In this episode, we’ll hear the details of Khou’s property development journey, including a repulsive renovation. As well as this, discover how to balance a full-time job with property development, the key to making at least $250,000 per deal and the dangers of having too much on your plate.

Timestamps:
4:42 | Growing Up in Melbourne
6:28 | Managing Two Jobs
7:25 | Discovering Goals
8:45 | Finding What You’re Good At
12:54 | Bad Investing Moments
17:10 | The Moment it ‘Clicks’
18:02 | Complimentary Skills
21:59 | The Balancing Act
26:53 | The Process of Developing
31:49 | Jumping the Hurdles
38:53 | Aiding Success

Resources and Links:

[13:19] My brother and myself are always interested in running our own business. We just didn't know what it was.

 

This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

 

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode, we’re speaking with Sunhoc Khou, property developer and founder of HWD Homes. We’ll hear how he manages to balance a full-time job with property development, how to make an average profit of at least $250,000 per deal and the dangers of having too much on your plate.

 

 

 

Before diving into property development, Khou already had an established career. However, his focus is shifting towards property development.

 

[0:27] I'm actually an accountant by trade, but I've obviously turned my attention to property development in the last five to seven years.

 

HWD Homes specialises in creating quality boutique residential development. The story behind the business name is what Khou describes as ‘tacky’ yet ‘quite funny’.

 

[29:24] My brother [and] myself are big boxing fans or martial arts in general. So, you've obviously heard of Floyd Mayweather?

 

[29:39] So, he has an acronym for during his training camp, and that's hard work [and] dedication. That's what it [HWD Homes] stands for.

 

When working for HWD Homes, Khou’s day consists of a lot of administration work.

 

[3:19] I still actually work a full time job at the moment. So, I still do my finance or accounting work. But on a given day, in terms of the property development stuff, I've actually got it set up pretty well. So, a lot of my work is actually on the phone or on emails. So, it's actually just responding to the consultants, making sure the real estate agents are doing their job and following up leads for sales.

 

[3:52] So, to be honest, a lot of it is actually just overseeing administration. More around the project managing — Just making sure everything's on time, on budget, and everything's moving along. So, I'm really just on the phone and answering emails, to be honest. Unless I'm out on site, sort of doing some deal appraisals. But even when we're looking for deals, a lot of that's done in the back office before we go on site to check it.

 

Along with a full-time job, Khou has a lot to juggle throughout his day. He shares how he manages to do both.

 

[4:43] It does vary quite a bit depending on what stage is the properties are at or sorry, [what stage] the deals are at. Because we've been doing it for a while, at the start if your intention was to still work full time — It is difficult at the start because obviously you got to make the contacts, you got to get that knowledge where you don't have to be chasing things up all the time and you've got that sort of relationship with consultants, and you can give someone a task and you know it's going to get done. But at the moment, I would say — So, me and my brother run the business together — So, we may spend two hours a day each on administration, maybe not even that.

 

[5:38] Our intention was always to go full time in property development. But I've had some, I've been fortunate enough to have some very good mentors and be part of some good networking groups where we were advised that because I know the dream for everyone is to go full time into their own business. But we've sort of got a transition plan just to be a bit more conservative, especially with the way the market is. So, that was the advice that we were given that probably is something that we should look at, but not to jump straight into.

 

Although Khou would be able to go into property development full-time, he is listening to the advice he was given.

 

[6:43] To be honest, with what we've built up, we could probably — So, when I say we, it's my brother and myself — We could probably do it now. But it's just something that we want to, because we're still young and still sort of enjoy the busy lifestyle for now. It's something that we want to look towards in the next sort of 12 to 18 months.

 

 

Khou was raised in Melbourne, which is where he now chooses to invest.

 

[7:23] I grew up in the south-eastern suburbs of Melbourne. So, Ferntree Gully, if you're familiar with that area. It's around the Knox area.

 

[7:52] I went to primary school and high school in the Knox area. And I completed a Bachelor of Commerce and Accounting after high school. So, [I] got that bachelor's and a CPA qualified. So, a lot of studies.

 

Throughout his time studying, Khou also held down some part-time jobs.

[8:34] I worked in what is now Bunnings but used to be ... not sure if you remember that. So, I think Bunnings took over, probably decades ago. [I] had part time jobs in Dick Smith. They got taken over or went bankrupt. So yeah, [I] just did whatever I could do at that time.

