Property Podcast
How to Make A Passive Income With Private Funds With Salena Kulkarni
June 13, 2021
Salena Kulkarni is an Amazon bestselling author, a chartered accountant, property strategist, and founder of Freedom Warrior. This program helps business owners create consistent income and assists in achieving them their financial freedom.
Join us in this episode of Property Investory as we discuss the alluring world of private funds. We delve into what they are, how you can get into one, and what the benefits can be. Kulkarni doesn’t shy away from sharing her own experiences, starting with an out-of-the-ordinary story of how she got involved in private funds in the first place! From there she has accessed ‘epic deal flow’ that she couldn’t have achieved on her own, delving into performance splits and how due to profit shares she can receive up to 80% of the profits as the investor— and how you can, too.

Timestamps:
01:06 | Explorer Est. 2009
03:29 | Premium Playgrounds
07:04 | Spreading the Love
07:48 | Funds: A Great Way to Find Gold
16:45 | The Investors Are the Ones Taking the Risk
19:07 | If You Want to Build Real Wealth, You’ve Got to Learn How to Fish
23:35 | The Alternative Space
25:43 | Go Chasing Waterfalls
29:01 | The Devil’s in the Detail
31:04 | It’s a Stage of Life Thing

Resources and Links:

Transcript:
Salena Kulkarni:
[00:06:39] What excites me about the private fund space that I play in is that depending on the fund, and depending on the goal of the fund, they can buy individual houses, they can buy apartment complexes, they can buy all sorts of different assets that, to be honest with you, big fund managers would overlook.

**INTRO MUSIC** 

Tyrone Shum:
This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.
 
I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Amazon bestselling author, chartered accountant, and founder of the Freedom Warrior program, Salena Kulkarni. We explore private funds and their different types, how they can create passive income, how you can invest $100 and receive a 10% net return, and much, much more!

**END INTRO MUSIC**

**START BACKGROUND MUSIC**

Tyrone Shum:
We dive into the world of private funds, and Kulkarni begins by discussing her first experience in this fascinating area.

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:00:18] For me, the discovery of the world of private funds has really been like a holy grail of discovery. It's been the vehicle that has allowed me to access more premium opportunities at the same time. And I have a huge sleep at night factor because my suite of trusted advisors, they're running the fund. They're really experienced investors, and they're going to do a significantly better job of asset selection than I could ever achieve on my own. And I think ultimately, that's really what you want, you want to leverage other people's genius.

Explorer Est. 2009

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:01:06] So in terms of a fund, could you just explain what funds are? And how, for example, you've found them in the past?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:01:15] Like everything, it's all about being an explorer, and trying different things. And we've talked about before, like, I started investing in this sort of stuff in '09, and got plenty of cuts and bruises along the way. And then as you become more experienced around how these things work, and you know what questions you need to ask, you just start to meet good people. And then good people introduce you to other good people. And then it becomes really easy to distinguish between who are the A grade players and B grade players.

[00:01:52] Private funds are definitely not a new thing. And the essence of a private fund is that there's a group of investors that work with a fund manager or a sophisticated investor. And instead of investing into a single asset, they might acquire a series of different assets. They could be apartment complexes, single residential, family housing, business loans secured by real property, the purchasing of debt, or lending as a concept. So there's so many permutations like storage facilities and land banking, and there's a zillion different permutations. And so part of the challenges as an investor for me was actually making sure that I fully understood the strategy of the fund manager, and made sure that from a risk point of view that that was palatable for me.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:02:51] So just to understand a little bit more about the type of funds. So we're not just talking exclusively, just property investment types of private lending funding, we're talking about all sorts of types.


Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:03:01] Private funds can exist across the spectrum. So you can get private funds which are about investing in small capped businesses and things like that. But for me, personally, I tend to lean into those that are backed by real estate. So private funds in my world, and in the world of Freedom Warrior is all about real estate backed funds. But yeah, that is a really good point to distinguish.

Premium Playgrounds

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:03:29] Yeah, that's great. And I guess from your experience of investing into a fund, how did you come across, say, the first one that you've invested in, for example?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:03:38] So a few years ago— I'm just trying to think what year it would have been— one of my mentors invited me over to come and spend some time with him and his clients. And what I recognised was a lot of people had a leaning towards these private funds. Because basically, what it means is you get access to epic deal flow, that I could never find on my own, nor would I have the inclination to build the network needed. But I could still participate. 

