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Amazon E-com Listing Optimization Hacks with Tomer David - Part 1
April 6, 2021
Amazon E-com Listing Optimization Hacks with Tomer David - Part 1 Part 1 Part 2
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Things we mention in this session of Seller Round Table:

[00:00:01] spk_1: Welcome to the seller Roundtable, E commerce, coaching and business strategies with and er not and Amy Wiis. Mm. [00:00:11] spk_0: And I think that we're alive. Zoom always takes a minute or so. Hey, everybody. Yeah. Hey, everybody, what's up? I'm hanging out with my friend. Tell me where he is. Awesome. And we are going to just share with you guys are both of our listening optimization like hacks and techniques. I talked with the mayor of the other day and we were just hanging out, and I learned that he's as much of a nerd about these things as I am. So we were like, Hey, let's just hang out and share and you go back and forth on our favorite listening optimization techniques. Um, and so yeah. So, anyway, you guys know who I am, but maybe you don't know who to merez. So tomorrow take a minute and tell everybody about you. [00:00:58] spk_1: Sure. So I am an Amazon eBay seller. I have two brands, uh, seven figure brands. I started this like, two years ago. Before that, I had a background in e commerce to so p p. C. And the e commerce in general was kind of natural to me. I really enjoy listing optimization, conversion rate, optimization, tips and hacks. This is something that I feel that if you it doesn't really require a lot of resources to get to change the bottom line. Basically, you could get, like photos and change everything, but sometimes just changing the copy could get your listing ranked or get higher conversion rates. So, um, last time, yeah, we talked about, like, writing your own listings, I at the beginning just like, you know, my first listening. I wrote it myself and had really good results. Um, and I know that many new sellers when they, you know, start the outsource This I know that you offer services to for listing optimization, but I myself like to write it myself because I feel that the process of writing a good listing really starts with caring and giving enough attention to the audience and all these tips. And when you answer it to someone, um, they don't really have enough time or giving it enough attention as you would put in your only thing in your own product. And even if you have two hours, we talked about this the other day. Even if you're out of this, you have to check the work of the copywriter. And that takes time Because you need to basically reverse, like the whole process that they did. And, you know, it takes a lot of times. So I write my listings. I get really, really good conversion. I asked you before. They called. What is your best, uh, conversion rate in your you ever had? Um, but I I think that people like, don't really check this regularly, but you have to be on top of your numbers. Know what is your conversion rates for a listing like, uh, immediately. Like, if I ask you why you can say oh, between 20 or 30. Because if you're not on top of this, uh, then you can miss an opportunity that some something happened, like with time or or things like, let's say, a new list thing that you just launched. And you you see that the conversion rate is very low that you know, you you have some job to do with the copyrighting or the listing itself. Sometimes, of course, it's not just the copy. It's also the, you know, the the actual traffic that you get. It's not just the copy. Um, and of course, the images. So, yeah, I really enjoyed, uh, you know, doing the entire like, uh, like, selling on Amazon. I think that the flexibility and the freedom and also as far as numbers, you could scale this too. Really unmanageable, like numbers. Uh, that in traditional business or no, Normally, commerce stores, it will be very hard. And take a lot of time I have experienced for that. We had the seven, uh, mid seven figures business with our own website, and it was hard. We spend millions of dollars every year just for marketing. Um, I'm not saying that you won't spend it on Amazon, but, um, this it's much easier because you have all this audience, the platform and all the tools. Yeah, [00:04:18] spk_0: I would agree. Like in terms of, of course, I write listings for people, but I take it very seriously because I think no one can. Well, I don't just think I know no one can sell your product better than you. And selling is all about connecting with the customer and knowing what the customer wants. And so the foundation of listing optimization is actually knowing your customer. And so you know, I have a listing optimization master class, and the first class is all about finding your main keyword. And your main keyword is so, so, so important because that you can't write a listing the way that searches and optimization works. You can't write a listing to rank for everything. You have to be the most relevant for the keyword that you want to be on page one for right. So if you want to be on page one organically for a specific keyword, you need to be the most relevant. So if you take this product and then you're like Okay, well, it's a water bottle for bikers or for cyclists, right? But I also wanted to be a water, a teeth, a tea cup. I also wanted to be a coffee mug. You're never going to rank for all that, not organically, and you're not going to connect with the customer because the coffee drinker is a different customer than the guy who's buying a water bottle for his bicycle. Right? So it's so important, like the foundation of listening optimization is understanding where you want to be on the page and what page that is, and then also understanding your buyers. So my first step whenever I'm writing a new listing is I think about it from the customer's perspective. I go Okay, what is the customer call this thing? And even if I'm writing a listing for a customer, I do the same thing. I