 

After completing his university degree, Khou jumped straight into his accounting career.

 

[9:11] I jumped straight into a graduate accounting job, so to speak. And yeah, [I] just moved into different sorts of areas of accounting and finance since that point. And what I've had to do — And this is probably one of the things I didn't touch on before when I said I worked full time — I actually had to move out of finance and accounting to be able to do my development as well.

 

[9:36] So, obviously an accounting or finance job is very nine to five. Whereas I've got a full time role now. It's very flexible. And the reason I sort of left the accounting field to work full time is to be able to do my property investing and developing as well.

 

 

After leaving the accounting field, Khou’s job gave him the flexibility to have more focus on property development.

 

[10:03] I'm in operational planning in the utilities industry. And, for me to do that at that time, so I did that probably four years ago. So, that was a really big sort of milestone for me because obviously I'd studied three years undergrad and three years post grad to get my CPA and then to actually give, well in a sense, give [up] sort of the finance career after move into planning, where [it] was more flexible.

 

[10:35] So, I can work from home, start when I want, finish when I want. It wasn't the same as, [it's] obviously not the same as quitting your full time job but it was a big move for myself to be able to make sure I could pursue the property investing side of it.

 

Khou and his brother always knew that they wanted to have their own business however, they faced one problem — They had no idea what they wanted to do.

 

[13:24] We were — sounds a bit funny when I look back on it now. So, we actually looked at franchises. Subways and Grilled franchises, thinking to become a franchisee. Thinking maybe that's the way to go and then we bought a few vending machines, thinking that might be the way to go.

 

[13:50] So, I guess if I was to think about whether my parents had any influence over [the] property side of it, they would talk about it like most mum and dad's but not particularly in developing itself. So, we always had an interest in business and so, it sort of led us to the property side of it anyway. So, there's only so many things you can do — Business shares, property in terms of investing. And we sort of looked at each one of them, and felt that share trading definitely wasn't for us and opening a franchise business definitely wasn't for us either.

 

 

After deciding to invest into property, Khou needed to find what he was good at.

 

[11:42] Like many developers, so, we actually started off in renovation. So, we were, my brother [and] myself we're advert property networking [and] workshop attendees. So, people that go to all these events and get that sort of motivational aspect of it. So, we used to go to a lot of those workshops where people present and say, 'Well, you could do passive income and that'. So, we were always interested in property investing but developing itself was sort of something that came maybe four years down the track.

 

[12:22] When we actually sat down and figured out what we really want to do. Because we had bought property before developing, but we were sort of like more, not to be disrespectful, but [we were] more of a mum, sort of a mum and dad's sort of investor. Where we were just buying property to renovate without any timelines or budgets or any sort of goals. So, it was just one of those things where you would hear in the media that that's what everyone should be doing, we should be trying to invest. So, we did that without any sort of clear direction.

 

Before Khou found his niche in property development, he experimented with renovations.

 

[15:03] We ended up renovating — It wasn't a lot, so we did three renovations. So, the first one we bought was, it was the most disgusting property you'd ever seen. It just needed a full makeover, and it was just filth.

 

[15:28] I think it was a guy on benefits, who had a few dogs that lived in the house. So, it was just urine and faeces everywhere. But it was cheap. So, it was a good lesson that after we did our first one, we kind of thought 'this is, we're really not good at this renovation thing'. So, we end up doing another two, but very small renovation jobs. More of a clean-up and a dress up, as opposed to wall changes and kitchen changes and things.

 

He bought this house for $237,000 and managed to make a good profit.

 

[17:21] We made around $90,000 of that one. So, we were absolutely stoked.

 

[18:00] That's gross before tax. So, we wouldn't have done that one under, from memory, under a business or anything. So, we really just bought it on our personal names and [did] not had any GST issues or anything like that.

 

[17:29] We weren't sure if that was the renovation or the market. So, I think when we look back at it, we might have got lucky, and it might have been the market that went up at that stage. Because we bought such a crappy property in an okay area, and we spent maybe $50,000 ish on the renovation. $50,000 to $60,000.

 

After discovering that renovation wasn’t his thing, Khou started his property development journey.

 

[0:48] If I go back to the start, we started off in the residential property development. And we just looked at sort of deluxe sites and sort of gradually moved on from there. Some have done two on a site — we've actually done one on a site behind an existing property before. [We then] moved on to two [and] then we done three, four, and so on. So, but we're sort of kept in that sort of range of about four units and that's sort of our niche at the moment.

