Brent Charlton
December 29, 2020
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speak with Brent Charlton. Brent discusses what he has enjoyed and not enjoyed during his 25 years plus career and what he would like to see change. Hear it all today on The Jay Allen Show, exclusively on Safety FM.
Today on The Jay Allen Show, Jay speak with Brent Charlton. Brent discusses what he has enjoyed and not enjoyed during his 25 years plus career and what he would like to see change. Hear it all today on The Jay Allen Show, exclusively on Safety FM.
[00:00:02] spk_1: this is visited. This show is brought to you by Safety FM. Yeah, well, hello and welcome to the J. Allen show. Man. I can't believe it, but the end of the year is here we are in the final days, today's December the 29th. So the countdown has started for it to be over with and looking into 2021. I'm so excited to bring you this episode here today as we are coming towards the end of the year. I hope everything is good in grand in your neck of the woods. But this interview right here, I wanted to make sure that I could bring it to you before the end of the year for you to take a listen to this conversation that was had between Brent Charleston and myself. I'm sure you've heard the name Brent Charleston before because he's been making the circuits. He's been on some different safety podcast. He's been on some different live streams. But today we get to sit down and have the opportunity of doing the one on one with Brent Charleston and speaking about what's going on inside of his career and what he has seen So let me give you a little bit of background on Brent real quick. Brent has been involved in the world of safety for about 25 years of his 35 year career. He has been able to actually do several different things throughout his career, and we're going to talk about some of those here today. I'm looking forward for you to hear this conversation between Brent and myself on the J. Allen show. Mhm. So I appreciate you doing this because I know that this is not normally one of the easiest things to do because it's like, OK, we're on the holiday week and you're trying to get me to come onto a show.
[00:01:50] spk_0: Yeah, I'm working from home, which is for me. It's not terribly productive anyway, so this is great.
[00:01:56] spk_1: Are you sure you want to admit to this starting off right away?
[00:02:00] spk_0: I told my wants the same thing. I hate work from home, so that's why I
[00:02:06] spk_1: e. I mean, and I could understand it because it's easy to get distracted, but I look at it. It's kind of like a combo thing. It's one of these things where you could do either a lot of work or you could get distracted easily and then start doing a lot of work at night, just depending on how you going to do it?
[00:02:20] spk_0: Yeah, There. There are times where you need the quiet and to be away from the office, and and there are times that that kind of hope up around it is a good thing. So if you got you know, if I got a lot of reading to do or something like that, which is what I'm gonna be doing this afternoon that's that's more productive than in the office.
[00:02:39] spk_1: Yeah, but then, of course, the problems you run into is when you're doing it inside of the office. They see you doing that. They think you're just kind of hanging out doing nothing.
[00:02:46] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, I gotta make I gotta make sure when I'm reading that I face away from the computer. So they don't think I'm just surfing the Internet.
[00:02:53] spk_1: Totally. Understandably So. So, Brian, I have to tell you, I wanted to get you onto the show. I had seen you kind of making some of the circuits around, and I always love having people onto the show, especially because I want the audience to get to know them. Also, I always love asking the probably the simplest and the dumbest question all at the same time. Why did you decide to get inside of the world of safety?
[00:03:14] spk_0: Uh, I was one of those the kind of fell into it it way back and late eighties. When I was working for over reading Bacher I was a facility supervisor
[00:03:26] spk_1: called on. How can you end up working there? I'd probably eat popcorn all the time. I have I have to interrupt immediately.
[00:03:32] spk_0: Of course. Well, my degrees in agriculture. So that's how I got the working in the popcorn business. So, uh, you had went the got a degree in agriculture from Purdue and went to work for Orville drying and shelling popcorn for about 10 years. And safety coordinator was one of the hats I was handed. And then when? Or will change his business away from, ah, picking corn on the year, which was his big selling point, generally handled to ah, combine uh, picker Scheller process. They downsized one supervisor that was me kind of like the safety stuff and so bluffed my way. And I could admit now bluffed my way into my first full time E h s job. First quality company. I had toe do some digging around to find out what clean air act and clean water act meant and a little bit about has waste rules toe block my way into that. But I got the job been full time ever since. Since that was 1990 uh, 90
[00:04:41] spk_1: five squared is not gonna come back after you now. Now that they were going to find this out are they?
[00:04:45] spk_0: Don't make their way too late for that
[00:04:47] spk_1: s o you say that you faked your way into it. Kind of explain, if you don't mind. What do you mean exactly? So you knew the agriculture side. So how all of a sudden do you get excited about safety to go into it?
[00:05:01] spk_0: Well, I like the for some reason that I don't quite understand myself. Probably. I liked perusing the regs and and putting together procedures, and I like training. I liked, uh, standing up in front of people and teaching so that part of it was attractive to me and the part I didn't have. Ah really good understanding of at that point was the environmental side of things. And that's where I did the bluffing but knew enough. E remember, that was the days before Internet. So to find a little bit about those was not as easy as hitting the Google.
[00:05:37] spk_1: Yeah, you just You just went to a store. You you had to buy either those things called a book. You know, they still sell those in some markets. Of course.
[00:05:45] spk_0: On encyclopedias.
[00:05:47] spk_1: What is that? What is that? Is that the Britannic? Think I'm joking? E remember when encyclopedia is actually started going on to C D, which was multiple CDs. That kind of gives me some ages there. How that was such a big deal. Especially if it had multimedia content.
[00:06:04] spk_0: Right, Right. You get a video on, there are photograph. That was something else,
[00:06:08] spk_1: huh? Right. And of course, it was like a miniature square compared to most screens. Now on exactly how much room content you would actually askew. Start looking at this. So you start going down the path you start doing safety, your there You did mention it by name. So I feel comfortable saying it now. But you were there in safety d for quite some time. So our square do you better say you were there for some time, as you kind of you went through the whole as you went through the process. How did you develop your skills?
[00:06:35] spk_0: Um, a couple things. One. I had an excellent mentor. There was operations manager for safety, Environmental with that company on. I'll mention his name. Stand McAllister. He's retired now, but Stan mentored me and taught me, you know, not only how toe to put policy and procedure together and even training people, but was a great mentor in, uh, navigating the politics of a large company and getting getting that under my getting that under my belt. But other than that, it was just doing it, you know, It took some classes, um, SSP and and some other things that were around to gain that spend some time with other more experienced safety environmental managers, their square D and just a kind of a noss Moses and self study type of thing.
[00:07:34] spk_1: So as you went through the process, and I'm sure you know, we could go years now into the future as things have changed in the world of safety. How easily accessible. I mean, nowadays, as you mentioned, you have the Internet. You go to the A s s P site. Relatively easy to sign up for a class. What was the difficulties back in the time? Like when you're trying to get into some of these course these core studies, how are you able to get gather the information at the time
[00:07:59] spk_0: back At that time, it was, ah, matter of luck that a flyer came in the mail. Really? Um, you know and say, Oh, that'd be That'd be a good one to take kind of thing. And, uh, you would get aligned with some training providers that had multiple different classes. You know, um, hazardous materials, transportation, D o T regulations and that kind of thing that, uh, you sign up for and go get that information.