[00:04:11] And to be honest with you, what I've witnessed over the last at least five to 10 years is that private funds, syndications, joint ventures, they're really the playground of super high net worth families and individuals. They want safety, they want premium returns, and they don't necessarily want to spend all day figuring it out themselves. So the world of private funds for me has opened up and cemented the idea that it's not what you know, it's who you know.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:04:49] And can I just also find out a little bit about these private funds, are they also something that need to be regulated or can any experienced investor set up a fund? Because if they have investors, what's stopping them from seeing a fund?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:05:03] Great question. So these funds sit in a space, which is that they're not listed on stock exchanges, obviously, they're not real estate investment trusts. And they're allowed to carry a certain amount of capital, I think it's up to $100 million or something like that. And there's regulation in terms of how they report, what kind of investors they're allowed to work with, and so forth. But they have to create a private placement memorandum, which is effectively an overview of everything— how they charge their fees, how the funds are structured, what they invest in, what's the strategy— so that someone who is an experienced investor can come along and read that and get some cut through and an insight. 

[00:05:57] But because of the fact that they sit below the real estate investment trusts which trade on the stock exchange, they're able to be a lot more nimble in the way that they deploy capital. And so that's why they get better returns. One of the problems with the real estate investment trusts that trade on the stock exchange is they've got such huge amounts of capital, they don't have the infrastructure and administration to break that up into lots of micro deals. 

[00:06:28] So what they're looking for is just a few big deals to throw their money into. And so often, the returns in the huge deals is much more capped. So what excites me about the private fund space that I play in is that depending on the fund, and depending on the goal of the fund, they can buy individual houses, they can buy apartment complexes, they can buy all sorts of different assets that, to be honest with you, big fund managers would overlook.

Spreading the Love

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:07:04] It's really fascinating and it's a completely different space to what I think most of us investors would be doing most of the time. The biggest difference is that you're investing into something that someone manages, and there's access to so much different assets, within say, the real estate space. So in your personal example, are you able to share with us, then what kind of fund that you've invested in?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:07:29] I like to spread the love. So I love that with these private funds, you can put a bit of money into different funds. And what's interesting about funds is, depending on the mandate of the fund and who's running it, there are funds out there where the minimum investment is $100 with a 10% net return. There's funds out there where the minimum is $250,000. And everything in between. And then there's funds where you have to commit for a year, and then there's funds that you have to commit for 10 years. So there's lots of permutations out there. 

[00:08:05] But what I love about funds is if you're an investor who just doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with day-to-day management of investments, or you want to align with someone who is really just, that's their jam, and they're really good at that specific niche strategy. I kind of liken it to you come in as an investor, and you just pick the things off the buffet that you like. So yes, there's a whole lot of work that goes into making sure that you're picking the right funds, because there's a lot of crappy funds out there. But if you're someone who wants to be a professional investor in a more passive way, I think private funds lend themselves beautifully to that sort of thing.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:08:57] It sounds like a really, really easy and simple passive strategy. And maybe I shouldn't say it's easy all the time because it sounds great. But what I'm trying to understand is why then a lot of people don't don't jump into these kinds of funds, because if you just put $100 in and get a 10% return, it's a very low barrier to entry. Why is it not many people [are] doing it? 

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:09:18] The first thing is as we've spoken about in other episodes, my interest has really meant that I've got one foot in the Australian camp and another foot in the US camp from an investment point of view. And from a private fund perspective, Australia is nowhere near as evolved as the [United] States. And so, to be frank with you, I just think people don't do it because they don't know about it. 
 
[00:09:45] When you talk about funds to the average Australian, they're thinking managed fund, like your Vanguards and those sorts of things, where to be honest with you, you end up with pretty boring results, uninspiring results. And even if the results are pretty good, it isn't necessarily about generating cash flow. And the contrast is a lot of the funds that I like, they are predominantly for me a cash flow strategy. 

Funds: A Great Way to Find Gold

[00:10:14] So there's all sorts of funds, and I can certainly share an example. But there's one fund that I go into that has a very diversified approach. It invests in projects which deliver income. And it also invests in projects where they can create forced appreciation. So that particular fund, they have a minimum commitment of $100,000. They invest in things like loans, they do fix and flip projects, they do some commercial debt, distress commercial debt, equity investments, multifamily, self storage... there's a whole range of things. And what these guys are trying to do is offer an overall return of 10 to 13% net per year to investors. 

