing'. And obviously it wasn't the next big thing. So that's really just on the shares. There's other other mechanisms with ETFs, and other funds, managed funds. I was looking at those GFC, luckily, I was fortunate enough to exit at the right time. And then there's always trying to look at any other business that you could open, create. Whether or not it's a small business, or a side business, a side hustle, or otherwise. 

[00:08:25] But a lot of these things come down to time. And being a father of three working a full time job, and everything else with life, I always find the best investments are the ones that need minimal attention, or are automated, or just run by themselves. So I've learnt that along my journey. To be honest, they're the ones that— I wouldn't call it set and forget, because no one will forget— but just having the ability to know that you're waking up or you're doing something or you're working on something, but that actually doesn't really matter. Because you've already got your investments working for you.

Tyrone Shum:  

He lets us in on his two very different ‘aha’ moments.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:09:35] There's probably that automated process of an investment that you don't have to buy, sell, buy, sell, monitor, be on a daily. Like, this isn't Bitcoin. Although I was very close on selling Bitcoin... Anyway, long story. I'm not going to dwell on those. But the automation, that really is the 'aha', when you realise that you can make investments that you don't have to have a lot of work to get to the end outcome.

[00:10:13] I think the other one is the signs. There's a lot of stuff about following your gut and seeing the signs. I've had a lot of experience in life, and— I don't really believe in ghosts, and all that stuff— but you see some signs in life where it might be in conversation with someone, it might be something on a billboard, it might have been something that you read, and then something clicked with you again. And I think it's about trying to follow those signs. Because I talked about being opportunistic, and I think that's one thing. But if you see those signs, and you go, 'You know what? I'm gonna follow my gut and go with that', or you see someone and you're like minded, and there's a layer of trust. And they're saying, 'Hey, do you want to do this deal with me?' Or 'Are you interested in this particular thing?' And a lot of people go [hesitantly] 'Oh, you know...' If you see the signs there, and it follows what you've known and that layering of trust, then I think that's the aha moment. It's to go, 'You know what, I'm going to give that a go'.

Turning to mindset and motivation, Flynn shares his reasoning behind why he works so hard at what he does.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:11:54] It's all about legacy. Legacy is something I never really comprehended until my father died. And it was when I really understood the true meaning of legacy. I wasn't at the army, this is, what, 15 years ago or something, 20 years ago. But that doesn't matter. The core is obviously legacy, and providing for your family. I think the other thing is, actually, I love it. Like, I love my work, I love my job, I love the people I work with, I'm passionate. I get up early, I'm always thinking, my brain rarely turns off. Even if I go on holidays, and I'm starting to think about some crazy app idea, I enjoy it. And I think that's the why. 

[00:12:55] I often say to people about work. And it's it's sort of a parallel, because if you said to someone, 'Okay, you know that you've got this certain salary now, if you could make that salary, on top of your existing salary, or even make that salary without doing anything for the whole year, would you still work your job?' And I find that you've got people that go 'Oh, nah, I wouldn't'. And then you got other people like, 'Well yeah, of course I'd want to do my job because I love the work'. And then the other thing is when you have a family, it's obviously different. You want to provide for your family. It's about drive, and about passion. So a passion for life. That's probably why. And legacy, to be honest.

[00:14:36] I always say if everything went up or it went this way, or went that way or south, what a great opportunity to reinvent yourself and go do something else. And I think that's something to almost look forward to, rather than dread. Because that could be the change in your life that could be totally something else that could be amazing. So I don't think you're ever going to know. And a lot of people do come to me for advice about 'This way or that way?' or 'I'm going to do this or do that'. And at the end of day, as long as you make the call and you're happy, well, you're never going to know. Because what you're doing is where you're going to go. So I think it's just about making the most of life. And that's probably about it.

Coming up after the break, Flynn reveals the insecurities he had early on in his investing journey...

[00:17:07] Everyone's got their own spreadsheet about numbers, and it's all about numbers, understanding the numbers. Which I've had to learn along the way. I'm just an engineer, what do I know? 

His hobbies and how they play into his financial wellbeing...

[00:25:08] I've always been funny with gadgets and like to try and repair things. And it's probably more about looking at 'Can I repair this?', instead of just buying something new.

His plans for the future, including a surprising potential project!

[00:29:53] I've got quite a few things at the moment that I'm looking over the next five years to really build and grow on. And then thereafter it will be to get more back into the system. And then hopefully in about 10 years or so I can maybe just do what I want and do something totally different again.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

Flynn gives insight into who his mentors have been and which resources have helped him succeed.