[00:08:27] spk_1: So as you start going down the path, of course, you're able to get some of these trainings. You're able to do some different things. You're learning. You have a great mentor that's helping you out. So does safety start going into the place that you wanted to see go into or Is it still kind of up in the air as you're seeing the different opportunities that are out there,
[00:08:47] spk_0: a little bit of both J. I actually ended up when they moved a lot of the plant here in Indiana. A lot of that work in Mexico. I ended up transferring to the Lexington, Kentucky, plant, which was a much larger plant union environment and worked under a guy there who eventually left due to illness. And I became the manager there. But seeing this is where it was going as opposed to smother stuff. Yeah, there was kind of, Ah, there were times where I kind of question whether that was the thing to do, because it Z as we all know, it can be frustrating. Uh, but yeah, you know it. I actually, at one point there towards the end of my square D career had actually branched out and had facilities maintenance under me, our facilities management, and also coding so plating and painting under me at the same time. So those were kind of a nice fit because they're related to the environmental part of the job. But yeah, branched out. And but it was you know. No doubt at that point manufacturing was the place to be is opposed agriculture. So that part of it was given. And as I developed safety career and and contacts and and got really comfortable what I was doing that it's just does always seem to be the place to be. I have a funny story. I had a untold manufacturing manager square to you. We sat down in the cafeteria drinking a cup of coffee one morning, and he looks at me and very, very seriously says it looks at me and says, uh, were you in safety? And I said, Well, I like helping people. I like working with regulations. I like training. And he goes, Huh? Yeah, I seem much smarter than that.
[00:10:31] spk_1: Wow. Eso was he trying to gather you to go into the dark side, then? Is I like to call the operation side. Was he trying thio get you to come in over to that side? Was that the reason for the insult?
[00:10:41] spk_0: Yeah, I think there was. I think there was, uh, kind of a stigma with safety that that wasn't a well respected type of position.
[00:10:52] spk_1: Hold on. You said kind of a stigma with safety. Or do you feel that it's gone away then?
[00:10:58] spk_0: Not if you're not. If you're an Operations guy, I don't think it has not in all cases. Yeah,
[00:11:03] spk_1: so s so At what point? Because if you're having all these different because you're in the one position. But you have all these other things that you're able to do at the same time to do you ever get lured? Thio kind of change and leave the safety aspect. Like, do you look at it because it's easy when start a lot of people start presenting to you. Hey, come over here. You could probably get further and so on. So does that get presented to you at any point that you give it any kind of consideration?
[00:11:30] spk_0: Uh, it has once or twice over the years, but, you know, it's still for some reason, safety seems to be the place that I wanna be. And I think I I see the we have pressures and stresses, but, you know, observing the the dark side people, as you say, I kind of like that term e observing them. I think the stresses and pressures are different and maybe more intense. Um, so yeah, I don't I don't think I've ever seriously considered a career change.
[00:12:04] spk_1: Got it? So you've been doing this, of course, for years now. I mean, you said you entered it in 95. You're still currently doing it. And as you've seen the transitions throughout the years in the world of safety and we're talking, of course about safety in particular, what have you seen that you've liked? And what have you seen that you would like to improve?
[00:12:25] spk_0: Well, the what? I like the change that seems to be taking place now that we're starting to question things that have been kind of sacred over the years. Like behavior based safety and and some of those things that have been, you know, for gosh, I don't even know how many years since I first heard of BBS but has always been the way to go. But now, looking at the systems and human error and and looking at why people made an air instead of just they didn't stick to the plan and get more into why they didn't stick to the plan and and really mawr emphasis on talking and working with people, I think, than than what I've seen in the past. And I really, really like that, uh, doing making some of those changes ourselves with learning teams and things like that they were gonna be implemented in the next few months. I think I don't like Is the number of degreed safety people getting cranked out now? Andi, I don't know why that seems, toe, whether that's a new phenomenon or something, I just didn't notice before. But there's so many safety degree programs out in the young, newly minted safety professionals I don't think are coming out with the skills toe work. In today's environment, they're coming out very good regulatory enforcers. No, the regs. Very well. But they come out not knowing how to deal with people in the workplace and how toe really implement those things in a sense that that people will buy in and work with them that they wanna you know, because I'm the safety person do this and that most people know that just doesn't work.
[00:14:16] spk_1: So as you look at that, then and you're seeing a lot of the credential people coming out and they're coming out with credentials or they're coming out with diplomas as you look at it. Do you think it's because of a lack of experience overall, because they don't have management experience or experience within the world? Or I'm talking about young safety pros and nothing against them, of course. But do you think it's lack of experience being in the workplace, or do you just think it's lack of experience? Overall,
[00:14:42] spk_0: I think it's lack of experience overall, and the programs here near and around us that I've worked with and and hired some interns from over the past seems most of them gone away from full semester coop type programs. Thio Summer internship, which I said before, by the time they learn where their desk is and how to log into their computers, time to go back to school. I really don't have timeto enough days on the calendar toe work with them. Tau teach them those kind of people skills that a lot of people call soft skills, but really a critical skills. Eso I think it's I think it's that and that they're the co op experiences have gone away, understand why, in a lot of cases, costing money wise and people don't wanna and extra year school have couple semesters coop. But I think it's hurt overall.
[00:15:32] spk_1: So as you see this and you're able to interact with the people, what are you seeing when they come in? I mean, I know you're saying short period of time, So when they're they're working with you in turning with you, what kind of things do you have them doing as an example?
[00:15:46] spk_0: Um, I try to get him away from the typical coop, looking through the safety data sheets to make sure everything is there and that kind of stuff. And I try to get when I have one to get him involved in things like reviewing lockout procedures or reviewing machine guarding. Or if I, you know, if we have new equipment under way to get him in and sitting in the meetings toe, look at gardens and safe work, practice that stuff and try to get him ah, higher level experience or the coach him to give them tasks that are meaningful and give them coaching on how to deal with a particular person or how they might. Uh, I don't like the word sell necessarily, but how they might, uh, get buy in on different projects and things.
[00:16:31] spk_1: How they might present sugo eso kind of an odd question. Then do you think that we need you up our game when it comes to the people that are teaching the current crop that's coming out then from colleges and universities on safety? Because here is a bad thing that I'm going to say. So let's just keep in mind that I'm the one that's saying it. Most people say that if you can't do it, you normally teach it. So that's how most people become a teacher. I know. That's terrible to say. I said it. It's okay, I'll take the heat for it. But do you think that is because they're not teaching? That's because it's kind of lack of knowledge from the professor standpoint.
[00:17:12] spk_0: I think a lot of professors are, and I'm kind of speaking out of school here. But I think a lot of the professors at college level maybe have been removed from industry for so long that they don't understand what's going on in the world today. Um, that's a huge statement itself, I guess. But
[00:17:31] spk_1: that will be the that will be the clip of the show. Nobody like the rest of it. That's the clip. Their
[00:17:35] spk_0: Ugo Well, you know, I've been working to get involved in a couple of advisory boards for curriculums, and, uh, two or three of the department heads that I've talked to will admit that they agree with me, but they lament the fact that the people on their advisory board and even some of the people within their departments are old school and think the regulations are the thing that if you know the regs, you're ready to go. So change is gonna be slow. But I think those of us out here practicing need to get involved in those things and push for something different. You know, if you don't like the product, if you don't like your Ford escape, you complain and get changed, right? Or if you don't like the your steak, you send it back. And until it's right, so
[00:18:24] spk_1: Oh, God, no. I don't think anything back at a restaurant. I know better. I watched that movie waiting too many years ago.