 

[18:43] So, from when we first started, we've done around 15 projects to date, with some of them still ongoing. So, not all of them were actually built, because obviously with the market changing, we normally assess them and see whether there's actually any value selling with permits, or actually in the land itself. So, probably taken to completion around two thirds of those.

Throughout his time completing these 15 projects, Khou has experienced some questionable investing moments.

 

[19:34] In terms of financials, the worst one we did was probably our third project. So, we broke even on it, and it was a project that we bought. So, this is before we took the whole business thing seriously, and it was in our early days. We sort of just bought one thinking that's good value and ended up being able to build three on it. But we held on to it for, we did the project over four yours which is just for three unit site, probably double the length of time it should take.

 

[20:07] Really something that we didn't, to be honest we were quite lucky because we bought [it] almost as a test project to see whether we wanted to do developing and didn't lose any money on it but didn't really make any money on it. And it wasn't something at that time we took seriously. So, when I look back on it, it was probably quite lucky we didn't lose money on it. Because we just decided to build on it without too many numbers or anything like that.

 

[21:01] It was in these suburbs [of] Heidelberg Heights, in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. So, it's quite close to the city, probably 11km to 13km. So, we bought that because of that reason. Because it's a, at that time it was probably a lower socio economic area but quite close to the city.

 

[21:23] So, we thought there was good value in it and that was the reason that I bought it. To be honest, if we bought and sold it, we probably would have made quite a bit of money because of how the market changed over time. But it so happens that we decided to develop without any knowledge, which is why I say we were probably lucky and not one of the ones that decided to do or get into developing without the proper sort of knowledge and actually lose a lot of money.

 

From this experience, Khou took away a valuable lesson.

 

[22:08] So, basically off that one, we decided that we needed to get serious and actually seek out a mentor. So, we'd up to that point, we were sort of a, I guess you could call it a part time investor. We just wanted to be in the market because that was what everyone said we should be doing. So, we were actually part of a property programme called Results.

 

[22:39] And they were really good in terms of the goal setting and the foundations. But what we found with that programme was it was a very generalised programme in terms of you got taught a lot of things. So, we because of that, we tried to do a lot of things which is absolutely no fault of the programme itself. We didn't take the time to sit down and actually decide what we wanted to do. So, we said, okay, renos. We'll try development.

 

[23:13] We actually went to New Zealand and bought eight properties because we wanted to try it. So, from that point we sort of sat down. My brother [and] myself said, 'Okay, well developing is actually what we wanted to do'. What we thought we were good at — The project management side of it. We thought we're quite good at looking for deals, which we found good deals, we just didn't know how to execute them.

 

[23:33] So, we actually found a mentor and you may have heard [of] him. So, we went into a programme run by Troy Harris and that's sort of, when we joined that Troy looked at our portfolio and said, 'Guys, you need to get serious and get real, what are you trying to do?' We gave him our goals and we had reno's developing overseas investing. He just said, 'You're trying to do too much and if you've got enough money to try [and] invest in all these areas, then good luck. But if you want to focus on one of the areas, then you're probably going to have much more success'. So, that's when we sort of decided to get serious and just pursue developing itself.

 

Joining the program run by Troy Harris was when property development ‘clicked’ for Khou.

 

[1:10] When he asked for what our goals were out of our investing, i guess [our] career, he just put it on us and said, 'You're trying to do too much and I think you might waste your time trying to join in this programme and thinking you can pursue all these three, three sort of investing ventures or three or four, whatever it was at the time'. And that's when my brother must have actually thought, 'Actually, he's probably right'. Why are we trying to focus our time on all these different investing strategies when we should just be doing the one and trying to do it well? And that was the big sort of catalyst for us to move forward.

 

 

After this epiphany from working with Harris, Khou and his brother knew property development was what they wanted to do. He shares how they came to this decision.

[2:15] I think it was more the project management side of it. So, we were pretty confident we were good with the relationship side and getting things done. I mean, I've got a finance background [and] my brother's a cashier, he works in a bank but he's quite good with the networking and the relationship building. So, he was good at finding deals. And one of the aspects with developing is trying to get financed.