[00:15:45] I definitely have had quite a few mentors over the years, which I've been very fortunate to have. I find that sometimes you have quasi mentors— they're not like I'd call them a mentor, they're more maybe a client, or they're a relative, or they're even a friend, who you'll gain advice off. I've been fortunate to have a few very technical mentors. And on the investment journey, there have been a few. I find that the investment and the property mentors are great. And that's no problem. I think the investment mentors, and I think around financial planning, and financial mentors, it depends [on] their level of advice. Because I always find that most people either say, 'This is what I do, but maybe that's not right for you, and you need to get your own advice'. And then there's the 'This isn't advice', because they may be bound by giving advice. 

[00:16:55] I find that that can range in levels between, say investment properties very more open, and there's much more people saying, 'Oh, you could do this, you could do that'. Everyone's got their own spreadsheet about numbers, and it's all about numbers, understanding the numbers. Which I've had to learn along the way. I'm just an engineer, what do I know? But learning more about numbers, and learning more about risks, and how to quantify those risks in both time and cost— that's what I've really taken from a lot of people who have given me the ability to back myself. 

[00:17:45] When I can go look at something, I don't have to engage a number of professionals because you've been around the block so much that you can see what those risks are and actually quantify them. So [I’ve] definitely had a lot of mentors over the years. Technical, personal, but yeah, across property investment. And it's so hard, because I'll always try and soak as much knowledge off anyone I can, even if it's tidbit to dissertation.

Tyrone Shum:  

Speaking of resources, Flynn shares his favourite books— and what he’s been listening to.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:18:33] I've definitely been listening to the Property Investory podcast. That's really good. I've been really enjoying that. Getting time to read and for podcasts is difficult. Particularly [because] I've got a pretty crazy, crazy life, living life by the minute at the moment. Look, openly over the years. I've read plenty of different books. And I always like the classics, like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, or Barefoot Investor, Very just simple books, good themes, good things for people starting out. There are other books, like I do like a book... what's it called, I think, Zero to One. It's a small book about changing the mindset from going from here to there. It's about well, hold on, you start from this, and then you get to that point. It's about trying to change the dial on where you can start to finish. But yeah, I don't get a lot of time. But one of the books that I did recently read, which I really liked, was called Multipliers. It's a book about leadership, and how to multiply the people around you to grow and succeed. I did enjoy that. But yeah, I don't get as much time for reading as I'd like at the moment.

Tyrone Shum: 

We know that he doesn’t put all his eggs in one basket, but what other advice has Flynn taken on throughout his life?

Darren Flynn:   

[00:20:29] It would definitely be to go with your gut feel, going with your gut, going with what you think is right. Everyone talks about doing a pros and cons list. And I'm still a big believer in that, weighing everything up, and, and going with your gut. I know it's hard to define. And I talked about signs before— trying to combine those things and to have that feeling. And if the feeling's there, and you're trying to strip out all the emotion, this is based on numerical values, and these things on the table that are just emotion, I'm not talking about, like, you got being an emotional thing. But to go with the gut. And I think, even if you went wrong, or it went the wrong way, you can always turn around and look at what you've done and go 'Well, you know, what I followed that, I did that, I went with my gut. It may not have gone the right way'. And then learn from it, and then get on to the next thing.

Tyrone Shum:  

If he could go back 10 years and give himself advice, what advice would that be?

Darren Flynn:   

[00:22:00] Invest early. I've got a lot of other professionals and friends around me who are quite young. And I'm always saying to them, 'Invest early, invest early. Don't just save— invest. And invest young'. And maybe probably living a bit more frugally. I won't say I was not frugal when I was young– I definitely was because I didn't have enough money not to be— but if you really can look at your fundamentals in life, take a step back from those. I like, for example, something like Barefoot Investor that gives you the understanding to break down your income. Or even something like Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which can talk about how you can change yourself from either owning assets, or having assets and how you can change your cash flow. Understanding those at an early age and investing early, I think I would have definitely told myself 'Invest more and invest early'.

Tyrone Shum:   

Flynn explains what being frugal means to him.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:23:43] It's about buying things you don't need. I made a choice some time ago, and I don't want to sound flippant when I say this, but about having the nice things in life. So buying the nice bread, or buying some nice olive oil. The simple basics in life. It's not like buying the cheap olive oil to the nicer olive oil, there's a really big cost difference. But you've got the ability to do that, right. You're old, you've worked hard your life, you can do that. 