[00:18:29] spk_0: Well, you know, uh, this stakes underdone, But why don't you leave it here and make me another
[00:18:35] spk_1: E. So let's talk about that, then for just one brief moment. So if we're seeing this and you've tried to go into the advisory boards, if you had a group of interns that we're currently with you right now and you were able to have the direct approach and the discussion with, um what would you give them as guidance? That should be the things that they should actually be looking at. Starting off as they go into the industry or even starting down going into the schooling path. What would you tell them to look for from their professors or their curriculum?
[00:19:07] spk_0: I, from their their curriculum, look for things to give them actual experience. Um, you know, and study things and learn toe interpret things. Um, I know there's been a problem with it. They're supposed thio written like out procedure, uh, or lock out policy. Let's say for their class, you can go to the Internet and find those things and not learn a damn thing. Um, so do that. Do your own work. Uh, question your professors on How does this work in the real world and realize you're not going well going in, then going in out in the world. Realize one. You're not a safety cop. Um, two. Compared to those folks working on the shop floor, you don't know a damn thing. Um, spend some time learning the work, getting to know the people when I bring it When I hire new safety, professional experience or not, one of their assignments in their 1st 30 days is to talkto a few people every week about anything but safety to just just get to know people and develop relationships and instead for the new folks coming out the young people. Uh, I think remembering that you don't know everything is huge. Go out and learn, be humble. Ask questions, uh, showing interest in in the work that's being done and not just being an enforcer.
[00:20:36] spk_1: So do you think that that's a lost art currently, where that's kind of part of the portion of where we're having problems of safety professionals going new into organizations where we're not doing the relationship building were just kind of going safety cop mode.
[00:20:51] spk_0: You know, you raise an interesting point there, and what pops into my head automatically is that we're so attuned these days, Thio communicating by text, message and email that maybe that is a lost art art art that we're losing to be able to talk to somebody, face to face and developing interest developed relationship, right?
[00:21:14] spk_1: Well, I mean and I think that ah, factor here also, Of course, with the changes in the world recently, I mean, as we started our conversation, you're saying that you're working from home? Nothing against that, of course. But does it make it more difficult to be able to communicate with others? Because, of course, unless you're doing a zoom call, they're not seeing your facial reaction. Um, of course, when you send an email or you you actually send a text, they don't know what the response is. They don't know if you're joking how serious the demeanor is, and some things could actually lost in translation. So when it comes to that, all that, do you think that this new technology and the pandemic that's going on across the world at the moment plays another factor into the whole equation?
[00:21:51] spk_0: Uh, no doubt it does. And if my current position was on the corporate position, if I was still in the plants every day. I would I would never work from home. I just You don't like that separation don't even like that. Separation is being in the corporate office. Really? Um, but yeah, I think you know, you've seen I'm sure people are done it yourself. You read emotion and voice inflection into a text message. Uh, it sets up a lot of room for for miscommunication. But there's no doubt that that this change away from being in person and being face to face is gonna make the problem worse. We're going to figure out how to overcome that. So So he even training? I've been doing some training on zoom calls and webinars and you know, I like toe move around the when I'm teaching, move around and talk to people and do the group exercise and be there listening in on things like that that that's difficult to impossible on a zoom call.
[00:22:55] spk_1: Well, I mean, and it's interesting that you bring that up because I think that using zoom technology now don't get me wrong for kind of small intervals. I think it's great, but when it comes to actually doing this when you're sitting in through a 234 hour class with it just being zoom. I think it's difficult to get engagement from the actual people that are attending.
[00:23:15] spk_0: Oh yeah, absolutely. Because it's there may be a home or in their office to So they're watching our other things or somebody's walking by or knocking on the door or the, you know, you working from home. Mom, we'll be lucky on this. Call off. The squirrels don't invade the dogs going saying here in a minute. But it is. It's difficult, I think, for people to focus on on a long term. And like you said, it's difficult. Impossible for me is an instructor to gauge what they're feeling, you know, you know, you're standing in front of a group of people teaching. You can see that Charlie has a puzzled look on his face and may need, and you say, Hey, you understand what we're doing and back up do that. That's really hard to do on Zoom.
[00:24:02] spk_1: Oh yeah, absolutely. Because it's so much easier when you're doing room engagement because you can hear though the Homs and of course, the facial gestures, as you just explained. But you can't get that via Zoom. The other thing that drives me crazy with Zoom calls it not picking on Zoom. Sure, I was on teams. Dio is when people take pictures of the screen and they're so excited that they want to post the picture of the screen It Some people just don't turn out looking to welcome our. They're not expecting it. I think sometimes they chuckle at it, especially when you start seeing the rounds on social media.
[00:24:30] spk_0: Yeah, that's good. Which should make the point. It's not picking on Zoom cause I use teams I use go to meeting and other stuff and same thing with all of them. But, um, zooms just seems to be popular, but yeah, I get the pictures of the screen and then you you know, of course, you have zoomed bingo with you're on mute. Can everybody see my screen? Can
[00:24:56] spk_1: you hear me now? Can you hear me now?
[00:24:57] spk_0: There's an echo. Who's who needs to meet their microphone way
[00:25:02] spk_1: can hear everything you're saying right now, So I've seen you do a lot more things recently where you're doing like these moments on social media. What was the idea behind that when you decided to start going down that path,
[00:25:14] spk_0: the the initial driver for that and and still the driver for that was, you know, how can we use for such a social media focused, uh, people's right now. So how could we make better use of our company Facebook page specifically to reach out their employees with little snippets of things? And so that's that's what started the social media safety minutes. And, of course, seeing some other folks do those and and really liked that concept. So it it gets my face out there to the folks and especially in a time when I can't travel around to the plants, it gets it out there and just little snippets. And I focused on, you know, some work related. So I'm not work related and, uh, just toe to put a face to the safety program and say, I'm I'm here Thio. I have the same stresses about mask wearing and all that kind of stuff, for example, that that you do. So, um, that's why I got it out there. And I just started throwing him on length in just for the heck of it, because you know who knows who you might help with an idea.
[00:26:19] spk_1: Well, you know that That's what I was going to ask next. Of course. What did your company think when they start seeing what you were normally posting inside of work on social media was anything said. What was the thought behind it? I
[00:26:30] spk_0: honestly don't know if anybody from work is seen in
[00:26:33] spk_1: me. Oh, that's scary. Yeah,
[00:26:38] spk_0: but, you know, typically, I don't have Ah. Well, I guess we do reference the, um, company a little bit. The start is the company family, but I don't think there's anything in there that that we've done that. That is a trade secret or information that's not not detrimental company. So I don't think it would be an issue.
[00:27:02] spk_1: Well, you know how some organizations are. And I'm just saying in general, not the one that you're currently ad, but they're very specific on what you post about them on social media. So you have to be extremely careful. So that's the only reason I was asking the question. Of course.
[00:27:15] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah. And I've, um since I started doing that a few months ago, I've only had one That my boss said, Let's not do it quite this way. So we made some tweaks and got the information out there without without having a special email to respond to or anything like that and that that was all that was. But, uh, yeah, so far, they've been really good about it.
[00:27:42] spk_1: So are you seeing a lot of engagement when it comes out of that?
[00:27:45] spk_0: Not a lot. Um, most recent when we asked, you know what's the dumbest thing we make you do in the name of safety? And And last I checked, there were about 70 views and no comments,
[00:27:56] spk_1: so no one was brave enough to put it.