have my clients fill out forms and I say, What's different about your product? Why should I buy it instead of another product? What's cool about it? Who is your customer? What's included with it? I get all those details so that I can do a good job of really researching the customer. But Step one is knowing what does the customer call it and where do you want to be on page one? And you don't want to pick a short tail, keyword. You don't want to pick water bottle. You want to pick green water bottle for cyclists like you want a very specific medium to long tail keyword with that short tail keyword inside of it so that you can ring for both at the same time. What about you tomorrow? How do you start your listing optimization process when you're writing a listing. What? How do you do that? [00:07:10] spk_1: I do it a little different. I actually had a question and then you you mentioned that you're going to include the like a two keywords search term within the big, long tail keywords so you can rank for both. But yes, actually, how you treat it like, you know, at the beginning, when you launch, obviously you want to go for, you know, the biggest killers out there until you get enough cells ranking and your B S R is good enough. But then down the world, do you change it? Do you go after bigger like keywords and you target bigger keywords? Um, yeah, like that. That's my question, because I normally don't really change it, but [00:07:48] spk_0: for me, it depends. So I tell everyone this because, you know, if you make significant changes to your listing, you will force a full re index of the search engine and you'll lose all the ranking that you had for an indexing that you had for all those other keywords. Now, if you add in and I've tested this extensively, if you add in keywords to your listing. So let's say maybe you started out with 200 characters in your bullet points, right and you're pretty short. They're pretty good. You know. I always aim for 2 to 3 phrases in each bullet point and then in the description and in the title right. So stick to those 2 to 300 characters so that let's say that a new key word kind of comes out in your PPC and your PPC is not performing so well. You're not getting premium placement for that keyword because your listing isn't super relevant for it because PPC goes off relevancy first, then match type, then your bid. So a lot of people think, Well, I just If I just bid the most well, then I'm going to be able to be at the top of the page for that keyword. But that's not true. You really need to be the most relevant for that keyword. If you're wanting top of page placement as well as your bid and match type, right, if you're doing exact match and your bidding high, so in terms of changing it, it always depends on the performance of the listing. If a listing is performing really well and a client comes to me and goes, I want you to change everything up. I said, Wait a minute. You're doing really, really well. Do you really want to force the re index and lose all the work you did on PPC? Because not only will you index for the stuff in your listing, you're also over time going to index for whatever bids you want on PPC. What organic search from off of Amazon that comes on Amazon. Those search find by terms that come in and kind of. That's why Amazon moves you around in categories sometimes because customers will find you differently and have clients all the time. They're like, What the heck? I created my listing in this category, and now I'm in this category and Amazon won't change it. Well, the reason is because they categorize you based on how customers are finding you in search. So, yeah, to answer your question, that was a really long winded answer. I know, but I don't change it unless unless it's if it's not doing well And we got nothing to lose, then heck yeah, let's rewrite that sucker all day long or if it becomes a really saturated category like I have a client right now. Her listing just became really, really saturated. She was first to market with a popular product, and now it's like tons of Chinese sellers like really low prices. And so her main keyword. It's not as attractive anymore. And we were on a call the other day and I was like, Okay, what else could we call it? And we went, We searched around and we found so many other cool keywords, um, that we could that none of the competitors were on because everybody else focuses on that one key word like, Oh, it's a diaper bag. Well, what if it isn't a dagger bag? What if you call it something else and now you get to sell out in that category because you're really, you know, kind of rebranding your listing. So that's my answer if I want to include, If it's listing is doing really well and I want to include those additional keywords, I'll add it in the back end of the listing, or just add it into the description, or add it into a bullet point where I have space where it's not going to force to re index. [00:11:24] spk_1: Yeah, I also like with good converting listing. I'm like, you know, I'm always, you know, striving to be better and improve the listings and improve my business. But sometimes when something works well and you try to really, like, optimize it like it could you could over optimize it and actually, like, get worse results. Uh, so, yeah, when? When you have, like, above 30. 