[00:11:07] I feel I have good downside protection inside the fund, because I'm getting a 7% return before anybody else gets paid. I like the way the management fees are structured. I don't proclaim to be the world's authority on any of this stuff by any means. But for me, as an investor on the journey to developing annuities, and that consistent predictable income, I think funds are a great vehicle. I really enjoy them. And I hope we cover off the asterixes— it's not complex, but the big challenge is finding the gold, finding the better ones. Because there's hundreds and hundreds of them out there.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:11:56] Yeah, so that's the biggest question I'm having right now. If there's hundreds and hundreds of them out there, then what do you do? Where do you even start to find them? It's the same thing with property, there's hundreds and thousands of properties on realestate.com.au or even Domain. You hop on there and you go, 'Okay, where do I start?' And does that mean you've got to firstly take a step back and go, okay, what [are] my goals, and then you work down, break it down from there? Or do you go through recommendations? Like, how would you approach this?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:12:26] I think you've sort of part answered it there. I definitely feel before you invest $1 into anything— like literally, anything— be crystal clear about what you want. I've met so many investors who have started on the path of investing, and have been really opportunistic, and this person says, 'Look, this is really good'. And then that person says, 'That's really good'. And they end up with this portfolio of really mishmash investments that when you really sit down and go, 'What are you actually trying to create here? What are you actually trying to achieve?' Most of the investments are not in alignment with that. 

Salena Kulkarni:  
[00:13:02] So the starting point is: what do you actually want? Break it down into two or three concrete things, like I need X amount of passive income, or I'm looking for X amount of equity, or I'm looking for... whatever, there's so many different permutations, but pin that down first. And then the second piece is you want to really make sure before you undertake anything— like we're talking about some pretty sexy strategies, together Tyrone, and I love that. But I think the thing is, you shouldn't invest in anything you don't understand. 

[00:13:39] I think a bunch of us, including me, jumped into things like Bitcoin, just because it was like, 'Ooh, I'll have a bit of a punt'. But if your attitude is that and you're really just happy to take a gamble on an investment then great, go for it. But for me, personally, education is number two. So number one, what do you want, number two is educate yourself on what's out there, what's available. And then you can make informed decisions about top level which strategies align for me. 

[00:14:13] So as we talked about, I think in another episode, you're not going to start chasing strategies which deliver cash flow when you've got no capital. You've got to get your foundations right. And the Australian real estate market lends itself beautifully to that. And then these sorts of strategies maybe come a little later when you need cash flow. So it's really important. How do you tell the wood from the trees is educate yourself, get clear on your goals, and then research, do your homework. Set a criteria for how you're going to do your due diligence.

**ADVERTISEMENT**

Tyrone Shum:
Coming up after the break, Kulkarni shares how she became involved with her first private fund...

Salena Kulkarni:
[00:15:54] I'd never heard anyone speak about investing the way that I'd heard him speak. The way that he was so clinical about it, there was no emotion in it whatsoever. 

Tyrone Shum:
She reveals if she would ever set up her own fund...

Salena Kulkarni:
[00:20:07] People have approached me more recently and said, 'Salena, I don't really want to learn this stuff, why don't you just set up a fund, and we'll give you our money'. 

Tyrone Shum:
We discuss the alternative space, what she loves about it, and what the benefits can be.

Salena Kulkarni:
[00:23:36] The other thing I just want to add to make sure people understand is I'm not putting huge amounts of money into any single investment when it comes to the alternative.

Tyrone Shum:
And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

**READ ADVERTISEMENT** 

**END ADVERTISEMENT**

Tyrone Shum:  
Heading into Kulkarni’s personal journey, she divulges the unusual story behind what— or who— attracted her to invest in the private fund she chose. 

Salena Kulkarni:  
[00:15:17] I think if I'm really frank, the reason I went into this particular fund was I'd heard the guy who ran the fund speak a number of times. And what I loved about him was he was so ambivalent about whether you joined his fund or not, and really what he was about was adding value and helping you understand how to be a better investor. And I kind of stalked him and tracked him down, and then got to know him quite well. And he's actually become a really good friend of mine now. 

