Eliminating the word 'should' with Sarah Elkins
January 8, 2021
How many things SHOULD you have done by now?
Get married, have 2.5 kids, have a white picket fence?
Who decided these standards and what we should do anyways?
Join us in this episode as we talk with Sarah Elkins about why she eliminated the word 'should' and how doing so brought value to her life.
How many things SHOULD you have done by now?
Get married, have 2.5 kids, have a white picket fence?
Who decided these standards and what we should do anyways?
Join us in this episode as we talk with Sarah Elkins about why she eliminated the word 'should' and how doing so brought value to her life.
About the guest:
If you are a leader or want to be one who is effective and inspiring, it is critical to tell personal stories that connect to the audience, stories that resonate with the people you want to inspire. Sarah guides leaders in improving their speaking, connecting with an audience of any size, and building the kind of brand ambassadors who will support the big ideas.
She is also the author of Your Stories Don't Define You. How You Tell Them Will.
[00:00:02] spk_0: this is This show is brought to
[00:00:05] spk_1: you by Safety FM. Welcome to unapologetically bold. I'm not sorry for If you are a person that is tired of apologizing for being you, you know the human part of you that sometimes feels like it has to be different at home versus work versus play. The human side that just wants to be hot, humble, open and transparent about your wants, desires and uniqueness. If you answered yes, this is for you. Join me, Emily Elrod as I dive into conversations with Amazing Guest. About what? That you're not sorry for and creative and loving ways. Let's get started. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another unapologetic Be bold I'm not sorry for. And I am so excited today to have a friend with May. Sarah. Sarah, Welcome.
[00:01:04] spk_0: Thank you. Well, my name's Sarah and I moved to Montana from Washington D. C. 21 years ago. And, um, in the last 20 years, I've learned how to help leaders and people who aspire to be leaders share the right stories at the right time to inspire others and connect more authentically and deeply building advocates and building people who want to help you live your best life,
[00:01:33] spk_1: E. I love it. And I love the part that you're talking about stories because that's a big thing on here is to be. What we say is, ah, hot human who is humble, open and transparent stories really connect. It's a connector that we can relate with others and also continue our mission of spreading humanity and being really and authentic with one another. So I'm excited for this conversation, and we love to just go ahead and dive on into it. So the show is called unapologetically bold. I'm gonna ask you, Sarah, what are you no longer apologizing for? I
[00:02:07] spk_0: am not apologizing for removing the word should from my vocabulary both in my internal dialogue and my external one.
[00:02:16] spk_1: Oh, I love it. And this, I think, is going to elicit a lot of great stories that come from it. When did you first realize that you have you needed to do this? Well, you know,
[00:02:28] spk_0: the first thing was when I read this article by my friend Susan Rooks that talked about mechanic that was shooting all over her, and basically, um, she had been going to this mechanic for a long time. And when she went after it had been too long between oil changes. He was giving her such a hard time. You should have done this 600 miles ago. You should do this. You should do that. And she walked away from this situation feeling really icky, you know, just like he was being condescending and just a little rude, I guess. And she never went back to him. And she had been going to this mechanic for a long time. And I read this article and I thought, Yes, I totally agree. You shouldn't should on people. And it was later that day I was talking to one of my sons who was a teenager at the time. And I said, Jacob, you should think about and I like I sucked that word right back into my mouth and went, Maybe consider, because should sounds so condescending. Well, the irony is that later that day I was in my room thinking about going to the gym, and the word should popped into my mouth or into my head. I thought I should go to the gym. And then it dawned on me that I was shooting on myself and and that changed. It changed everything for me.
[00:03:52] spk_1: And I think that's powerful, too, that what I've seen a lot of times of communication, internal and external is these preconceived expectations that we're putting on ourselves so fast. Forward to now. How has the power of not shooting on anybody or yourself impacted your life?
[00:04:18] spk_0: Well, the first thing that I can share is that I I still struggle every once in a while with should in my head because, you know, were raised with certain expectations. Obligations and guilt were just raised with that, no matter where were raised, and I still every once in a while, fight with that in my head. But here's what I dio every time now that I hear should in my head to myself. I make a decision, I think is this should mind. Does it actually belong to me or a sister showed that somebody else is putting on May? Is it my mother should Is it my neighbors should, um, and then the next question is OK. If it's not mine, I get to let it go. It's not mine anymore. My sister would say. That's not your baggage, leave it. And so you know, I imagine myself taking this this huge, heavy suitcase out of the trunk of my car and putting it on the sidewalk and driving away. That's not my should. I don't need to own it anymore. But if it's mine, that's when it really matters to me. That's when I decide. Either do it right now or don't do it. The Should just adds this layer of obligation to something, and nobody feels good about obligation. Nobody feels good about obligation, and so to me, if you think in terms of okay, it's mine. Either I'm going to go to the gym right now or I'm not going to go. And if I'm not going to go, I'm not going to feel guilty about it because it's mine. I own it
[00:05:54] spk_1: That is so powerful. So people that are listening in on that I just want you to understand there's so much power and owning your should, and I'm going to start using this, too, because I feel like those are things that I struggle with myself in the aspect of example today and it's just an example that I see that a lot of times people do is taking things that air sad that they should do or how they should feel or how they should think and bringing it as fax. And my son heard something on a cartoon. He's like it was that the thumb is your smartest part of your brain. And like, what? I didn't say what he analyzed it, and I think the important part of it is and this is what I told them. I am so proud of you because you looked at the validity of it and seeing if it's a actually valid to you and or if this fact is actually valid, and that's what I see with this should is it is a valid thought. Is it mine, or is it someone else's? So, for somebody that's hearing this for the first time, and 1 may be like me and like Oh, I can nerd out on this all day. But But hearing this and being like okay, so practical steps sounds easier said than done. What are some lessons that you have learned to help hold yourself accountable, to understand where should
[00:07:25] spk_0: really the external ones have been three easiest to remove. So when it comes to working with a coaching client, I have completely removed the word should for my vocabulary because I don't want to come across as if I know something that they don't know on dso I've removed that, and instead I've replaced that with something that is more meaningful. So, for instance, instead of saying you should try for a new job or you should leave your job, I might say, Have you thought about what it would mean to leave your job? What would that look like for you? What? What would be the replacement for that? And what would be the first step if you decided you wanted to do that? So if they're asking me for specific guidance, how how should I start this? I'll say, Well, if I were going to start it, this is what I would dio you, and that comes across completely differently than saying, You should do this first, and then you should you when? So in in some ways, especially with our young adult sons, who are now 19 and 22. Um, if I say you should do this, I see them just completely dismissed me. You can see it in their faces. So it's It's kind of like the word, but I love you. But you just completely took away that first part of the sentence that but just completely it negated the whole first part of the sentence because all they hear is the second half of it. The same thing happens with should assume, as you put the words should into the sentence they've shut you off because you're coming across as if you're telling them what to Dio. And very few people want to be told what to Dio and those who do don't want to hear it in that way. It s Oh, that's been my experience
[00:09:16] spk_1: that absolutely beautiful. And it makes me think of the work that I do with wellness and safety and is that command and compliance aspect that I have found to not be effective because I always say, you can't make me mayor run a marathon. I'm not gonna make you run like you should not say should and like demand people give them choice. And even in that, like it's an invitation for May and saying you should not let's have an invitation of a choice for others. Because if you've been on this podcast long enough, you all know that I'm gonna about to mention Desi and Ryan. Self determination theory, something I absolutely love. And it talks about competency, which is the knowledge need tohave it autonomy the freedom toe, have it and related this What I found specifically with free world countries like America. You tell him about somebody that they should do something we were going to the opposite way have been given voice. We're not a robot. So talk to people a minute about ways to reframe that in ways of like, you know that you said earlier. But some some additional steps that you have found like in your practice or in your personal life of eliminating should and effective ways.