35. Uh, you know, percent conversion rate. Um, [00:11:53] spk_0: I I [00:11:54] spk_1: want to really touch the listing. [00:11:56] spk_0: Yes, that's that's amazing. Yeah. Sorry. My cat was just in here. She was, [00:12:03] spk_1: like, [00:12:04] spk_0: yelling and trying to get out. So my assistant just let her out. But anyway, I didn't want everyone to hear this cat like now, but, yeah, I'm with you there. So, uh, create [00:12:18] spk_1: how I start, uh, the process of creating listings. I do it a little different. So I first, you know, search for the main keyword like, for that product, and then just go with analyzing the competitors to Ben Analytics or cerebro. See what keywords are ranked for organically how they get their Selves organically and, you know, obviously trying to find the main cured that I think is the most relevant and the temp like good enough volume and start from there. Like there. When I have the key word and I have the competitor's product, I started to analyze reviews. That's the first thing that I am doing. Really downloading through the helium tend to all the reviews to excel. [00:13:02] spk_0: Uh, [00:13:03] spk_1: first, I checked the 3 to 4 stars reviews. Then I checked the 12 stars and and, of course, the five stars and I started to incorporate the same customer language in my bullets. I don't really look at it. I'm not really stuffing cures into my listings. Uh, like the bullets. I'm sorry. I just try to use the customer language. It works for me really well. And I have between 30 to 50% conversion rate, which is [00:13:30] spk_0: like, uh, [00:13:31] spk_1: in my opinion, it's good results. [00:13:34] spk_0: I like that. Yeah, that's really good. So something about that you said about that? So the reason that I do it the opposite way that I go on Amazon and I search for the product first is because I also use keyword tools and I also reverse search my competitors. But what happens is a competitor might be ranked for a keyword that is not in Amazon suggested search box. And I've been able to get on page one for those top suggested searches simply by being the most relevant for them. And so I use this tool by seller S E O called listing lightning. And what I do is I put I find out whatever that top keyword is. So first I go in and I'm like, Okay, what what page on Amazon Based on search results? Because that's how customers search, right. They start typing something in and they look at the suggestions and then they pick whatever it is they're not going to finish typing it. Very rarely do you see, you know, except for you know, you got the hunter peckers on the desktop that don't look up and see that their suggestions there right? But I know to where and I both have a background in playing on the keyboard with the cyber Security's. So you know, he's laughing at my at my talk about making fun of people on the keyboard. But anyway, most of the time, people use those suggested searches. And so what happens is, if you're only using and I've rewritten hundreds of listings that have been written with these tools that are not ranking organically, and that's what I'm finding is. The main problem is they've only looked at keywords from keyword tools, and they don't look at Amazon's key words to start with and then plug those keywords into the tools and rank ordered those because I want your listening to B on page one for one of Amazon's suggested searches that is most relevant to you. So that's why I always start by searching for it as if I'm the customer trying to find it. Then I take those keywords and I put them into the tools Right. Then I look at I'll reverse search competitors and see what they're doing, right, like Okay, what are they ranking for? That fits in with my plan over here, right? And so that's the only reason I do that is because that critical mistake could be made. I've been able to take people's listings, and even when they're ranked very, um, low or you know they will be like in third or fourth place organically on the page just because we've written their listing to be the most relevant for that keyword. And I think that that's a huge missed opportunity that a lot of people aren't doing, which I'm not mad at them about, because that just means that I can beat them in organic search. [00:16:18] spk_1: Yeah, I you know, like I said, when something works for you, you don't really change it. But, you know, I like always to test new things because I'm coming from a point that I don't really know enough And people out there, uh, everyone could teach me. And I always try to test things like today. I started an experiment, Um, and so I'm not gonna talk about it. But you know what? I'm going to share it with you. Um, it's experiments on ranking your listings on organically with, you know, and Google, not with the pay debt and why it's so important when you send traffic to Amazon. True pay that they don't really show the referral. They don't show that the traffic sources google. If you will analyze the click, there are ways you could use developer tools and some other tools to see like the full referral, and they don't really share the referral the same with Facebook. If you run ads through Facebook directly to your listings, they will not show the referral and why it's so important the referral because we want Amazon to know and understand that this traffic came from Google. Specifically. Why? Because they're a couple of guys that did the research. And thats find that when you get this traffic, uh, directly from Google Organic, it really changed your organic rankings on Amazon. So what I'm doing is experiments of like, uh, creating a link building profile for one of my listing. Uh, it's like $2000 for the first month. It's not cheap, but if it's gonna work, it's gonna really be a game changer, uh, in the entire Amazon industry, I think because people will pay more and more attention to organic rankings that you have, and that could be really the unfair advantage that you have over your competitors, and you will look at the big sellers or people that know what they're doing. They will just use it as a leverage, big leverage. Obviously, it's a long term. It's not something that you like PPC you do it like right away and you see the results. It would take 34 months to even, um see the results of this experience we start today, but only in three months I will know whether it's working or not. And if it is, then I will allocate enough big budgets towards this, but only two products that are working well, products that are, you know, already making a lot of money. And you just want to make sure that you stick, you're gonna be like, dominating the niche, and