[00:27:59] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I put my, uh, in house phone extension in there and haven't heard anything. So there's probably little fear factor in there, but that's one of the things that we're working on. Is is getting people pass that fear and talking to us about what? What are the dumb things we do?
[00:28:18] spk_1: Well, it's it's it's interesting that you say that because I've noticed this over the last little bit as I've been doing some different things. At one point I had a show that we would dio that we would have people actually comment or rant is what we called it in regards of what they did not like inside of the world of safety or with their organizations. Some people got so concerned that it started becoming emails and then it got into linked in messaging because then they became kind of a little bit hesitant of doing that where I will get messages of Can you say this? But I'm not I'm not gonna say it
[00:28:52] spk_0: so way take the blame for me, right?
[00:28:55] spk_1: Right. I mean, because I don't say the company, but at one point we were even doing that. We were hiding people's voices. So we would kind of do like some filters and weird things like that where people turned around and said, Okay, let's do it that way. And then it becomes It became so scary for some that they thought that I might actually release the original content. And I was like, I'm not gonna do
[00:29:14] spk_0: that. Uh, I do spend some time thinking about those things and making sure that that I don't do something that's gonna be detrimental company, of course. And because I like to keep my job. I like I like, I like the company. I work for eso. You know, I don't wanna do anything that's gonna damage them for sure.
[00:29:33] spk_1: I mean, I always think that's the important part. You have to enjoy what you're doing in the enjoy the place where you and I know that sometimes, depending on what the roles are, especially where you're reporting, they can think that some of your ideas are crazy, but it's always good to have a level of crazy.
[00:29:46] spk_0: Yeah, Yeah, I think so. You know, I just, um in the last few months, I got my boss, who's the senior vice president of operations and our CEO to read, uh, Todd Conklin's, uh, hot basics book or Five Principles of Hot. What? Whatever got them to read that. So I'm proud of that. Proud that they took the the time to do that and to give it some thought. So yeah, it z for safety person. It's It's a pretty good company to work for right now.
[00:30:17] spk_1: So let me ask that because you did reference it. How do you like reporting? And this is gonna be a bad question. of grass, of course, reporting in tow operations because most of the times safety doesn't report into operation. So how has that worked out for you?
[00:30:30] spk_0: It's worked out great. And I have This is Ah, pretty recent change in the last year, and I was concerned starting out. But it's working really well. All the plant managers report the same place, so I've got a seat at the table with all of them. So it's been really has been fantastic.
[00:30:50] spk_1: Now, is there kind of a diffuser? If things don't look, Ida, I if you're trying to do something where the operation side doesn't agree, do you have something like a new intermediary? If if necessary,
[00:31:02] spk_0: haven't really run into that. And I think I haven't run into that because most anything we try Thio to do that's new. I'm having conversations with the plant managers about this or what do you think about this or that and develop good relationships with them over the years that I've been here toe where we don't have those kind of things and they're not afraid to say, you know, I don't like that or how bad if we try it, this way and and I'm open to here. And you know, my philosophy has always been Here's what I need or I want to do. But how can I make that work for you guys? And so that eliminates the need for a diffuser, I think
[00:31:44] spk_1: got it. So as you see through the different times throughout your career and things that are going on with everything going on with Cove, it and everything going on inside of the world, what changes do you think need to be implemented going forward?
[00:32:00] spk_0: I think that we've we've gotta, you know, with Koven. Specifically, I think we've got to figure out this training thing and how do we get back to some sort of in person training? Because it's, you know, the online stuff and webinar stuff and zoom call stuff is I think that's been fine, an interim for things. But I think we've eventually got to get back to some solid training that is worthwhile and worth of time, and I we lose a lot of that with the online stuff. Um beyond that, I think there's some things that are going to stick with us social distancing and some of those things. I think we're gonna be around for a while so that that kind of feeds into the training to that in doing that. But I like we still need to communicate. We still need toe work together and everybody remember that the end goal is the same. It's ah to make money and to be safe doing it.
[00:33:03] spk_1: So some of these organizations now that are actually doing some events where they're doing social distancing inside of them. So let's say, for instance, previously they had 300 people there. Now there, let's say, for instance, hypothetically, they're limiting them to 100. And, of course, with the correct social distancing, Do you think that's something that we should continue to see or something that we should even continue to practice? His organisation's
[00:33:25] spk_0: Yeah, I think I think it is. J is, you know, pending results of how this vaccine really works or not. And how how if that knocks this thing out, then sure, go back. Uh, you know, the big conferences and things like that, But I think until we know for sure, we're going to continue doing that probably.
[00:33:46] spk_1: Well, let's this going to be realistic at this particular point is we're doing this recording because if anybody ever hears this in the future, we're a time that will be released. Will be the last week of December. So we're recording it pretty much within the last week. It will be released at that particular portion and we're still seeing right now the first round of the vaccine. So we're seeing right now the fighter version is two shots. The moderate version is one shot. There is a conversation right now being had of Johnson and Johnson. I'm actually coming out with their version of the vaccine we are seeing at the moment, some people actually having some reactions to some of the vaccines. Now, based on some news stories that I was seeing today, it looks like they're saying that probably most people will have access to this. Come June. How do you look at this? In regards of the workforce, I've heard of some conferences even having conversations of having a conference with doing a shot involved, which I think is kind of weird thing. What's your opinion about?
[00:34:47] spk_0: Hi. About the vaccine or having conferences?
[00:34:50] spk_1: Well, both because if you have the chance of going to a conference that actually have the vaccine. Would you go to it if they said that that was part of the included of the cost.
[00:34:59] spk_0: Oh, I hadn't heard those yet.
[00:35:01] spk_1: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That's been making the sequence as probably the last two weeks when the vaccines to kept on being talked about, especially these conferences are being planned out for February March. And there's another one that I had seen already in June.
[00:35:13] spk_0: Interesting. Um, I don't know. I am on the fence about the vaccine right now. Okay. For me, it's not been tested as thoroughly is what we're used Thio. And that concerns me a little bit, so I don't know. I don't know if I have an answer for that right now.
[00:35:30] spk_1: Okay? Yeah. And I keep on wondering when when we start seeing these first, add on what those side effects are going to sound like. And I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I'm just trying toe figure out if it's going to be the micro machine guy is kind of going full blast at the end of the ad.
[00:35:44] spk_0: Yeah, well, one I was like in those ads is Don't take this If you're allergic, Thio unless I take it. How do I know? Right, Right. Uh, and now the vaccine, the CDC and all their wisdom has said G, if you have a severe reaction to the first shot, don't take the second shot. Uh,
[00:36:06] spk_1: the sad part is that it has to actually be mentioned that za scary part of the equation.
[00:36:11] spk_0: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen with that with conferences and stuff in the future, But I'm not a fan of virtual conferences myself, so I may have to change that attitude. Who knows?
[00:36:25] spk_1: So, Brian, how are you looking at this right now? Are you planning on retiring anytime in the near future? You still got several years more to go? What are you thinking?
[00:36:33] spk_0: I've got several years ago. I'm 58. 62 would be nice, but probably not realistically. So I'm probably in for another eight or nine years anyway.
[00:36:44] spk_1: So when you look back for the when you're looking over the next eight or nine years, what do you want? Your legacy to be built around.