[00:10:45] spk_0: Sure. Um I can really relate to your whole, um, bringing up compliance because I was a compliance officer for Major Federal Grant and I lived. I eat, slept, eat, sleep, breathe compliance for oh, about 2.5 years. And I found that the more I built relationships with the sub grantees, the less I had thio bring down a heavy hammer about compliance And I'm thinking of particularly one of our sub grantees who was struggling with doing the reporting that I was asking him to Dio. And instead of saying you should do this every day, I said, What is one way that I could help you make sure that this gets done every day? What offering them resource is, um, asking them what their ideas are can really change that whole dynamic. So in this case, I said I must have this information by every Friday at four o'clock. I must have this information in order to complete my reports so that our grant is compliant with our funders. What can I do to help make sure that you get your data to me in time? That's a totally different thing than me saying you should do this every day so that I get my data on time or you should try this. And I I could like I was so close to saying, you should try writing this down every day and then just send all of it to me on the same day. Or you can send it to me every single day if you want. You don't have to wait to the end of the week, and I almost said You should just send me this every day. But then I said, I know you have daily routines. We've already talked about some of your daily routines. What if we just added this to your daily routine? Mm, It is powerful. It is. What if we did this? What? What can I do to help you with a good strategy to make this work? And I do the same thing with our boys. Um, instead of saying you should clean your room, I say you can't find the tool that you wanted to use yesterday because your room is a mess. What can I do to help you get it cleaned up?
[00:13:04] spk_1: Mhm. And the thing is, burn a brown clearest kind, and I think that's huge that you're talking about two is it's not that you're eliminating should and then being what some people would say soft or a pushover, is it You are eliminating should not for a power play, but it's in the aspect of clear expectations of this is what is needed, and it goes to what I call the Socratic method and asking questions, letting the learner learn what it does and what will work for them. How powerful is that for your people? How have you seen that in the work that you do whenever they take ownership of it?
[00:13:55] spk_0: Well, one of my favorite situations was when I was helping a coaching client through, um, try to uncover specific story. So I had asked him about something that had happened and and it was at work. And he was talking about how, um, the person that was being abusive to him, This was in a job many years before, But it was still grading on him, and he was trying to uncover why it was still bothering him because it was a pivotal time in his career. So he said, Well, this this guy was just so rude to me, and I didn't know what to say. I said, I'll bet you have some ideas of what you would have said if you could have done it before I said, Yeah, I said, Well, we all do that right. 10 minutes later, or even a year later, like I should have said, Do you do that? He said, Yeah, and I said, Well, practice with me. He said, What do you mean? I said Pretend like I'm the guy and say what you should have said five years ago. What is in your head of what you think you should have said five years ago? So he said it out loud and I looked at him and I said, Did that work? Did it make you feel better? He said, Not really. I said Why? He said, Because I had been telling myself I should have said this all these years and now that I'm saying it out loud, I realized that was that would have been a stupid thing to say to him, E said, So you can let go of that should have. I should have said And he said, Yeah, I can let that go now
[00:15:29] spk_1: That's so powerful to in the aspect that we make things up in our mind and how those internal should can keep shooting themselves, like, almost almost makes me think of shooting yourself in the foot. But shooting yourself in the foot, you know, like yourself sabotaging and when you're away from the situation, sometimes it feels like you could make it bigger and worse than it originally Waas, and so that practicing of it brings it to reality and humanity. I think that's important to it as well. And that's why I guess when a note on real quick is the human side of it for people there like, this ain't gonna work. How could you help them understand that this is a part of humanity and that a lot of us probably wrestled with us?
[00:16:29] spk_0: Sure. Well, I like to use images. I'm all about analogies and stories to help us, um, really apply learning rather than just talk about it, because I'm I'm a very practical person. And I know that surprises people a lot because I'm a storyteller and a storytelling coach. I I help people uncover their stories. That doesn't sound really practical, but it is a very practical thing that I do when I'm working with my clients because it helps them connect with others. And so when I think about the power of removing, should I think about it as that image that my sister gave me so many years ago? It was when we were on the phone and I was pretty upset about something my mom had said to me, and it had been a should. She was saying, You should dio You should say, You know, it was all that obligation and frustrated and I was telling my sister about it. I was so frustrated. She said, Sarah, that's not your baggage because it was what I realized is I could imagine that this was coming from my mom's experience. It was very different from mine. And so she was speaking about her experience. She was projecting her experience on to me, and so when my sister said she she's the one that gave me this visual she said, Take that stuff out of your trunk and leave it on the sidewalk It's not yours, Bond. From that point forward, every time I think about should that belong to other people, that's what I imagined. Mm. And it's actually really easy to tell the difference between a should that's yours, and it showed that belongs to someone else. It is really easy, even when it comes down to your kids. Eso If you are your your kid is pretending to be sick. They don't want to go to school. It's pretending to be sick, and you think I should make him go to school? Whose is that? Who? That's all you like when you say I should make him go to school. That's not somebody else that should. That's that's your should. And so you have to. Despite in that moment, you have to make a decision that either you're going to make him go to school or you're not, and you're gonna live with the consequences. And I think that's the biggest thing. Is the consequences? Like what? What are the consequences of living with this shit?