 

[2:48] So, I sort of had that covered in terms of understanding the numbers in there and just based off the projects we've done in the past, it was actually the one where we thought if we actually focused on it, we will get the best outcome or the financial outcome for us. Because we did the renos, we made a bit of money, but we thought it's not something we're passionate about or actually interested in getting our hands dirty and doing. So, I was really, it kind of just led to property development in the end. We just sort of knew that's what we wanted to do.

 

[3:57] We're extremely lucky because we've got a very, like we're very close in our normal personal lives. So, we were able to, I guess, compliment that relationship with that business relationship. So, we argue a lot, but we don't, it's nothing personal. So, I shouldn't have [said that] we argue a lot. We discuss and debate a lot. But we don't, but it's never anything personal. So, we've actually got a very good relationship like I, when it comes to the areas that I look after the financing sort of administration part of it, he doesn't question me. He's got full trust in what I do. And vice versa, like he looks for deals. We just have that trust with each other.

 

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Coming up after the break, we’ll explore the strategy that Khou used to achieve success…

 

[12:31] In terms of how we get it done, it's, I think it's from the years of the relationships.

We’ll hear about the resources that edged Khou into property development…

 

[2:38] For my birthday my brother actually bought me the infamous 0 to 130 properties in Three and a Half Years.

 

He will share the advice he would give to his younger self…

 

[24:39] I would say to him, get focused a lot more quickly.

And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

 

Behind balancing a full-time job and property development, it is important to develop a strategy that will aid you. Khou details his strategy and how it assists him.

 

[12:05] I would say this is not the optimum. Because I do have friends who are full-time developers and I could see that they could definitely get stuff done a lot more efficient than I can obviously, cause they got more time. So, in terms of how we get it done, it's, I think it's from the years of the relationships.

 

[12:39] So, we've built up sort of six [or] seven years of relationships of a few different builders, brokers, draftees, engineers. Where, to be honest, if I need to get a deal done, I'll just send him an email with the drawings or what I need done and they sort of action. But it, for anyone thinking that it's easy to do, it would take you a bit of time to get those relationships.

 

[13:11] So, if you think you can just work full-time and send an email out at lunch and expect an engineer to do your drawings or prioritise your drawings, that's probably not going to happen. But it's just the years of the relationships [that] were built and the quantity of work [we] have given back to some of these guys, or guys or girls, for them to, I guess, get that sort of priority.

Like in the early days of Khou’s journey, it is still a challenge to build these relationships.

 

[14:13] [It] definitely is a challenge or was a challenge in the earlier days. And to be honest, it still is a challenge in this market and especially, we're located in Melbourne and the Melbourne market has been very hot until probably the last six months. So, trying to get agents to respond and that sort of stuff was challenging. And there was obviously a lot of agents that came into the market. So [it] made finding deals difficult.

 

[14:44] So, we still have that challenge now, but in the earlier days, I should mention we did take a lot of time off to do it. So, in terms of [things] like leave and working from home days. Actually, I don't think people may not realise how big of a change it was for me to move careers as well to do this. So, the, as I touched on before, the planning role I have now was or is extremely flexible. And that was one of the reasons why I could do it. But obviously, I give up my accounting and finance career for that. So, you just have to find ways to get it done. Like if we took leave days. I mean, I had to change [the] sort of the profession I was in so I could do this.

 

Establishing these crucial relationships is not easy as it may appear.

 

[16:18] I know a lot of people have issues with trying to get builders. I know, if you ask some, some will say 'just grab a project and get a builder to quota'. And then when you get in, when you grab a set of plans to get a builder to quota, they sort of just thinking, you know, 'who are you? You just wasted, you [are] just another tire kicker wasting my time'. So, it's not as easy as some people say it is. But some of the consultants we did have to pay for their time. But we were quite open to the fact that if we had to pay a builder for his time, we would pay him.

 

[17:05] So, we weren't too concerned with, because I know a lot of that might be a bit of an obstacle for some people trying to get feedback and actually paying someone for advice that maybe they're not going to use at the moment. But we're quite liberal in terms of doing that and I can't remember any specifics. But if we, but I do recall, if we had a job, and we had a consultant we wanted to use, we would just give him the job without — I don't know if this is the best practice — Without getting two or three quotes as a solitary to do. And going back to that same person again, you know, to build that relationship.

 

[18:02] It is a tough one, developing. Because if you've never done one, and you're trying to get build costs and that, and people just say 'Well, just go ask a builder'. It is actually not as simple as that. And if you ask them three or four times,  they're just gonna ignore you if you don't give him a job. There's no easy answer for that and the only way we got around it was because we end up giving the builders we spoke to at the start a few jobs, and they end up taking you a bit more seriously.