[00:36:52] spk_0: Okay. Oh, boy. Um hi. Could I leave, Leave anything. It's that we've eliminated of some of the silly bureaucracy and safety, Um, and that, you know, in my company and maybe overall, but also that I have I'd like to be known for having stimulated critical thinking that I think missing a lot of times and just the person who did the right thing for the right reasons and wasn't afraid toe to do that regardless of what it made me
[00:37:35] spk_1: at any cost.
[00:37:38] spk_0: Yeah, I think so.
[00:37:39] spk_1: Okay. Well, Brent, I do appreciate you coming on to the show today. If people want to know more about you and what you're doing work and they find you
[00:37:46] spk_0: linked to him, linked in or Facebook. Probably the easiest, easiest way to find me.
[00:37:53] spk_1: Well, this will bring another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. Thank you for hanging out with us today with this conversation with Brent Charleston. A lot of inside knowledge that gentleman has, as he discussed it here today. And we went further and further down the rabbit hole. Anyways, I hope that you enjoyed everything going on here today on this show. I hope you're looking forward to the changes of 2021. We're sure glad that you came out to hang out with us today because that's always cool when you do so. You are definitely the most important part of safety FM, and that is the listener. By the way, if you've not checked out our service Safety FM Plus, we would love for you to come out and do so. Right now we have a show running exclusively on the system known as around the safety pod. It discusses what exactly is going on inside of the world of safety from every podcast perspective, or at least a lot of them. At least that's how we look at it. If you want to Nome or information, you can go to safety FM plus dot com and take a listen to the first episode right there on the streaming platform. Anyways, we'll be looking forward to seeing you in the new year. Safety FM is the home of real safety talk. Thank you for always being the best part. Happy New Year, and we'll be back right around the corner with another episode of the J. Allen Show. Goodbye for now. Okay. Oh, want more of the J. Allen Show Built You. Safety FM dot com. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. They should not
[00:40:18] spk_0: be utilized in
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[00:40:20] spk_0: only solution available, as they are
[00:40:22] spk_1: based only on very limited and dated open source information. Assumptions made within this analysis
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[00:40:43] spk_1: podcast, Jay Allen.
[00:00:02] spk_1: this is visited. This show is brought to you by Safety FM. Yeah, well, hello and welcome to the J. Allen show. Man. I can't believe it, but the end of the year is here we are in the final days, today's December the 29th. So the countdown has started for it to be over with and looking into 2021. I'm so excited to bring you this episode here today as we are coming towards the end of the year. I hope everything is good in grand in your neck of the woods. But this interview right here, I wanted to make sure that I could bring it to you before the end of the year for you to take a listen to this conversation that was had between Brent Charleston and myself. I'm sure you've heard the name Brent Charleston before because he's been making the circuits. He's been on some different safety podcast. He's been on some different live streams. But today we get to sit down and have the opportunity of doing the one on one with Brent Charleston and speaking about what's going on inside of his career and what he has seen So let me give you a little bit of background on Brent real quick. Brent has been involved in the world of safety for about 25 years of his 35 year career. He has been able to actually do several different things throughout his career, and we're going to talk about some of those here today. I'm looking forward for you to hear this conversation between Brent and myself on the J. Allen show. Mhm. So I appreciate you doing this because I know that this is not normally one of the easiest things to do because it's like, OK, we're on the holiday week and you're trying to get me to come onto a show.
[00:01:50] spk_0: Yeah, I'm working from home, which is for me. It's not terribly productive anyway, so this is great.
[00:01:56] spk_1: Are you sure you want to admit to this starting off right away?
[00:02:00] spk_0: I told my wants the same thing. I hate work from home, so that's why I
[00:02:06] spk_1: e. I mean, and I could understand it because it's easy to get distracted, but I look at it. It's kind of like a combo thing. It's one of these things where you could do either a lot of work or you could get distracted easily and then start doing a lot of work at night, just depending on how you going to do it?
[00:02:20] spk_0: Yeah, There. There are times where you need the quiet and to be away from the office, and and there are times that that kind of hope up around it is a good thing. So if you got you know, if I got a lot of reading to do or something like that, which is what I'm gonna be doing this afternoon that's that's more productive than in the office.
[00:02:39] spk_1: Yeah, but then, of course, the problems you run into is when you're doing it inside of the office. They see you doing that. They think you're just kind of hanging out doing nothing.
[00:02:46] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, I gotta make I gotta make sure when I'm reading that I face away from the computer. So they don't think I'm just surfing the Internet.
[00:02:53] spk_1: Totally. Understandably So. So, Brian, I have to tell you, I wanted to get you onto the show. I had seen you kind of making some of the circuits around, and I always love having people onto the show, especially because I want the audience to get to know them. Also, I always love asking the probably the simplest and the dumbest question all at the same time. Why did you decide to get inside of the world of safety?
[00:03:14] spk_0: Uh, I was one of those the kind of fell into it it way back and late eighties. When I was working for over reading Bacher I was a facility supervisor
[00:03:26] spk_1: called on. How can you end up working there? I'd probably eat popcorn all the time. I have I have to interrupt immediately.
[00:03:32] spk_0: Of course. Well, my degrees in agriculture. So that's how I got the working in the popcorn business. So, uh, you had went the got a degree in agriculture from Purdue and went to work for Orville drying and shelling popcorn for about 10 years. And safety coordinator was one of the hats I was handed. And then when? Or will change his business away from, ah, picking corn on the year, which was his big selling point, generally handled to ah, combine uh, picker Scheller process. They downsized one supervisor that was me kind of like the safety stuff and so bluffed my way. And I could admit now bluffed my way into my first full time E h s job. First quality company. I had toe do some digging around to find out what clean air act and clean water act meant and a little bit about has waste rules toe block my way into that. But I got the job been full time ever since. Since that was 1990 uh, 90
[00:04:41] spk_1: five squared is not gonna come back after you now. Now that they were going to find this out are they?
[00:04:45] spk_0: Don't make their way too late for that
[00:04:47] spk_1: s o you say that you faked your way into it. Kind of explain, if you don't mind. What do you mean exactly? So you knew the agriculture side. So how all of a sudden do you get excited about safety to go into it?
[00:05:01] spk_0: Well, I like the for some reason that I don't quite understand myself. Probably. I liked perusing the regs and and putting together procedures, and I like training. I liked, uh, standing up in front of people and teaching so that part of it was attractive to me and the part I didn't have. Ah really good understanding of at that point was the environmental side of things. And that's where I did the bluffing but knew enough. E remember, that was the days before Internet. So to find a little bit about those was not as easy as hitting the Google.
[00:05:37] spk_1: Yeah, you just You just went to a store. You you had to buy either those things called a book. You know, they still sell those in some markets. Of course.
[00:05:45] spk_0: On encyclopedias.
[00:05:47] spk_1: What is that? What is that? Is that the Britannic? Think I'm joking? E remember when encyclopedia is actually started going on to C D, which was multiple CDs. That kind of gives me some ages there. How that was such a big deal. Especially if it had multimedia content.
[00:06:04] spk_0: Right, Right. You get a video on, there are photograph. That was something else,
[00:06:08] spk_1: huh? Right. And of course, it was like a miniature square compared to most screens. Now on exactly how much room content you would actually askew. Start looking at this. So you start going down the path you start doing safety, your there You did mention it by name. So I feel comfortable saying it now. But you were there in safety d for quite some time. So our square do you better say you were there for some time, as you kind of you went through the whole as you went through the process. How did you develop your skills?