[00:18:54] spk_1: MM. And it is because it can weigh you down talking about the baggage, it literally and how many people are walking around with other people's Bible that is not theirs because they have never even thought of this principle or there's never been an awareness to it and that you have a choice exactly. And so the choosing part. How would you help somebody understand that this is this is your choice? This is your should comparative to someone else's. I know that the I statements versus hearing. It's maybe Mom said I should maybe being able to tell the difference of those But what would you What would you say to that? What would you invite people to ponder?
[00:19:49] spk_0: You know, I love your unapologetically bold. I mean that that alone is kind of the answer to that question. My husband and I moved from Washington D. C. To Montana at least 1000 miles, maybe more from any of our nearest family number. And at first I was kind of sad about that because, you know, I wanted my boys to know their family, and I was concerned that they weren't going to know their aunts and uncles and cousins. We've made it happen, so they know them. And of course, with communication tools that we have now it hasn't really been a problem. There are times when I'm sad that my kids didn't get to know my mom and spend more time with her, but my family was all over the country anyway. But here's the thing. By moving so far away, I basically rid my life of face to face obligation. So yeah, and that's when I realized, just like, five years into it, I realized how grateful I waas that I was so far away that I didn't have the family obligations that I would have been facing if I was staying in the D C area bond. That's both sides of the family, not not just my husband's family, but both sides of my family. And it was when I had that realization of how much I enjoyed not having that obligation and how powerful it is in my relationships with those people that I'm choosing my relationships with them. Bond. That's the difference when you say choice. That's what I think about when, um when I see something that reminds me of my sister in law and I buy it and send it to her, that has nothing to do with obligation. And both of us know that eso when I do, when I take action, when I call her and catch up with her, show her pictures of our boys, Um, take her on a walk with me as I'm hiking. She lives out in northern Virginia, and I called her up and take her for a walk with me. Our relationship is so much stronger and so different then it would be if I only saw her when it came toe obligation.
[00:21:59] spk_1: Mm, yes, There's so many things that can I can see on my own self in that and the bitterness that can come because Dana, I have to do this. It's the right thing. I wanna people, please, especially somebody that suffers recovering a people pleasing e Think that goes to the know of whenever you eliminate the word should I do not see that it's selfishness. I see that it's selflessness and that you're putting people forward and your you're letting go of your ego and your understanding that you can love your best. You can be your best by owning yourself and loving yourself and putting those boundaries. Uh huh. So talk about that for a minute on how I know that you talked about your sister and how it strengthen your relationship. But I want you to dive a little bit more about how that has also strengthened, like maybe with your family, like your immediate family or a significant other
[00:23:04] spk_0: Well, let's I'm going to turn this around on you a little bit when somebody does something for you or shows up for you, and you know they're only doing it because they feel obligated to. How does that make you feel? Yeah, Vicki, right? He's only he's only here because he thinks he should be. He's only calling me because he thinks he has thio, that it's this obligation. And unless you ask, are you doing? And what are they going to say? Oh, no, of course not. I totally want to come and help you move. That seems really unlikely. So in my family, our Children, no, both of our boys know when I do something for them, it is absolutely because I want Thio because I used to, because I love them because I value them because I respect and admire them. It's not because I feel obligated to do it.
[00:23:58] spk_1: That's huge, especially for any parents, listeners or leaders listening to this as well. That is One thing I do want to know is it's without an agenda. It's without an obligation. I always joke with people that I don't joke, actually do it. But whenever I come and talk business four times before that, I want to get to know you, and the reason why I want to have four conversations to get to know you is because I want to know you like I truly want to come in without an agenda and just get to know the person. So if we do decide to do business, that Aiken touch and connect with them at a deeper level, comparative to giving, expect again obligations, expectations. And I tell my kids this all the time. The day that you start feeling like I should be doing something, it's probably gonna be removed for me. The reason why is I believe that's entitlement. And that's the thing that I cringe against whenever they feel like they're entitled to my responses and that there nothing no longer seeing it as something that I get to dio I want to do. I love to do Like I joked with you after this, me and the kids are going to go running puddles because we have big storm and we have a new area in our area that we could go play in puddles. It's not something that we should do is something that we get to do and how much more you cherish that moment and your mindful of those moments. Whenever you get you get to do something that you not out of obligation and I do wanna pop up a comment. As Kelly Blackmun said, There is a huge difference between choosing relationships and being obligated to be in them because absolutely there, that's a that's a huge point I do want to touch on real quickly is the obligation to be in them. I've found sometimes my example. I had a child out of wedlock. Many people told me I should marry the man that was, I had a child out of wedlock. How I would not be where I am today if I would have done that. I know that that if I was obligated to this person because of one action, and I think that's in the difference to is choosing those relationships and it's mine. I own it. My husband, who I am married to, is the most amazing man and some of the blessings you may forgo by thinking you should do stuff.