[00:15:51] But hands down, I'd never heard anyone speak about investing the way that I'd heard him speak. The way that he was so clinical about it, there was no emotion in it whatsoever. The way that he allocated capital, the care in which he gave each acquisition, just such a huge amount of consideration. Whether it was a $70,000 investment or a $7 million investment, the thought process and mechanics were the same. 
 
[00:16:21] So part of the journey is really getting into the heads of these fund managers and understanding, like, what are they thinking? How are they thinking it? Why are they choosing the assets? Because if someone has a really detached way of like, 'Oh, yeah, people just bring me deals, and then I just pull the trigger', and they're not really able to articulate their criteria for asset selection. And that, for me, is a bit of a red flag. 

The Investors Are the Ones Taking the Risk

[00:16:45] And then on the same note, I think, how do they structure their fees? Do I get paid first as the investor? Or do they get paid first? And I can't even tell you. Years ago, I think 2009 [or] 2010, someone approached me because they knew I was really interested in this sort of stuff, and asked me to be the face of their fund. And this was an Australian group. 'Can you be our face?' And what really stuck with me was, I couldn't believe the way that'd developed this prospectus. That was just the biggest load of crap, from the viewpoint of all of their fees were hidden. They were talking about raising $100 million, their fees were ridiculous, like, tens of millions, it was just insane. 

[00:17:36] For me, I want cut through and transparency about, well, how do you make your money? And we heard this recently, I think I shared with you, you want to see fund managers make a tiny bit at the front, a little bit as they run the fund, but they want to be paid at the back end, same as us, when the deals come to fruition. And so many funds don't work like that. So many funds, they get this huge clip up front for just securing the asset. You're the one as the investor taking all the risk, and the better fund managers will understand that the investors are the ones taking the risk. You need to be the ones cared for first. So that's a big consideration for me.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:18:25] Wow. It's really interesting that you mentioned that, and I think it's good to know, because fund managers, ultimately, they're there to help manage the assets, but they've got to be paid and rewarded for their work. And I know very successful fund managers who have been paid quite handsomely because of their work that they've done for certain funds they've set up. But I guess what I'm looking at is making sure that the fund managers also have skin in the game, because if they believe that their fund is successful, they should be investing in themselves as well.

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:18:57] Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. If they're not investing alongside you, they can't really believe in their own product.

If You Want to Build Real Wealth, You’ve Got to Learn How to Fish

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:19:07] I've also heard that in the past, when I've spoken to a few other developers, and also people who have been looking into this space, a lot of them have wanted to raise a fund, but they've hesitated even trying to put the fund even though they get a lot of investors. They said that there's a lot of... let's say paperwork involved, a lot of governance that needs to [be done], a lot of cost they're involved in setting up initially these kinds of funds. Is that the reason why also, too, and particularly in Australia, it's been quite challenging to set a fund up unless you've got millions and millions of dollars and also ongoing income to pay for it? Because every year there's also licencing fees and so forth. Has that been the case from what you've seen, and that's the reason why it's also been quite restrictive for people to actually go ahead and just set up a fund like this?

Salena Kulkarni:  
[00:19:53] Yeah, it's a good point. There's definitely massive issues around compliance and reporting and making sure you do the right thing, in terms of ASIC and all the local regulatory authorities. But people have approached me more recently and said, 'Salena, I don't really want to learn this stuff, why don't you just set up a fund, and we'll give you our money'. But I just inherently kind of disagree with that. I feel like if you want to build real wealth, that will last beyond your own existence, you've got to actually learn how to fish. 

[00:20:32] And so there's that part of me, which says, 'No, you've got to learn this stuff, because it matters'. Because if you put your faith in somebody else, you're immediately diluting the impact that you can achieve. And then the second part of it is that there's no way I would ever want to make investment decisions and carry the weight of that burden for somebody else. 

[00:20:56] So, I know that there are plenty of funds in Australia, I get approached all the time by Australians running funds, asking me to put forward my clients. The challenge is it takes a while to build, know, like, and trust. So I'm very slow to put anyone as a trusted advisor in front of my clients, because that's how I invest. And you're probably similar, Tyrone, you want to really make sure you've ticked a whole lot of boxes before you put a dollar into anything. You never want to take a punt, not like for me, Bitcoin was a total punt. But if we're talking about trying to build wealth that will last, you can't take punts.