[00:06:35] spk_0: Um, a couple things. One. I had an excellent mentor. There was operations manager for safety, Environmental with that company on. I'll mention his name. Stand McAllister. He's retired now, but Stan mentored me and taught me, you know, not only how toe to put policy and procedure together and even training people, but was a great mentor in, uh, navigating the politics of a large company and getting getting that under my getting that under my belt. But other than that, it was just doing it, you know, It took some classes, um, SSP and and some other things that were around to gain that spend some time with other more experienced safety environmental managers, their square D and just a kind of a noss Moses and self study type of thing.
[00:07:34] spk_1: So as you went through the process, and I'm sure you know, we could go years now into the future as things have changed in the world of safety. How easily accessible. I mean, nowadays, as you mentioned, you have the Internet. You go to the A s s P site. Relatively easy to sign up for a class. What was the difficulties back in the time? Like when you're trying to get into some of these course these core studies, how are you able to get gather the information at the time
[00:07:59] spk_0: back At that time, it was, ah, matter of luck that a flyer came in the mail. Really? Um, you know and say, Oh, that'd be That'd be a good one to take kind of thing. And, uh, you would get aligned with some training providers that had multiple different classes. You know, um, hazardous materials, transportation, D o T regulations and that kind of thing that, uh, you sign up for and go get that information.
[00:08:27] spk_1: So as you start going down the path, of course, you're able to get some of these trainings. You're able to do some different things. You're learning. You have a great mentor that's helping you out. So does safety start going into the place that you wanted to see go into or Is it still kind of up in the air as you're seeing the different opportunities that are out there,
[00:08:47] spk_0: a little bit of both J. I actually ended up when they moved a lot of the plant here in Indiana. A lot of that work in Mexico. I ended up transferring to the Lexington, Kentucky, plant, which was a much larger plant union environment and worked under a guy there who eventually left due to illness. And I became the manager there. But seeing this is where it was going as opposed to smother stuff. Yeah, there was kind of, Ah, there were times where I kind of question whether that was the thing to do, because it Z as we all know, it can be frustrating. Uh, but yeah, you know it. I actually, at one point there towards the end of my square D career had actually branched out and had facilities maintenance under me, our facilities management, and also coding so plating and painting under me at the same time. So those were kind of a nice fit because they're related to the environmental part of the job. But yeah, branched out. And but it was you know. No doubt at that point manufacturing was the place to be is opposed agriculture. So that part of it was given. And as I developed safety career and and contacts and and got really comfortable what I was doing that it's just does always seem to be the place to be. I have a funny story. I had a untold manufacturing manager square to you. We sat down in the cafeteria drinking a cup of coffee one morning, and he looks at me and very, very seriously says it looks at me and says, uh, were you in safety? And I said, Well, I like helping people. I like working with regulations. I like training. And he goes, Huh? Yeah, I seem much smarter than that.
[00:10:31] spk_1: Wow. Eso was he trying to gather you to go into the dark side, then? Is I like to call the operation side. Was he trying thio get you to come in over to that side? Was that the reason for the insult?
[00:10:41] spk_0: Yeah, I think there was. I think there was, uh, kind of a stigma with safety that that wasn't a well respected type of position.
[00:10:52] spk_1: Hold on. You said kind of a stigma with safety. Or do you feel that it's gone away then?
[00:10:58] spk_0: Not if you're not. If you're an Operations guy, I don't think it has not in all cases. Yeah,
[00:11:03] spk_1: so s so At what point? Because if you're having all these different because you're in the one position. But you have all these other things that you're able to do at the same time to do you ever get lured? Thio kind of change and leave the safety aspect. Like, do you look at it because it's easy when start a lot of people start presenting to you. Hey, come over here. You could probably get further and so on. So does that get presented to you at any point that you give it any kind of consideration?
[00:11:30] spk_0: Uh, it has once or twice over the years, but, you know, it's still for some reason, safety seems to be the place that I wanna be. And I think I I see the we have pressures and stresses, but, you know, observing the the dark side people, as you say, I kind of like that term e observing them. I think the stresses and pressures are different and maybe more intense. Um, so yeah, I don't I don't think I've ever seriously considered a career change.
[00:12:04] spk_1: Got it? So you've been doing this, of course, for years now. I mean, you said you entered it in 95. You're still currently doing it. And as you've seen the transitions throughout the years in the world of safety and we're talking, of course about safety in particular, what have you seen that you've liked? And what have you seen that you would like to improve?
[00:12:25] spk_0: Well, the what? I like the change that seems to be taking place now that we're starting to question things that have been kind of sacred over the years. Like behavior based safety and and some of those things that have been, you know, for gosh, I don't even know how many years since I first heard of BBS but has always been the way to go. But now, looking at the systems and human error and and looking at why people made an air instead of just they didn't stick to the plan and get more into why they didn't stick to the plan and and really mawr emphasis on talking and working with people, I think, than than what I've seen in the past. And I really, really like that, uh, doing making some of those changes ourselves with learning teams and things like that they were gonna be implemented in the next few months. I think I don't like Is the number of degreed safety people getting cranked out now? Andi, I don't know why that seems, toe, whether that's a new phenomenon or something, I just didn't notice before. But there's so many safety degree programs out in the young, newly minted safety professionals I don't think are coming out with the skills toe work. In today's environment, they're coming out very good regulatory enforcers. No, the regs. Very well. But they come out not knowing how to deal with people in the workplace and how toe really implement those things in a sense that that people will buy in and work with them that they wanna you know, because I'm the safety person do this and that most people know that just doesn't work.
[00:14:16] spk_1: So as you look at that, then and you're seeing a lot of the credential people coming out and they're coming out with credentials or they're coming out with diplomas as you look at it. Do you think it's because of a lack of experience overall, because they don't have management experience or experience within the world? Or I'm talking about young safety pros and nothing against them, of course. But do you think it's lack of experience being in the workplace, or do you just think it's lack of experience? Overall,
[00:14:42] spk_0: I think it's lack of experience overall, and the programs here near and around us that I've worked with and and hired some interns from over the past seems most of them gone away from full semester coop type programs. Thio Summer internship, which I said before, by the time they learn where their desk is and how to log into their computers, time to go back to school. I really don't have timeto enough days on the calendar toe work with them. Tau teach them those kind of people skills that a lot of people call soft skills, but really a critical skills. Eso I think it's I think it's that and that they're the co op experiences have gone away, understand why, in a lot of cases, costing money wise and people don't wanna and extra year school have couple semesters coop. But I think it's hurt overall.
[00:15:32] spk_1: So as you see this and you're able to interact with the people, what are you seeing when they come in? I mean, I know you're saying short period of time, So when they're they're working with you in turning with you, what kind of things do you have them doing as an example?
[00:15:46] spk_0: Um, I try to get him away from the typical coop, looking through the safety data sheets to make sure everything is there and that kind of stuff. And I try to get when I have one to get him involved in things like reviewing lockout procedures or reviewing machine guarding. Or if I, you know, if we have new equipment under way to get him in and sitting in the meetings toe, look at gardens and safe work, practice that stuff and try to get him ah, higher level experience or the coach him to give them tasks that are meaningful and give them coaching on how to deal with a particular person or how they might. Uh, I don't like the word sell necessarily, but how they might, uh, get buy in on different projects and things.