[00:26:47] spk_0: Yeah, and we can turn that around us. Well, Kelly, that is such a great point that the definition of your relationship shifts when it's out of obligation versus out of choice and there to situations that that just popped into my head. One is, um the obligation to be in a relationship with somebody in your family. So I have a friend who has a mother that is severely abusive to her, and she always has been. And this woman is in her thirties and her mother has done enough damage, and it she feels obligated to have a relationship with her mother because she's her mother and I get that. I totally understand that. There's a point, though, where you get to choose. And maybe you can't choose whether you have a relationship with your mom, because that's something that just feels so innate. Lee connected to you. But you do get to choose to set the boundaries on that relationship toe. Have the relationship on on your conditions and not on hers. So you don't get to be surprised by her abuse because you've known it all along. But if you're choosing to have relationship with her, you get to choose the circumstances and how that happens. The other side of that was when our boys were really little. They were like I don't know, three and five years old, and my husband had to leave town for five weeks. He was gone for Ah week came back for four days and then traveled all the way to Afghanistan and Indonesia for four more weeks. So he was gone for almost five weeks in a row. And I remember those first few days of being a single parent to two toddlers and working part time, and I was exhausted like I was so fatigued. Just getting them into bed was an ordeal. And then, of course, I'd have to go downstairs and do some more work or finished cleaning the kitchen or have a glass of wine and read my book, whatever it was. And then we'd get up and start all over again, and I remember just being so exhausted. But after three or four days, we got into a routine. We we figured out how to make this work for the three of us and the dogs, and we did find it was still exhausting. I had a huge respect and admiration for people who do this on their own forever. I I mean, just these weeks in a row were exhausting, so I I could finally kind of wrap my head around what that looked like permanently, but I didnt have thio. So my husband comes home and I have this wonderful dinner set up, and we're all trying to readjust to our schedules which anyone who's had a military partner deployed and come back. You know what I mean by having to readjust and and find a new routine again, which is the struggle. So we're sitting at dinner and we're all laughing, telling jokes, whatever is going on. And I looked at my husband and I said, You know, I really missed you. And the boys were like, You know, now they're going to kiss again. But I said, no. I really missed you. And I said, But the most important thing about this was that I missed you because I miss your company. I missed you being around. I didn't feel like I needed you. Mm hmm. And of course, my husband His first response. And I don't know if you go with these personality things, but he's a cancer. And so his first response was What do you mean you don't need May that 00 that wasn't right. But then he realized what I was saying. That I that I choose him that I'm with him because I choose him, not because I need him. And I remember having this conversation in front of our boys. And then many years later, one of them had a girlfriend and they were talking about that at the dinner table at our dinner table when my younger son said, Yeah, it's really important to choose the person, not to need the person
[00:30:40] spk_1: that is very powerful in the aspect that not only did you give him confidence and oh, man, that is, and I know that the impact. So people that are here in this or like okay, I think she's trying like advanced May on. Then what would you tell people that are apologizing for eliminating the word Should
[00:31:12] spk_0: I would tell you I would suggest that when you eliminate the word should and you stop apologizing for it, it will strengthen your relationships. It will strengthen your relationship with you being able to beam or intentional about the decisions you're making and the choices you make. And it will benefit your relationship with others because when they know you're choosing you and you're choosing them in your words, in your language, in your actions, your relationships improve
[00:31:46] spk_1: so true. And we have another comment. How do you address has two versus choose to when the people around you are not emotionally healthy? This is a big one. I've told people that I choose their company versus needing it and many folks were offended. And just like you said in your conversation, your husband, I will say for me before I'm a cancer as well. And it's that need that want the desire like you want. And also my love language is words of affirmation. So I really want you to tell me how much you need. Uh, but the thing is, is the choice behind it. So I do want to go to this app. How do you help people understand when they're not at possibly the maturity or the emotional healthy as others?
[00:32:34] spk_0: Well, I can tell you that when I said that to my husband and I noticed I had insulted him, the first thing I did was I said, if I needed you, our relationship wouldn't last. Yeah, it would only last a long is that need lasted. But the difference is that I choose you and I choose you every day, even when it's hard. Even when you make me angry, I choose you every day, and that's a much more. That's a much stronger relationship than need.
[00:33:10] spk_1: That is a fact. I will say that is 100% a fact in the aspect that you again get the choice in that love and you get to grow it and it is no longer okay. Basically, I think back was that symbiotic relationship. It is one where you get to choose. It's not that you need each other to survive, because we've all probably seen relationships where that's happened. And at some point both of them were so drained from giving and needing so much that is just
[00:33:48] spk_0: implode. It implodes. And Kelly, I really appreciate that question so much, Um, when you have to explain that you're choosing them over needing them. I think one of the important aspects is to say, um Thio address that need what we all want to be needed. We all want to be needed, but that's not necessarily the healthiest way to have a relationship. E think that's why some people end up being so hyper absorbed in their Children's lives is because they love being needed. And then there's a point, just like in every relationship where that needs starts toe Wayne and they start to demonstrate their own independence, their own thought, their own ideas of what they want to dio. You see your Children going through this, and it's really hard to separate that because you want them to need you. Bond. Every healthy relationship requires you to be able to set that aside to not to be needed. My mom When when our younger son went to kindergarten, I walked him across the street to the kindergarten and he took off. He never even turned to look at May. He didn't kiss me goodbye. He just ran to his friends to go play. This is the first day of kindergarten, first day of school, and I was anticipating him, turning around and hugging and kissing me and saying goodbye. Of course, maybe even some tears. None of that happened, and I was a little offended and very, very sad, and I will never forget. I turned around across the street so he wouldn't see the tears dribbling down my face, and I'm not a crier, so he would have known something was wrong. I turned my back to him and I walked back over and I called my mom and I just started bawling. Mom, he didn't even kiss me goodbye. And you know her first word? She said, Good job, Mom.
[00:35:46] spk_1: Yes. You gave confidence to your kid. You gave safety and security to your kid. They didn't need you.
[00:35:54] spk_0: Exactly. You raise your Children to be independent, to contribute to society. Toe have their own lives. You don't raise them to be dependent on you. That is green for any relationship.
[00:36:07] spk_1: So good. And somebody said this to me before and it took me aback of the first time. She said, Thank you for raising your Children as if they were contributing members of society instead of a pet.
[00:36:22] spk_0: No, I've heard that before.
[00:36:25] spk_1: And I'm like
[00:36:26] spk_0: what people raise them as a pet crazy.
[00:36:31] spk_1: But the thing is, is that how we do that is that the dogs need us. They have toe, have us. They have to have us to survive and to live. That's not how humans are made. And so that really stuck with May is raising my kids as contributing members of society instead of a stimulus response, and in that they need my stimulus for them to know what response? Tohave. And so I I am just so blessed from this conversation. I believe this is something that will really impact people. Hopefully, somebody I know somebody has had to get something from this because I know I have. So I know we're a little bit past our time, but I'm not sorry about this. Not at all. This was an amazing conversation, So to end it off, Sarah, where can people find you?
[00:37:25] spk_0: You can find my website Elkins consulting dot com, and that will take you right to the page with my book that helps people uncover their stories their pivotal moments so that they can remove some of the obligation and guilt from their lives. Um, and also so they can address some of the internal messages that air creating patterns in their lives that they'd like to kind of figure out where that's coming from on. Do you can find me on LinkedIn? I'm pretty active on there. And my tag name on LinkedIn is the smile is free.