Tyrone Shum:  
[00:21:51] Oh, no, of course not. And that's the last thing I'd want to do, because if I'm investing in these myself, I want to make sure that I'm going to get a return back. And that's why I do a lot of due diligence behind that, even jumping into any of these types of deals that I've been working on as well. And if I'm not comfortable to even do it myself, I'm not gonna recommend it to an investor. 
 
[00:22:10] It'd be the same thing with these private investings. If you've invested into a private fund, tried it out for yourself, and it's actually worked and you trust what they've been doing and the fund manager has been good, then yeah, that's when you probably want to recommend it. But I think it's the same principle, if you just take a step back, let's take property, private fund, any of that kind of stuff out of it— if you tried a product, and you're happy with it, you'd probably go and recommend it to your friends and family, and so forth. 
 
[00:22:35] I'll give you an example. I've just talked to you about the Apple Airpod Pros. I tested it myself just recently, and I was blown away by it. And I was like, 'Wow!' And I've started recommending it to yourself and a few other people. If the product's great, you wouldn't even hesitate and think about it twice to recommend to people. It'd be the same thing in property. If the deal is that good and it works, and people trust it, then it's an easy no brainer to recommend to people. 

[00:23:02] And that's why I think the key aspect is that you've got to be able to test it out for yourself before really going ahead. Because it's not only just your own self that's on the line, but it's also your integrity and your own reputation. And also, too, you just want to go to sleep at night, you don't want to be recommending something and then you get a call down the track and go, 'By the way, you told me this and you lost money'. That would be the worst thing I could ever experience and I wouldn't ever want that for any investors.

The Alternative Space

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:23:35] I think the other thing I just want to add to make sure people understand is I'm not putting huge amounts of money into any single investment when it comes to the alternative. And one of the reasons I love the space of alternative is that your capacity to truly diversify is immense. You can put small amounts of money and small amounts of capital with 15 [or] 20 different deal makers and advisors, who are in different geographic locations, different investment strategies, different liquidity points, different specific assets, some for cash flow, some for growth... if any one of those fell over, I'm not going to die in a ditch. 

[00:24:24] And I think that's a really important thing for people to consider is that as much as I love Australian property, what happens is you put a huge amount of capital, and you put it all on red, and you're hoping and praying that that asset moves in the right direction. And I think a little bit of that is good, and you need that to get yourself out of the gates. But what I love about this alternative is small amounts of money with lots of different people.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:24:55] Yeah, then that's just basically diversifying your risk as well, too, and not putting all your eggs in one basket to ensure that you get a good return. And the good thing about doing that is you can also average your return because you might get some with higher returns, some with lower returns. But when you average it out it actually gives you a nice, good stable average return across the board. And that's what I love about what you share as well, too. 

[00:25:17] I'd love to delve a little bit more into a fund like this one that you've recently invested in, as you mentioned how do they actually make money from it? Because they can invest into assets. And as we talked about in one other episode about so for example, syndications, obviously, you're only investing into one. And we knew that from that last deal that we talked about was basically the capital growth, and also the rental income. But how does a private fund like this make money?

Go Chasing Waterfalls

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:25:43] So this particular one I invested in a few years ago, it's not a recent one. But basically, they invest into all different things, there's often a quarterly update, so I can see what projects are on the go at the moment. This particular fund is always aiming to get a net return to investors of 10 to 13%. And I think during the 2020 year, it dipped a little below, only because they took a more defensive approach, and they didn't put as much money out to work. 

[00:26:19] But how they make their money is they have a management fee. And then as projects generate cash, or as assets are sold, if they're being used to create for that forced appreciation, then the profits are split between the fund manager and the investors. And that's effectively how they make their money. Now, I've definitely done the math on some of the better funds that I work with, and to be honest with you, it's not a super lucrative game for them. But they're all investors themselves. And I think that it's a... what's the word? Is it symbiotic? Or... what's it called when the plankton sit on the whale? A relationship which is mutually beneficial. But they need us less than we need them. 

[00:27:21] So in this particular fund, there's a performance split. So 7%, at a minimum, gets paid to the investor. And then after that, there's different classes of shares, depending on how much money you put in. So generally, on a profit share basis, it might be an 80/20 split, meaning 80% of the profits come to me as the investor, 20% to them. Or a 70/30, split, 70% to me, 30% of them and so on. They call that the waterfall, and good fund managers will stack that in the investor's favour.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:28:03] Can you sort of just explain or go into a little bit more detail behind that? When you say, let's just take in a unit see that which is like a 60/40 split? And you've invested say, $100,000 into it. Does that mean that 60% would go back to you and 40% will go back to the managing fund?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:28:19] The first 7% of all the profit for the year comes to me. After that, the profit on my share would be split 60/40. 60% to me, 40% to them.