[00:16:31] spk_1: How they might present sugo eso kind of an odd question. Then do you think that we need you up our game when it comes to the people that are teaching the current crop that's coming out then from colleges and universities on safety? Because here is a bad thing that I'm going to say. So let's just keep in mind that I'm the one that's saying it. Most people say that if you can't do it, you normally teach it. So that's how most people become a teacher. I know. That's terrible to say. I said it. It's okay, I'll take the heat for it. But do you think that is because they're not teaching? That's because it's kind of lack of knowledge from the professor standpoint.
[00:17:12] spk_0: I think a lot of professors are, and I'm kind of speaking out of school here. But I think a lot of the professors at college level maybe have been removed from industry for so long that they don't understand what's going on in the world today. Um, that's a huge statement itself, I guess. But
[00:17:31] spk_1: that will be the that will be the clip of the show. Nobody like the rest of it. That's the clip. Their
[00:17:35] spk_0: Ugo Well, you know, I've been working to get involved in a couple of advisory boards for curriculums, and, uh, two or three of the department heads that I've talked to will admit that they agree with me, but they lament the fact that the people on their advisory board and even some of the people within their departments are old school and think the regulations are the thing that if you know the regs, you're ready to go. So change is gonna be slow. But I think those of us out here practicing need to get involved in those things and push for something different. You know, if you don't like the product, if you don't like your Ford escape, you complain and get changed, right? Or if you don't like the your steak, you send it back. And until it's right, so
[00:18:24] spk_1: Oh, God, no. I don't think anything back at a restaurant. I know better. I watched that movie waiting too many years ago.
[00:18:29] spk_0: Well, you know, uh, this stakes underdone, But why don't you leave it here and make me another
[00:18:35] spk_1: E. So let's talk about that, then for just one brief moment. So if we're seeing this and you've tried to go into the advisory boards, if you had a group of interns that we're currently with you right now and you were able to have the direct approach and the discussion with, um what would you give them as guidance? That should be the things that they should actually be looking at. Starting off as they go into the industry or even starting down going into the schooling path. What would you tell them to look for from their professors or their curriculum?
[00:19:07] spk_0: I, from their their curriculum, look for things to give them actual experience. Um, you know, and study things and learn toe interpret things. Um, I know there's been a problem with it. They're supposed thio written like out procedure, uh, or lock out policy. Let's say for their class, you can go to the Internet and find those things and not learn a damn thing. Um, so do that. Do your own work. Uh, question your professors on How does this work in the real world and realize you're not going well going in, then going in out in the world. Realize one. You're not a safety cop. Um, two. Compared to those folks working on the shop floor, you don't know a damn thing. Um, spend some time learning the work, getting to know the people when I bring it When I hire new safety, professional experience or not, one of their assignments in their 1st 30 days is to talkto a few people every week about anything but safety to just just get to know people and develop relationships and instead for the new folks coming out the young people. Uh, I think remembering that you don't know everything is huge. Go out and learn, be humble. Ask questions, uh, showing interest in in the work that's being done and not just being an enforcer.
[00:20:36] spk_1: So do you think that that's a lost art currently, where that's kind of part of the portion of where we're having problems of safety professionals going new into organizations where we're not doing the relationship building were just kind of going safety cop mode.
[00:20:51] spk_0: You know, you raise an interesting point there, and what pops into my head automatically is that we're so attuned these days, Thio communicating by text, message and email that maybe that is a lost art art art that we're losing to be able to talk to somebody, face to face and developing interest developed relationship, right?
[00:21:14] spk_1: Well, I mean and I think that ah, factor here also, Of course, with the changes in the world recently, I mean, as we started our conversation, you're saying that you're working from home? Nothing against that, of course. But does it make it more difficult to be able to communicate with others? Because, of course, unless you're doing a zoom call, they're not seeing your facial reaction. Um, of course, when you send an email or you you actually send a text, they don't know what the response is. They don't know if you're joking how serious the demeanor is, and some things could actually lost in translation. So when it comes to that, all that, do you think that this new technology and the pandemic that's going on across the world at the moment plays another factor into the whole equation?
[00:21:51] spk_0: Uh, no doubt it does. And if my current position was on the corporate position, if I was still in the plants every day. I would I would never work from home. I just You don't like that separation don't even like that. Separation is being in the corporate office. Really? Um, but yeah, I think you know, you've seen I'm sure people are done it yourself. You read emotion and voice inflection into a text message. Uh, it sets up a lot of room for for miscommunication. But there's no doubt that that this change away from being in person and being face to face is gonna make the problem worse. We're going to figure out how to overcome that. So So he even training? I've been doing some training on zoom calls and webinars and you know, I like toe move around the when I'm teaching, move around and talk to people and do the group exercise and be there listening in on things like that that that's difficult to impossible on a zoom call.
[00:22:55] spk_1: Well, I mean, and it's interesting that you bring that up because I think that using zoom technology now don't get me wrong for kind of small intervals. I think it's great, but when it comes to actually doing this when you're sitting in through a 234 hour class with it just being zoom. I think it's difficult to get engagement from the actual people that are attending.
[00:23:15] spk_0: Oh yeah, absolutely. Because it's there may be a home or in their office to So they're watching our other things or somebody's walking by or knocking on the door or the, you know, you working from home. Mom, we'll be lucky on this. Call off. The squirrels don't invade the dogs going saying here in a minute. But it is. It's difficult, I think, for people to focus on on a long term. And like you said, it's difficult. Impossible for me is an instructor to gauge what they're feeling, you know, you know, you're standing in front of a group of people teaching. You can see that Charlie has a puzzled look on his face and may need, and you say, Hey, you understand what we're doing and back up do that. That's really hard to do on Zoom.
[00:24:02] spk_1: Oh yeah, absolutely. Because it's so much easier when you're doing room engagement because you can hear though the Homs and of course, the facial gestures, as you just explained. But you can't get that via Zoom. The other thing that drives me crazy with Zoom calls it not picking on Zoom. Sure, I was on teams. Dio is when people take pictures of the screen and they're so excited that they want to post the picture of the screen It Some people just don't turn out looking to welcome our. They're not expecting it. I think sometimes they chuckle at it, especially when you start seeing the rounds on social media.
[00:24:30] spk_0: Yeah, that's good. Which should make the point. It's not picking on Zoom cause I use teams I use go to meeting and other stuff and same thing with all of them. But, um, zooms just seems to be popular, but yeah, I get the pictures of the screen and then you you know, of course, you have zoomed bingo with you're on mute. Can everybody see my screen? Can
[00:24:56] spk_1: you hear me now? Can you hear me now?
[00:24:57] spk_0: There's an echo. Who's who needs to meet their microphone way
[00:25:02] spk_1: can hear everything you're saying right now, So I've seen you do a lot more things recently where you're doing like these moments on social media. What was the idea behind that when you decided to start going down that path,
[00:25:14] spk_0: the the initial driver for that and and still the driver for that was, you know, how can we use for such a social media focused, uh, people's right now. So how could we make better use of our company Facebook page specifically to reach out their employees with little snippets of things? And so that's that's what started the social media safety minutes. And, of course, seeing some other folks do those and and really liked that concept. So it it gets my face out there to the folks and especially in a time when I can't travel around to the plants, it gets it out there and just little snippets. And I focused on, you know, some work related. So I'm not work related and, uh, just toe to put a face to the safety program and say, I'm I'm here Thio. I have the same stresses about mask wearing and all that kind of stuff, for example, that that you do. So, um, that's why I got it out there. And I just started throwing him on length in just for the heck of it, because you know who knows who you might help with an idea.