[00:37:58] spk_1: E I love it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for If this touch shoot anyway, please like and subscribe and share with your friends as we continue the message of being unapologetically bowled by being hot. Humans who are humble, open and transparent. See you next time.
Get married, have 2.5 kids, have a white picket fence?
Who decided these standards and what we should do anyways?
Join us in this episode as we talk with Sarah Elkins about why she eliminated the word 'should' and how doing so brought value to her life.
About the guest:
If you are a leader or want to be one who is effective and inspiring, it is critical to tell personal stories that connect to the audience, stories that resonate with the people you want to inspire. Sarah guides leaders in improving their speaking, connecting with an audience of any size, and building the kind of brand ambassadors who will support the big ideas.
She is also the author of Your Stories Don't Define You. How You Tell Them Will.
[00:00:02] spk_0: this is This show is brought to
[00:00:05] spk_1: you by Safety FM. Welcome to unapologetically bold. I'm not sorry for If you are a person that is tired of apologizing for being you, you know the human part of you that sometimes feels like it has to be different at home versus work versus play. The human side that just wants to be hot, humble, open and transparent about your wants, desires and uniqueness. If you answered yes, this is for you. Join me, Emily Elrod as I dive into conversations with Amazing Guest. About what? That you're not sorry for and creative and loving ways. Let's get started. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another unapologetic Be bold I'm not sorry for. And I am so excited today to have a friend with May. Sarah. Sarah, Welcome.
[00:01:04] spk_0: Thank you. Well, my name's Sarah and I moved to Montana from Washington D. C. 21 years ago. And, um, in the last 20 years, I've learned how to help leaders and people who aspire to be leaders share the right stories at the right time to inspire others and connect more authentically and deeply building advocates and building people who want to help you live your best life,
[00:01:33] spk_1: E. I love it. And I love the part that you're talking about stories because that's a big thing on here is to be. What we say is, ah, hot human who is humble, open and transparent stories really connect. It's a connector that we can relate with others and also continue our mission of spreading humanity and being really and authentic with one another. So I'm excited for this conversation, and we love to just go ahead and dive on into it. So the show is called unapologetically bold. I'm gonna ask you, Sarah, what are you no longer apologizing for? I
[00:02:07] spk_0: am not apologizing for removing the word should from my vocabulary both in my internal dialogue and my external one.
[00:02:16] spk_1: Oh, I love it. And this, I think, is going to elicit a lot of great stories that come from it. When did you first realize that you have you needed to do this? Well, you know,
[00:02:28] spk_0: the first thing was when I read this article by my friend Susan Rooks that talked about mechanic that was shooting all over her, and basically, um, she had been going to this mechanic for a long time. And when she went after it had been too long between oil changes. He was giving her such a hard time. You should have done this 600 miles ago. You should do this. You should do that. And she walked away from this situation feeling really icky, you know, just like he was being condescending and just a little rude, I guess. And she never went back to him. And she had been going to this mechanic for a long time. And I read this article and I thought, Yes, I totally agree. You shouldn't should on people. And it was later that day I was talking to one of my sons who was a teenager at the time. And I said, Jacob, you should think about and I like I sucked that word right back into my mouth and went, Maybe consider, because should sounds so condescending. Well, the irony is that later that day I was in my room thinking about going to the gym, and the word should popped into my mouth or into my head. I thought I should go to the gym. And then it dawned on me that I was shooting on myself and and that changed. It changed everything for me.
[00:03:52] spk_1: And I think that's powerful, too, that what I've seen a lot of times of communication, internal and external is these preconceived expectations that we're putting on ourselves so fast. Forward to now. How has the power of not shooting on anybody or yourself impacted your life?
[00:04:18] spk_0: Well, the first thing that I can share is that I I still struggle every once in a while with should in my head because, you know, were raised with certain expectations. Obligations and guilt were just raised with that, no matter where were raised, and I still every once in a while, fight with that in my head. But here's what I dio every time now that I hear should in my head to myself. I make a decision, I think is this should mind. Does it actually belong to me or a sister showed that somebody else is putting on May? Is it my mother should Is it my neighbors should, um, and then the next question is OK. If it's not mine, I get to let it go. It's not mine anymore. My sister would say. That's not your baggage, leave it. And so you know, I imagine myself taking this this huge, heavy suitcase out of the trunk of my car and putting it on the sidewalk and driving away. That's not my should. I don't need to own it anymore. But if it's mine, that's when it really matters to me. That's when I decide. Either do it right now or don't do it. The Should just adds this layer of obligation to something, and nobody feels good about obligation. Nobody feels good about obligation, and so to me, if you think in terms of okay, it's mine. Either I'm going to go to the gym right now or I'm not going to go. And if I'm not going to go, I'm not going to feel guilty about it because it's mine. I own it
[00:05:54] spk_1: That is so powerful. So people that are listening in on that I just want you to understand there's so much power and owning your should, and I'm going to start using this, too, because I feel like those are things that I struggle with myself in the aspect of example today and it's just an example that I see that a lot of times people do is taking things that air sad that they should do or how they should feel or how they should think and bringing it as fax. And my son heard something on a cartoon. He's like it was that the thumb is your smartest part of your brain. And like, what? I didn't say what he analyzed it, and I think the important part of it is and this is what I told them. I am so proud of you because you looked at the validity of it and seeing if it's a actually valid to you and or if this fact is actually valid, and that's what I see with this should is it is a valid thought. Is it mine, or is it someone else's? So, for somebody that's hearing this for the first time, and 1 may be like me and like Oh, I can nerd out on this all day. But But hearing this and being like okay, so practical steps sounds easier said than done. What are some lessons that you have learned to help hold yourself accountable, to understand where should
[00:07:25] spk_0: really the external ones have been three easiest to remove. So when it comes to working with a coaching client, I have completely removed the word should for my vocabulary because I don't want to come across as if I know something that they don't know on dso I've removed that, and instead I've replaced that with something that is more meaningful. So, for instance, instead of saying you should try for a new job or you should leave your job, I might say, Have you thought about what it would mean to leave your job? What would that look like for you? What? What would be the replacement for that? And what would be the first step if you decided you wanted to do that? So if they're asking me for specific guidance, how how should I start this? I'll say, Well, if I were going to start it, this is what I would dio you, and that comes across completely differently than saying, You should do this first, and then you should you when? So in in some ways, especially with our young adult sons, who are now 19 and 22. Um, if I say you should do this, I see them just completely dismissed me. You can see it in their faces. So it's It's kind of like the word, but I love you. But you just completely took away that first part of the sentence that but just completely it negated the whole first part of the sentence because all they hear is the second half of it. The same thing happens with should assume, as you put the words should into the sentence they've shut you off because you're coming across as if you're telling them what to Dio. And very few people want to be told what to Dio and those who do don't want to hear it in that way. It s Oh, that's been my experience
[00:09:16] spk_1: that absolutely beautiful. And it makes me think of the work that I do with wellness and safety and is that command and compliance aspect that I have found to not be effective because I always say, you can't make me mayor run a marathon. I'm not gonna make you run like you should not say should and like demand people give them choice. And even in that, like it's an invitation for May and saying you should not let's have an invitation of a choice for others. Because if you've been on this podcast long enough, you all know that I'm gonna about to mention Desi and Ryan. Self determination theory, something I absolutely love. And it talks about competency, which is the knowledge need tohave it autonomy the freedom toe, have it and related this What I found specifically with free world countries like America. You tell him about somebody that they should do something we were going to the opposite way have been given voice. We're not a robot. So talk to people a minute about ways to reframe that in ways of like, you know that you said earlier. But some some additional steps that you have found like in your practice or in your personal life of eliminating should and effective ways.