[00:24:24] I think it's more about when you're younger, you understand the value of money. It's not like you're going out there buying a bunch of stuff, but probably just thinking about, 'Well, do I really need a new jacket, do I really need another pair of shoes?'. Like I've just got one pair of boots now and I'll be wearing them literally, like unless I'm running or going to the beach. Like I just I've had these for four years and I haven't bought another pair and I probably won't hopefully for a long time. I'll probably just get them repaired. And I think it's just trying to get out of that mentality that your shirt's a little bit faded, I just need a new one. Or repairing things more. I've always been funny with gadgets and like to try and repair things. And it's probably more about looking at 'Can I repair this?', instead of just buying something new. Try to come back to that whole reuse recycling thing as well.

[00:27:11] It's only probably until you come out of it, and having kids. My wife's got bags and bags of clothes, that we either give away, or it's for the next child, and you start thinking, 'Oh, maybe we'll buy them a dress or a shirt or something, just so they might have something of their own'. But then you go, 'Well, why would you when you've already got wardrobes of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ready to go? They're clean, and they're still in good condition. So why just go dump them in a bin? Let's get as many wears out of these things as we can’.

Tyrone Shum:   

He shares what projects are going on in the Flynn household at the moment, and what projects are in his future plans— maybe even a book of his own!

Darren Flynn:   

[00:28:03] Building a successful business is paramount. Raising my children with good values that want to talk to me, and have an open communication with and watching them grow. For me, I'm a family man, that's number one. There's also, on the investment side, yeah, it's busy times. I'm building a pool at the moment, I mean, it's crazy. As well as trying to fit in a bunch of other little things. So it's me just trying to see maybe a bit of a horizon in the short term. 

[00:28:46] And then looking to build on my networks, build on different investment strategies and looking to continue to a point where I've done all these things and can spend more time with the family, be able to tinker. I like being able to do, I like projects, I like challenges, I like problems to solve. I do to a certain extent now, but to be able to try and to pick and choose those, I think when you can be more in control of what you do on your day to day, and you're starting to do everything that you want on a daily basis. And when you can get up and go, 'I don't actually want to do anything today', I'll just totally change my mind and do why. I think, definitely, at least in the next 10 years more than about five, but yeah. 

[00:29:53] I've got quite a few things at the moment that I'm looking over the next five years to really build and grow on. And then thereafter it will be to get more back into the system. And then hopefully in about 10 years or so I can maybe just do what I want and do something totally different again. I don't know, maybe write a kid's book or something. I don't know. Too many dreams, that's the problem!

Young people are staying at home longer these days— Flynn shares his opinion on whether his kids will follow this trend, and whether or not his wife agrees.

Darren Flynn:   

[00:30:45] I've been pretty adamant. Like, I want my kids out the door at 18. I'm like '18, you're out the door, sorry about that. Go live your life'. But my wife seems to think that won't happen. But I'd like to think regardless, and I do really, sincerely hope this, that they do turn around and go, 'Yeah, I'm out the door, I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go rent'. I mean, even if I have to help them. Because it paved the way for me to learning independence. And without having to go cut my teeth washing dishes, it wouldn't have made me who I am. I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for doing that. And I'm not saying that's for everyone. But it's more about saying, Look, I hope that at some point in time— I'm not trying to tell my kids like, ‘Hey, you're 30, it's time to leave’— I'm hoping that they look to leave on their own fruition.

Tyrone Shum:  

32:02 The last question I did want to ask you, is you've achieved quite a lot in your inner journey, you know, through what you've got there. Do you think? Or how much of your success do you think is due to skill, intelligence and hard work? And how much of it do you think is because of luck?

Darren Flynn:   

[00:33:22] I'm a big believer in that you make your own luck. Sure, there's a small component of everything that you think could come down to luck. But you have to be in the room to start with, to be fortunate enough to receive the luck. And the reason that you got in the room is because of hard work, dedication, and the knowledge, attitudes and practices that you've picked up over the years. So yeah, look, I'm sure there's definitely a component of luck. But as I said, you pave your own way. You follow the signs, you follow your gut. And to do that you're prepared and if you're prepared and you've done your homework, then really, is it luck? Or have you put in the hard yards to make it so? 

[00:34:21] I feel I'm a pretty lucky guy. But I have been fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time. And whether or not that came down to those other things that you mentioned— potentially. But I'm a big believer of giving back. We talked about networks and someone rings you up for a favour, you try and help them out. And then you never know, you might have to ring them up for a favour or even someone who's your employee that wants to leave. You wish them all the best, congratulations, shake their hand. Two years later, they might be your client, who you want to try and get some work from. So yeah, I think that sort of plays into it as well. Yeah. I'd say I'm pretty lucky though, like, I was born in Australia. I mean, that's pretty lucky right there. We're very fortunate where we live.

Thank you to Darren Flynn, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.