you're going to be the leader. So you can invest in this and and obviously add more products and create more organic present. So that's something that [00:18:53] spk_0: I love that technique. I use Google like crazy because Andy taught me all about Google ads and how to really how to really rink well that way. And, um, 60%. [00:19:07] spk_1: That's organically, which is as different. [00:19:09] spk_0: No, no, I agree. But 60% of Amazon's external traffic comes from search, so that's why it's important. So same thing when we do our keyword research when I teach people how to do your keyword research for your listing. We also we don't just look on Amazon. We also write our listings to rank organically on Google, and it's so, so important. Even your title and setting your canonical u. R L is so important because that's how search engines find you and you're missing out on all these hundreds of thousands of searches. And what do searches represent? They represent the opportunity for your listing not only to rank because external traffic, organic external traffic driving to your listing, but also for you to be found. You know so many people go on Google and search for a product, right? And if you're listening, can be not only relevant for Amazon but also relevant in Google searches. And you understand that customer It's so, so powerful. So I love that, like 100% I always write my listings not only to rank on Amazon, but also to rank organically on Google. And then, of course, I use the power of Google ads on top of that two, and we just use search ads, right? But I use that power to kind of boost that even further and get those additional keyword rankings over time so I'm excited to hear how that goes. I also love what you said about. So let's get into bullet points. Um, you talked about how, When you write your bullet points, this is step two of mine. Well, actually, step Step two of my is really identify My listing writing process is really identifying what your unique selling proposition is. So step one for me is find your main keyword. What do people call this thing? And Step two is always What is your selling point like, What are you even if you're selling the same thing as everybody else's? How are you going to connect with that customer on a deeper level? So I love that you're looking at reviews because you're seeing you're not just looking at a few reviews. You're you're being through a lot of reviews because you're seeing what people care about, like you're seeing what they're complaining about, what they care about your understanding, their language, which I think is so cool. But my second step is always defining my unique selling point, because I want to make sure that the customer from the point they read my first bullet point and they looked through my photos, which again, the photos are also designed to really call out that unique selling point. Um, I want that customer to already have decided they're buying that product by the time they get to the end of the photos. So that, to me, is the second thing that you have to do. Because if you don't, if you don't think through that if you don't know your unique selling point before you move through the rest of your process, you get stuck. Just trying to talk about features, features, features, features all day long, right? And customers don't care about features. They want to know why. Why do I care about this product and why should I buy it? So that's my second step, and then I get into bullet points, and this is the key for my bullet points. I love that you told me to go in and you read the reviews. I think that's a super tip for people. It's awesome. I love that. What I do is, I don't think about S e. O. When it comes to my bullet points, I just write them. I use a template. I have a template for writing them. That's very like sales funnel like. And my first bullet point is always why you need this product in your life like this is you let them [00:22:48] spk_1: play with us. [00:22:50] spk_0: Yeah, sure, Why not? You know, I've talked about this at a ton of different conferences, everything like that. But it's really easy. You guys can do it yourself. And if you use Google docs, what's cool about Google documents is you click on the tools menu and you click on voice typing, and you can just answer these five questions. And these five questions are the questions that I answer that become my bullet points. I don't add an S e o the other keywords until after I draft the listing, because I want to know what does the customer care about, right? So that way I'm not just keyword stuffing. If you just have this big list of keywords and you're trying to fit all these keywords into your listing, it's not gonna come out very well. It's not gonna, [00:23:33] spk_1: but with my titles are like just a bunch of key words together, and I know everyone against this, but this works at the beginning I just, like, wrote it naturally, like someone is reading it, but they feel that people don't really read it. They look at the talent and then the first three or four words, that's it. So I use it as a way to just stuff here where the bullets are different and images. I have something that I want to share about. What you said before, I'll say, Yeah, [00:24:02] spk_0: we didn't we didn't really talk about titles. I also do that with my title. I have a certain format that I used to make sure that my canonical you are I'll get set. I only use one dash and my title because that's what sets your canonical u R l um, and I want those first six keywords to be what is said in the canonical You are also the first six key words of my title is really, really important to me, and it's the most. It is the page one that I want to be on. So Page one, if the page one I want to be on is, um you know, uh, water bottles for cyclists like water bottles is always my example, because there's always one on my desk. But you know, if that's if that's what, then that's going to be my first six keywords period. And then after