[00:10:45] spk_0: Sure. Um I can really relate to your whole, um, bringing up compliance because I was a compliance officer for Major Federal Grant and I lived. I eat, slept, eat, sleep, breathe compliance for oh, about 2.5 years. And I found that the more I built relationships with the sub grantees, the less I had thio bring down a heavy hammer about compliance And I'm thinking of particularly one of our sub grantees who was struggling with doing the reporting that I was asking him to Dio. And instead of saying you should do this every day, I said, What is one way that I could help you make sure that this gets done every day? What offering them resource is, um, asking them what their ideas are can really change that whole dynamic. So in this case, I said I must have this information by every Friday at four o'clock. I must have this information in order to complete my reports so that our grant is compliant with our funders. What can I do to help make sure that you get your data to me in time? That's a totally different thing than me saying you should do this every day so that I get my data on time or you should try this. And I I could like I was so close to saying, you should try writing this down every day and then just send all of it to me on the same day. Or you can send it to me every single day if you want. You don't have to wait to the end of the week, and I almost said You should just send me this every day. But then I said, I know you have daily routines. We've already talked about some of your daily routines. What if we just added this to your daily routine? Mm, It is powerful. It is. What if we did this? What? What can I do to help you with a good strategy to make this work? And I do the same thing with our boys. Um, instead of saying you should clean your room, I say you can't find the tool that you wanted to use yesterday because your room is a mess. What can I do to help you get it cleaned up?
[00:13:04] spk_1: Mhm. And the thing is, burn a brown clearest kind, and I think that's huge that you're talking about two is it's not that you're eliminating should and then being what some people would say soft or a pushover, is it You are eliminating should not for a power play, but it's in the aspect of clear expectations of this is what is needed, and it goes to what I call the Socratic method and asking questions, letting the learner learn what it does and what will work for them. How powerful is that for your people? How have you seen that in the work that you do whenever they take ownership of it?
[00:13:55] spk_0: Well, one of my favorite situations was when I was helping a coaching client through, um, try to uncover specific story. So I had asked him about something that had happened and and it was at work. And he was talking about how, um, the person that was being abusive to him, This was in a job many years before, But it was still grading on him, and he was trying to uncover why it was still bothering him because it was a pivotal time in his career. So he said, Well, this this guy was just so rude to me, and I didn't know what to say. I said, I'll bet you have some ideas of what you would have said if you could have done it before I said, Yeah, I said, Well, we all do that right. 10 minutes later, or even a year later, like I should have said, Do you do that? He said, Yeah, and I said, Well, practice with me. He said, What do you mean? I said Pretend like I'm the guy and say what you should have said five years ago. What is in your head of what you think you should have said five years ago? So he said it out loud and I looked at him and I said, Did that work? Did it make you feel better? He said, Not really. I said Why? He said, Because I had been telling myself I should have said this all these years and now that I'm saying it out loud, I realized that was that would have been a stupid thing to say to him, E said, So you can let go of that should have. I should have said And he said, Yeah, I can let that go now
[00:15:29] spk_1: That's so powerful to in the aspect that we make things up in our mind and how those internal should can keep shooting themselves, like, almost almost makes me think of shooting yourself in the foot. But shooting yourself in the foot, you know, like yourself sabotaging and when you're away from the situation, sometimes it feels like you could make it bigger and worse than it originally Waas, and so that practicing of it brings it to reality and humanity. I think that's important to it as well. And that's why I guess when a note on real quick is the human side of it for people there like, this ain't gonna work. How could you help them understand that this is a part of humanity and that a lot of us probably wrestled with us?
[00:16:29] spk_0: Sure. Well, I like to use images. I'm all about analogies and stories to help us, um, really apply learning rather than just talk about it, because I'm I'm a very practical person. And I know that surprises people a lot because I'm a storyteller and a storytelling coach. I I help people uncover their stories. That doesn't sound really practical, but it is a very practical thing that I do when I'm working with my clients because it helps them connect with others. And so when I think about the power of removing, should I think about it as that image that my sister gave me so many years ago? It was when we were on the phone and I was pretty upset about something my mom had said to me, and it had been a should. She was saying, You should dio You should say, You know, it was all that obligation and frustrated and I was telling my sister about it. I was so frustrated. She said, Sarah, that's not your baggage because it was what I realized is I could imagine that this was coming from my mom's experience. It was very different from mine. And so she was speaking about her experience. She was projecting her experience on to me, and so when my sister said she she's the one that gave me this visual she said, Take that stuff out of your trunk and leave it on the sidewalk It's not yours, Bond. From that point forward, every time I think about should that belong to other people, that's what I imagined. Mm. And it's actually really easy to tell the difference between a should that's yours, and it showed that belongs to someone else. It is really easy, even when it comes down to your kids. Eso If you are your your kid is pretending to be sick. They don't want to go to school. It's pretending to be sick, and you think I should make him go to school? Whose is that? Who? That's all you like when you say I should make him go to school. That's not somebody else that should. That's that's your should. And so you have to. Despite in that moment, you have to make a decision that either you're going to make him go to school or you're not, and you're gonna live with the consequences. And I think that's the biggest thing. Is the consequences? Like what? What are the consequences of living with this shit?