 

Khou uses his established relationships throughout his process of developing a project.

 

[19:37] Like most developers, we would find a site. So, we develop, we try to develop close to home. So, I'm in the sort of Doncaster area at the moment of Melbourne. [It is a] box hill sort of area. So, we do deals from Manningham council down to sort of Maroondah, sort of Croydon, Ringwood where it's a little bit cheaper than sort of closer to the city.

 

[20:13] So, we'll [be] like anyone else, we'll just network of agents. We would buy most of our stuff off market, I would dare say. It's just like the relationships with consultants. We have relationships with agents, they sort of bring us deals, some good [and] some bad. So, [the] traditional process would be we would get the permits for the construction. We would, most of the time at the moment, we assess whether there's any value in selling with permits. And if not, then we'll engage an agent to start marketing the properties of the plan. And then obviously, once we've got our permits through council and all the working drawings, engineering’s and get the building permit, we'll engage and build and start construction. It's sort of the high level process.

 

[21:43] When the Melbourne market was hot, probably before the last six months, site for permits were selling quite high and people were paying [an] exorbitant price for the permit. So, it was just a checkpoint where we would just assess it to say, 'Well, if we built it [we] would obviously take finance risks [and] construction risk'.

 

[22:08] You know, how much profit would you make? Versus how much would we make if we just sold with the permits at the moment? Or even just selling with the land? Because the market moves so much during sort of the last two years. So yeah, just assessing the risk. Is it worth building for an extra bit of profit? Or is it better just to sell and move on to the next project?

 

For Khou, the amount of time between the purchase of a property and beginning of construction is dependent on funding options.

[23:25] With the projects we have currently, so if we're doing a three unit project, there is the ability to get funding. And this is just from our personal sort of financial circumstances. Other developers might have different ones. So, for three units we're able to get funding with no presales. But anything above [that] we're required to get, depending on the funding, 50% debt coverage or 100% debt coverage. So, you would require pre-sale. So, to be honest, a lot of it's just driven by the banks at the moment. All the finance is, yeah. So, if you know you need to get presales, the earlier you start the better.

 

With this strategy in place, Khou is able to work in property full-time but with part-time hours.

 

[26:20] I would actually set the number of projects we do. So, we would do three to four projects. So, for the last couple years, we'll do three to four projects per annum and that's constructing or selling with permits, or just making a deal of any sort of property kind. So, what actually, although we're not doing full time hours, we think we've got enough deals that it would cover us for full time employment.

 

When making a property development investment, although Khou has no minimum requirement for a profit, he does have a goal target.

 

[27:19] When we [are] assessing a deal, when you just do sort of the raw numbers, and you know they're just draft numbers, we'd like to have sort of a minimum $250,000 in a deal. But obviously, things change in time, and you might reassess as the project goes on. And that changes, so it could be, so we've done a deal where we built three units in a suburb in Ringwald and that only netted us $150,000. But we bought, but we knew that going in because we bought the site with permits, they only took us sort of 15 months from buying to completion. So, short term deal, lower profit. So yeah, [it] just depend on the deal.

 

At the beginning of his property development journey, Khou had one hurdle that he needed to jump over.

 

[0:35] We always had, like most people, an interest in investing. But in our early days, we probably actually never took the time to actually focus on it properly. Like we were interested in it, but it was more of a part time interest as opposed to actually wanting to get our hands dirty in and actually, you know, sit down, look for deals [and] crunch numbers. Yeah, I think that's probably just the, I think we're just probably a bit more immature. And I'm not really ready for the actual try to focus on a goal and getting it done.

 

[1:32] I look back at [and] kind of wish I took [it] a bit more serious back then.

To help guide him on his journey, Khou turned to the help of books.

 

[2:22] The reason we actually got into property or one of the reasons why [is] it sort of peaked our interest. So, for my birthday my brother actually bought me the infamous 0 to 130 properties in Three and a Half Years that had, you know Steve McKnight and Dave Bradley in it. So, we always had an interest in business so that book was probably the one that sort of thought, 'Oh, well, this is quite interesting'. And the things that you can actually do with property as opposed to just buy and hold.

 

[3:00] So, that was probably the first resource that we had that sort of got us into the property investing sort of area. I guess all the other books that most people have touched on [are] the Robert Kiyosaki books as well.