that I try and I use my tool because cell rscos listing lightning gives me the exact order that I should use my phrases in for me to rank the highest organically for that main keyword. So then I look at what the rank order of those phrases, and I try to apply it like Okay, which one is? First of all, it has to be relevant, right, because sometimes the tool will spit out stuff that isn't relevant. So I use that for back in keywords but isn't isn't relevant to my listening but is still relevant to the main search term. So I look at those and I kind of do what you do, like I ring and order them, and it's kind of a messy title. But it works, and then because that's your highest ranking factor and then I do my five bullets. I just draft my five bullet points. The other thing I do is once I know that I want to be on page one for whatever keyword I'll pull a couple of the titles that are doing really well in that page. Um, I'll pull a couple of their titles and just put them in my document and just look at like, Hey, okay, yeah, that's true. That's good. I'm gonna pull that out and Oh, that's good, you know, and I just kind of pull out like parts and pieces. And then I look at my tool and make sure that I have all my ranking keywords and then I get into once I know that my title is like fire and it's awesome. Then I go through in my mindset and I go, Okay, now let me just get into, like, the customers brain and let me just write five awesome bullet points and I revisit any time in those bullet points. I say this thing, this water bottle is amazing. Whatever I'm saying, like whenever I say water bottle, then I just want to go back through those five bullet points, and I add in those 2 to 3 keyword phrases. Every time I say the word, I just replace it with one of the phrases and that makes it very easy, and your listing stays super readable without seeming like it's like super keyword stuffed. [00:26:37] spk_1: Does [00:26:38] spk_0: that make sense? [00:26:40] spk_1: It makes sense. And, you know, I I'm not I don't really offer any services or listing, uh, optimizations or anything like that, so I don't really have a process. But one thing I I'm gonna take from this conversation is to build my template, you know, work with the checklist. I kind of have a process, but it's not really written. And and sometimes I miss things. When you say something about the bullets, I figure out that, you know, at first when I started to sell on Amazon, I did put a lot of emphasis on the unique the U. S. B. And now I don't really do it that much. You know, sometimes you just do something and you forget about it because you don't have a system and process. So one thing I'm gonna for sure do is like make my my process, you know, more optimized like with checklist of things that I need to do. So I want to forget it because you reminded me that I have to really put more attention toward the U. S. B in the first bullet. No, as far as research, you mentioned that you go and check the other tiles. And and for that I do have a process. So usually when I have a new listing, a new product, that we lunch, I give it to my one of my VHS and what she's doing, she's going. I give her the key word and she go, And she grabbed all the images of the first page, including the You know, all their images, each listing seven images. So I have a bunch of like 100 or 300 I don't know, like many, many pictures of page one from all the competitors. This is helping me with producing the pictures because I feel these days the bullets are important. But people, many people don't really read them. They don't get to the point that they read them. Amazon buyers are very impulsive. They come, they searched by, you know, they don't really think if the pictures, uh, in line with what they're looking for, they will buy. You're [00:28:32] spk_0: going to You're going to love it because I have a strategy for pictures to, but it's very different, so I love that you're pulling all the main photos. I do that for Maine photos because I want to look at what they're doing. But I use my five bullet points because you're right. Nobody reads the listing. I always tell people that nobody reads. Listing The only time you're going to scan your listing is after they've looked through your photos and they have decided that they want to buy your product and they go, Oh, maybe I have one extra question. I mean, I just want to look a little bit more before I add to cart. But if they get through your photos and they have not already decided to buy your product, they are not going to even they're Yeah, they're moving on. So I do. Just so I want to stop and just say hello to people that are watching Christina's here. Marinas here. Shelly's here. Honest says this is great. Shelly says, Amy, what are the tools you just mentioned to capture Amazon suggested keyword. So, um, Shelly, you're gonna love this. The search bar, you go on Google, you check out the search bar, you go on Amazon, you check out, you start typing in the search bar and I always take screen captures of the search bar and Shelly, you're in my mastermind group. So we're doing that this month, and I'm showing you all of my techniques and giving you guys checklists and templates. So get in there, girl. All right, And then we've got Marina. Who says I also look at the question. People ask for the listings. Yes. Did you guys know that those questions index so you can have people go and ask questions on your listings? And now you can even do video responses? [00:30:08] spk_1: Yeah, yeah, I do that as well. So I answer with stuffing keywords in there because it's get index. Whether it's Google indexing or almost on indexing, you know it's going to help. Thanks for tuning in to part one of this episode. Join us every Tuesday at one PM, Pacific Standard time for live Q and A and bonus content after the recording at cellar round table dot com, sponsored by the ultimate software tool for Amazon Sales and Growth seller s c o dot com and amazing at home dot com