[00:18:54] spk_1: MM. And it is because it can weigh you down talking about the baggage, it literally and how many people are walking around with other people's Bible that is not theirs because they have never even thought of this principle or there's never been an awareness to it and that you have a choice exactly. And so the choosing part. How would you help somebody understand that this is this is your choice? This is your should comparative to someone else's. I know that the I statements versus hearing. It's maybe Mom said I should maybe being able to tell the difference of those But what would you What would you say to that? What would you invite people to ponder?
[00:19:49] spk_0: You know, I love your unapologetically bold. I mean that that alone is kind of the answer to that question. My husband and I moved from Washington D. C. To Montana at least 1000 miles, maybe more from any of our nearest family number. And at first I was kind of sad about that because, you know, I wanted my boys to know their family, and I was concerned that they weren't going to know their aunts and uncles and cousins. We've made it happen, so they know them. And of course, with communication tools that we have now it hasn't really been a problem. There are times when I'm sad that my kids didn't get to know my mom and spend more time with her, but my family was all over the country anyway. But here's the thing. By moving so far away, I basically rid my life of face to face obligation. So yeah, and that's when I realized, just like, five years into it, I realized how grateful I waas that I was so far away that I didn't have the family obligations that I would have been facing if I was staying in the D C area bond. That's both sides of the family, not not just my husband's family, but both sides of my family. And it was when I had that realization of how much I enjoyed not having that obligation and how powerful it is in my relationships with those people that I'm choosing my relationships with them. Bond. That's the difference when you say choice. That's what I think about when, um when I see something that reminds me of my sister in law and I buy it and send it to her, that has nothing to do with obligation. And both of us know that eso when I do, when I take action, when I call her and catch up with her, show her pictures of our boys, Um, take her on a walk with me as I'm hiking. She lives out in northern Virginia, and I called her up and take her for a walk with me. Our relationship is so much stronger and so different then it would be if I only saw her when it came toe obligation.
[00:21:59] spk_1: Mm, yes, There's so many things that can I can see on my own self in that and the bitterness that can come because Dana, I have to do this. It's the right thing. I wanna people, please, especially somebody that suffers recovering a people pleasing e Think that goes to the know of whenever you eliminate the word should I do not see that it's selfishness. I see that it's selflessness and that you're putting people forward and your you're letting go of your ego and your understanding that you can love your best. You can be your best by owning yourself and loving yourself and putting those boundaries. Uh huh. So talk about that for a minute on how I know that you talked about your sister and how it strengthen your relationship. But I want you to dive a little bit more about how that has also strengthened, like maybe with your family, like your immediate family or a significant other
[00:23:04] spk_0: Well, let's I'm going to turn this around on you a little bit when somebody does something for you or shows up for you, and you know they're only doing it because they feel obligated to. How does that make you feel? Yeah, Vicki, right? He's only he's only here because he thinks he should be. He's only calling me because he thinks he has thio, that it's this obligation. And unless you ask, are you doing? And what are they going to say? Oh, no, of course not. I totally want to come and help you move. That seems really unlikely. So in my family, our Children, no, both of our boys know when I do something for them, it is absolutely because I want Thio because I used to, because I love them because I value them because I respect and admire them. It's not because I feel obligated to do it.
[00:23:58] spk_1: That's huge, especially for any parents, listeners or leaders listening to this as well. That is One thing I do want to know is it's without an agenda. It's without an obligation. I always joke with people that I don't joke, actually do it. But whenever I come and talk business four times before that, I want to get to know you, and the reason why I want to have four conversations to get to know you is because I want to know you like I truly want to come in without an agenda and just get to know the person. So if we do decide to do business, that Aiken touch and connect with them at a deeper level, comparative to giving, expect again obligations, expectations. And I tell my kids this all the time. The day that you start feeling like I should be doing something, it's probably gonna be removed for me. The reason why is I believe that's entitlement. And that's the thing that I cringe against whenever they feel like they're entitled to my responses and that there nothing no longer seeing it as something that I get to dio I want to do. I love to do Like I joked with you after this, me and the kids are going to go running puddles because we have big storm and we have a new area in our area that we could go play in puddles. It's not something that we should do is something that we get to do and how much more you cherish that moment and your mindful of those moments. Whenever you get you get to do something that you not out of obligation and I do wanna pop up a comment. As Kelly Blackmun said, There is a huge difference between choosing relationships and being obligated to be in them because absolutely there, that's a that's a huge point I do want to touch on real quickly is the obligation to be in them. I've found sometimes my example. I had a child out of wedlock. Many people told me I should marry the man that was, I had a child out of wedlock. How I would not be where I am today if I would have done that. I know that that if I was obligated to this person because of one action, and I think that's in the difference to is choosing those relationships and it's mine. I own it. My husband, who I am married to, is the most amazing man and some of the blessings you may forgo by thinking you should do stuff.