 

As well as having books to guide him, Khou has also had guidance from his mentors.

 

[24:52] I'm a big advocate of having a mentor, even if it does cost you a bit of money. It's just, I think some people get mentors without actually having sat down and thought about what they want to do. I think that's when you can waste a bit of money.

 

[0:19] If you're focused and you know actually what you want to do, then you can seek out a mentor in that area of expertise. But I think where people run into issues is, I think, when they get a mentor and they're not decided on actually wanting to pursue a particular skill set. That's when you can sort of waste a bit of money. 

 

[3:22] So, we've had, as I mentioned, we were part of Results and that sort of gave us a good foundation on goal setting and that.

 

[3:29] So, we've had Troy Harris that really, he's the one that taught us how to develop in terms of the process and the timing on really how to get the best and highest best use of a site and maximise the financial gains from the project. So, we've also been lucky enough to have Dave Bradley as our mentor. So, he's not so much about developing itself. He was more around sort of their business mindset on how to grow the business. So yeah, so we've been fairly lucky. [It has] come in at an expense but I think ourselves we're quite, quite lucky.

 

From all of his mentors, Khou has received priceless advice which has helped to build his success.

 

[4:59] The best piece of advice we got from Troy was the focus one. The really just focus on the one thing we wanted to do and do that well. So, when I look back and I think about [it] —I still keep in contact with Troy — But when I actually think about Troy himself and what he's taught us, that's the thing that stands out the most. I think with teachings and developing itself, I think it's the process itself is not difficult to understand. Obviously the, getting through the processes are a challenge with counsel on there.

 

[5:34] So, that education part of it, I think you'll pick [it] up but the actual mindset, like you touched on, and the focusing is sort of what stands out when I think about Troy, and he’s sort of teachings to us.

 

[5:49] And if I was to think about Dave, the thing that he always bangs on to us about is, we can always go harder. So, if we take a position on the market, we should take action on our position and just do as much as you can.

 

[6:24] We approached Dave to mentor us because we wanted to grow our business. And we wanted to, I mean, we knew how to develop. We've done a few successful development deals, but we said you know, what is the next steps? We don't know. Like, what do we need to do to become a proficient full-time investor over the next, so develop over the next 20 [or] 30 years? And he said, 'Well, you're doing two deals at the moment, you need to do five. You need to look on how to do 10 deals, or 15 deals’.

 

[6:58] It doesn't, the numbers itself doesn't matter but it's what you want to achieve in your goals. And if you want to make this a success, then you need to go hard and do as much as you can. So, it's not so much the market itself. It's just sort of stretching yourselves and your capacity on what you can do in number of projects [and the] size of projects.

 

Dave Bradley taught Khou the importance of getting outside of his comfort zone.

 

[8:48] My brother [and] myself sort of push each other. So, I think, you know, when you go through tougher periods where you kind of just have that feeling that you're not doing enough, I think because I've got a business partner, who's my brother, we'd sort of just keep ourselves accountable for our goals. And because we've sort of got things churning pretty well, even when we're not going hard enough per se, we've got stuff moving along that we can tick off each day just to keep the wheels in motion.

 

[9:26] And then when things sort of get a bit slap, [I] sort of think, 'Well, what do we do now? Do we? Do we look for another project? Do we get more funding?' Yeah. Just looking at sort of working on the business as opposed to in the business.

 

As for Khou, he has some advice for his younger self and others at the beginning of their journey.

 

[24:39] I would say to him, get focused a lot more quickly. And get focused and sort out what you want to do. And stop procrastinating, because I'm by writes, quite a lazy person.

 

 

He has some personal habits that have aided him along his path to success.

 

[9:59] I don't know if this is a good or bad one. So, I'm quite pedantic in returning phone calls and answering all my emails, even if I have to stay up late at night. But that's probably, so there's that saying — If you try to do something every day towards your goals, that's sort of what I base it on. So, there's something that needs to be done, especially if I'm holding up a process, I absolutely hate that. So, just respond to your consultants, make that phone call [and] just take action.

 

[11:04] It can be a bit of a catch 22. Sometimes I get too into the detail [of] doing stuff, that I think I need to look at the bigger picture and see where the business is going. So, that's I guess that's the downside of having that sort of addiction to getting my property stuff done.

                                                                

 **OUTRO**

 

Thank you to Sunhoc Khou, our guest on this episode of Property Investory.