Tyrone Shum:  
[00:28:31] Okay, so that's a pretty good deal. Say, for example— I don't know how much profit, like, for example, a fund like this, but could they say that they could be making a $1 million profit, and a percentage of that goes back to you? 

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:28:44] I have the sense that I'm aiming for 10 to 13% per annum net. And sometimes it's above that. And sometimes it's just at the lower end of that.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:28:58] But at least there'll be a sort of a minimum cap of say, 7%.

The Devil’s in the Detail

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:29:01] This one's an interesting one. Because whenever you've got a diversified fund that has income and growth, the growth assets are going to sometimes slow down the returns, because you're selling them in, it's very lumpy. If you go into a pure Income Fund, then your returns are much steadier. Or if you go into a growth fund, then usually what the fund manager will do is just return capital at the end, and you just get this whopping return right at the end. 

[00:29:28] So that's why I like, in this case, the distributions are quarterly, but you've got to really understand the strategy of the fund that you're going into to kind of get a sense of 'Am I okay about not getting any return for 12 months, or no, I want to invest in something that pays me monthly or quarterly'. So there's just understanding the details. The devil's in the detail.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:29:52] Yeah, absolutely. And how long do you have to be in these funds? Is there a minimum timeframe?

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:29:57] Some funds have a minimum— most funds, I should say, have a minimum timeframe. I tend to lean into the ones that have a 12 month to five year sort of span. There are ones that run for 10 years, there are some funds that I have that will give me my money back within 90 days notice if I ask them, if I just say, 'Look, I need to get out'. 

[00:30:23] So, again, everyone's different, and when I'm helping people figure out what's going to be a fit for them, understanding how much cash should you keep in reserve and what do you need, and then marrying that with the opportunities is part of the game.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:30:44] Yeah, absolutely. I know that there's not going to be one perfect scenario where we can talk about there. But I'm sort of thinking, would this be more attractive to probably people who are nearing sort of their retirement kind of thing? That they want that continued income that's coming in to support and sustain a lifestyle if they've already got an existing portfolio.

It’s a Stage of Life Thing

Salena Kulkarni:  
[00:31:04] For me, I don't know if it's so much an age thing or a retirement thing. I think it's a stage of life thing. So if you're someone who likes the idea of having a very strong income outside your business, then you could start doing this in your 30s. If you're someone who's got a reasonable asset base behind you, and you just want to start ramping up the income, then, again, not so much an age thing, but stage of life. Like, I don't want to rely so heavily on my business income. 
 
[00:31:45] And so for me, I think COVID really put the wind up a lot of people, like really scared them. And so I think that idea of having another income stream is...I mean, I think it's crucial to be thinking about that at every stage of life. But whether you're at the point where that's viable, or makes sense is a different issue. But I think who could complain about an income stream that comes from somewhere else that is maybe going to give you a plan B? I mean, that's really what it is.

Tyrone Shum:   
[00:32:24] Yeah, that makes absolute sense. I'm glad that you clarified, I'll explain that a bit more, because I was just thinking the same thing. As you mentioned, with COVID that hit. Say, for example, as soon it hit back last year, if your business was retail and you're forced to close down, such as a cafe, and you had great cash flow from the business, but then you had no income for like, almost three, four months, or even up to six months, some stores had to stay closed. Gosh, imagining having that extra source of income that was coming in from a private fund. That would be able to sort of continue to live, I guess you can say. And that's kind of like your fallback plan, B plan, that's available that you don't necessarily need to tap into unless situations like that do happen. Almost like an emergency income.

Salena Kulkarni:   
[00:33:08] Yeah, yeah. Look, there're so many ways of framing it, but I do think the... for us on our— my husband and I— on our wealth journey, it's like, well, what's our plan A? What's our plan B? Plan C has become our Australian property portfolio, which will tick away in the background, and plan D is super. We're firing on all cylinders, or we're trying to anyway!

**OUTRO**

Thank you to Salena Kulkarni our guest on this special episode on Property Investory.