[00:26:47] spk_0: Yeah, and we can turn that around us. Well, Kelly, that is such a great point that the definition of your relationship shifts when it's out of obligation versus out of choice and there to situations that that just popped into my head. One is, um the obligation to be in a relationship with somebody in your family. So I have a friend who has a mother that is severely abusive to her, and she always has been. And this woman is in her thirties and her mother has done enough damage, and it she feels obligated to have a relationship with her mother because she's her mother and I get that. I totally understand that. There's a point, though, where you get to choose. And maybe you can't choose whether you have a relationship with your mom, because that's something that just feels so innate. Lee connected to you. But you do get to choose to set the boundaries on that relationship toe. Have the relationship on on your conditions and not on hers. So you don't get to be surprised by her abuse because you've known it all along. But if you're choosing to have relationship with her, you get to choose the circumstances and how that happens. The other side of that was when our boys were really little. They were like I don't know, three and five years old, and my husband had to leave town for five weeks. He was gone for Ah week came back for four days and then traveled all the way to Afghanistan and Indonesia for four more weeks. So he was gone for almost five weeks in a row. And I remember those first few days of being a single parent to two toddlers and working part time, and I was exhausted like I was so fatigued. Just getting them into bed was an ordeal. And then, of course, I'd have to go downstairs and do some more work or finished cleaning the kitchen or have a glass of wine and read my book, whatever it was. And then we'd get up and start all over again, and I remember just being so exhausted. But after three or four days, we got into a routine. We we figured out how to make this work for the three of us and the dogs, and we did find it was still exhausting. I had a huge respect and admiration for people who do this on their own forever. I I mean, just these weeks in a row were exhausting, so I I could finally kind of wrap my head around what that looked like permanently, but I didnt have thio. So my husband comes home and I have this wonderful dinner set up, and we're all trying to readjust to our schedules which anyone who's had a military partner deployed and come back. You know what I mean by having to readjust and and find a new routine again, which is the struggle. So we're sitting at dinner and we're all laughing, telling jokes, whatever is going on. And I looked at my husband and I said, You know, I really missed you. And the boys were like, You know, now they're going to kiss again. But I said, no. I really missed you. And I said, But the most important thing about this was that I missed you because I miss your company. I missed you being around. I didn't feel like I needed you. Mm hmm. And of course, my husband His first response. And I don't know if you go with these personality things, but he's a cancer. And so his first response was What do you mean you don't need May that 00 that wasn't right. But then he realized what I was saying. That I that I choose him that I'm with him because I choose him, not because I need him. And I remember having this conversation in front of our boys. And then many years later, one of them had a girlfriend and they were talking about that at the dinner table at our dinner table when my younger son said, Yeah, it's really important to choose the person, not to need the person
[00:30:40] spk_1: that is very powerful in the aspect that not only did you give him confidence and oh, man, that is, and I know that the impact. So people that are here in this or like okay, I think she's trying like advanced May on. Then what would you tell people that are apologizing for eliminating the word Should
[00:31:12] spk_0: I would tell you I would suggest that when you eliminate the word should and you stop apologizing for it, it will strengthen your relationships. It will strengthen your relationship with you being able to beam or intentional about the decisions you're making and the choices you make. And it will benefit your relationship with others because when they know you're choosing you and you're choosing them in your words, in your language, in your actions, your relationships improve
[00:31:46] spk_1: so true. And we have another comment. How do you address has two versus choose to when the people around you are not emotionally healthy? This is a big one. I've told people that I choose their company versus needing it and many folks were offended. And just like you said in your conversation, your husband, I will say for me before I'm a cancer as well. And it's that need that want the desire like you want. And also my love language is words of affirmation. So I really want you to tell me how much you need. Uh, but the thing is, is the choice behind it. So I do want to go to this app. How do you help people understand when they're not at possibly the maturity or the emotional healthy as others?
[00:32:34] spk_0: Well, I can tell you that when I said that to my husband and I noticed I had insulted him, the first thing I did was I said, if I needed you, our relationship wouldn't last. Yeah, it would only last a long is that need lasted. But the difference is that I choose you and I choose you every day, even when it's hard. Even when you make me angry, I choose you every day, and that's a much more. That's a much stronger relationship than need.
[00:33:10] spk_1: That is a fact. I will say that is 100% a fact in the aspect that you again get the choice in that love and you get to grow it and it is no longer okay. Basically, I think back was that symbiotic relationship. It is one where you get to choose. It's not that you need each other to survive, because we've all probably seen relationships where that's happened. And at some point both of them were so drained from giving and needing so much that is just
[00:33:48] spk_0: implode. It implodes. And Kelly, I really appreciate that question so much, Um, when you have to explain that you're choosing them over needing them. I think one of the important aspects is to say, um Thio address that need what we all want to be needed. We all want to be needed, but that's not necessarily the healthiest way to have a relationship. E think that's why some people end up being so hyper absorbed in their Children's lives is because they love being needed. And then there's a point, just like in every relationship where that needs starts toe Wayne and they start to demonstrate their own independence, their own thought, their own ideas of what they want to dio. You see your Children going through this, and it's really hard to separate that because you want them to need you. Bond. Every healthy relationship requires you to be able to set that aside to not to be needed. My mom When when our younger son went to kindergarten, I walked him across the street to the kindergarten and he took off. He never even turned to look at May. He didn't kiss me goodbye. He just ran to his friends to go play. This is the first day of kindergarten, first day of school, and I was anticipating him, turning around and hugging and kissing me and saying goodbye. Of course, maybe even some tears. None of that happened, and I was a little offended and very, very sad, and I will never forget. I turned around across the street so he wouldn't see the tears dribbling down my face, and I'm not a crier, so he would have known something was wrong. I turned my back to him and I walked back over and I called my mom and I just started bawling. Mom, he didn't even kiss me goodbye. And you know her first word? She said, Good job, Mom.
[00:35:46] spk_1: Yes. You gave confidence to your kid. You gave safety and security to your kid. They didn't need you.
[00:35:54] spk_0: Exactly. You raise your Children to be independent, to contribute to society. Toe have their own lives. You don't raise them to be dependent on you. That is green for any relationship.
[00:36:07] spk_1: So good. And somebody said this to me before and it took me aback of the first time. She said, Thank you for raising your Children as if they were contributing members of society instead of a pet.
[00:36:22] spk_0: No, I've heard that before.
[00:36:25] spk_1: And I'm like
[00:36:26] spk_0: what people raise them as a pet crazy.
[00:36:31] spk_1: But the thing is, is that how we do that is that the dogs need us. They have toe, have us. They have to have us to survive and to live. That's not how humans are made. And so that really stuck with May is raising my kids as contributing members of society instead of a stimulus response, and in that they need my stimulus for them to know what response? Tohave. And so I I am just so blessed from this conversation. I believe this is something that will really impact people. Hopefully, somebody I know somebody has had to get something from this because I know I have. So I know we're a little bit past our time, but I'm not sorry about this. Not at all. This was an amazing conversation, So to end it off, Sarah, where can people find you?
[00:37:25] spk_0: You can find my website Elkins consulting dot com, and that will take you right to the page with my book that helps people uncover their stories their pivotal moments so that they can remove some of the obligation and guilt from their lives. Um, and also so they can address some of the internal messages that air creating patterns in their lives that they'd like to kind of figure out where that's coming from on. Do you can find me on LinkedIn? I'm pretty active on there. And my tag name on LinkedIn is the smile is free.
[00:37:58] spk_1: E I love it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of unapologetically bold I'm not sorry for If this touch shoot anyway, please like and subscribe and share with your friends as we continue the message of being unapologetically bowled by being hot. Humans who are humble, open and transparent. See you next time.