[00:26:19] spk_1: Well, you know that That's what I was going to ask next. Of course. What did your company think when they start seeing what you were normally posting inside of work on social media was anything said. What was the thought behind it? I
[00:26:30] spk_0: honestly don't know if anybody from work is seen in
[00:26:33] spk_1: me. Oh, that's scary. Yeah,
[00:26:38] spk_0: but, you know, typically, I don't have Ah. Well, I guess we do reference the, um, company a little bit. The start is the company family, but I don't think there's anything in there that that we've done that. That is a trade secret or information that's not not detrimental company. So I don't think it would be an issue.
[00:27:02] spk_1: Well, you know how some organizations are. And I'm just saying in general, not the one that you're currently ad, but they're very specific on what you post about them on social media. So you have to be extremely careful. So that's the only reason I was asking the question. Of course.
[00:27:15] spk_0: Yeah. Yeah. And I've, um since I started doing that a few months ago, I've only had one That my boss said, Let's not do it quite this way. So we made some tweaks and got the information out there without without having a special email to respond to or anything like that and that that was all that was. But, uh, yeah, so far, they've been really good about it.
[00:27:42] spk_1: So are you seeing a lot of engagement when it comes out of that?
[00:27:45] spk_0: Not a lot. Um, most recent when we asked, you know what's the dumbest thing we make you do in the name of safety? And And last I checked, there were about 70 views and no comments,
[00:27:56] spk_1: so no one was brave enough to put it.
[00:27:59] spk_0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I put my, uh, in house phone extension in there and haven't heard anything. So there's probably little fear factor in there, but that's one of the things that we're working on. Is is getting people pass that fear and talking to us about what? What are the dumb things we do?
[00:28:18] spk_1: Well, it's it's it's interesting that you say that because I've noticed this over the last little bit as I've been doing some different things. At one point I had a show that we would dio that we would have people actually comment or rant is what we called it in regards of what they did not like inside of the world of safety or with their organizations. Some people got so concerned that it started becoming emails and then it got into linked in messaging because then they became kind of a little bit hesitant of doing that where I will get messages of Can you say this? But I'm not I'm not gonna say it
[00:28:52] spk_0: so way take the blame for me, right?
[00:28:55] spk_1: Right. I mean, because I don't say the company, but at one point we were even doing that. We were hiding people's voices. So we would kind of do like some filters and weird things like that where people turned around and said, Okay, let's do it that way. And then it becomes It became so scary for some that they thought that I might actually release the original content. And I was like, I'm not gonna do
[00:29:14] spk_0: that. Uh, I do spend some time thinking about those things and making sure that that I don't do something that's gonna be detrimental company, of course. And because I like to keep my job. I like I like, I like the company. I work for eso. You know, I don't wanna do anything that's gonna damage them for sure.
[00:29:33] spk_1: I mean, I always think that's the important part. You have to enjoy what you're doing in the enjoy the place where you and I know that sometimes, depending on what the roles are, especially where you're reporting, they can think that some of your ideas are crazy, but it's always good to have a level of crazy.
[00:29:46] spk_0: Yeah, Yeah, I think so. You know, I just, um in the last few months, I got my boss, who's the senior vice president of operations and our CEO to read, uh, Todd Conklin's, uh, hot basics book or Five Principles of Hot. What? Whatever got them to read that. So I'm proud of that. Proud that they took the the time to do that and to give it some thought. So yeah, it z for safety person. It's It's a pretty good company to work for right now.
[00:30:17] spk_1: So let me ask that because you did reference it. How do you like reporting? And this is gonna be a bad question. of grass, of course, reporting in tow operations because most of the times safety doesn't report into operation. So how has that worked out for you?
[00:30:30] spk_0: It's worked out great. And I have This is Ah, pretty recent change in the last year, and I was concerned starting out. But it's working really well. All the plant managers report the same place, so I've got a seat at the table with all of them. So it's been really has been fantastic.
[00:30:50] spk_1: Now, is there kind of a diffuser? If things don't look, Ida, I if you're trying to do something where the operation side doesn't agree, do you have something like a new intermediary? If if necessary,
[00:31:02] spk_0: haven't really run into that. And I think I haven't run into that because most anything we try Thio to do that's new. I'm having conversations with the plant managers about this or what do you think about this or that and develop good relationships with them over the years that I've been here toe where we don't have those kind of things and they're not afraid to say, you know, I don't like that or how bad if we try it, this way and and I'm open to here. And you know, my philosophy has always been Here's what I need or I want to do. But how can I make that work for you guys? And so that eliminates the need for a diffuser, I think
[00:31:44] spk_1: got it. So as you see through the different times throughout your career and things that are going on with everything going on with Cove, it and everything going on inside of the world, what changes do you think need to be implemented going forward?
[00:32:00] spk_0: I think that we've we've gotta, you know, with Koven. Specifically, I think we've got to figure out this training thing and how do we get back to some sort of in person training? Because it's, you know, the online stuff and webinar stuff and zoom call stuff is I think that's been fine, an interim for things. But I think we've eventually got to get back to some solid training that is worthwhile and worth of time, and I we lose a lot of that with the online stuff. Um beyond that, I think there's some things that are going to stick with us social distancing and some of those things. I think we're gonna be around for a while so that that kind of feeds into the training to that in doing that. But I like we still need to communicate. We still need toe work together and everybody remember that the end goal is the same. It's ah to make money and to be safe doing it.
[00:33:03] spk_1: So some of these organizations now that are actually doing some events where they're doing social distancing inside of them. So let's say, for instance, previously they had 300 people there. Now there, let's say, for instance, hypothetically, they're limiting them to 100. And, of course, with the correct social distancing, Do you think that's something that we should continue to see or something that we should even continue to practice? His organisation's
[00:33:25] spk_0: Yeah, I think I think it is. J is, you know, pending results of how this vaccine really works or not. And how how if that knocks this thing out, then sure, go back. Uh, you know, the big conferences and things like that, But I think until we know for sure, we're going to continue doing that probably.
[00:33:46] spk_1: Well, let's this going to be realistic at this particular point is we're doing this recording because if anybody ever hears this in the future, we're a time that will be released. Will be the last week of December. So we're recording it pretty much within the last week. It will be released at that particular portion and we're still seeing right now the first round of the vaccine. So we're seeing right now the fighter version is two shots. The moderate version is one shot. There is a conversation right now being had of Johnson and Johnson. I'm actually coming out with their version of the vaccine we are seeing at the moment, some people actually having some reactions to some of the vaccines. Now, based on some news stories that I was seeing today, it looks like they're saying that probably most people will have access to this. Come June. How do you look at this? In regards of the workforce, I've heard of some conferences even having conversations of having a conference with doing a shot involved, which I think is kind of weird thing. What's your opinion about?
[00:34:47] spk_0: Hi. About the vaccine or having conferences?
[00:34:50] spk_1: Well, both because if you have the chance of going to a conference that actually have the vaccine. Would you go to it if they said that that was part of the included of the cost.
[00:34:59] spk_0: Oh, I hadn't heard those yet.
[00:35:01] spk_1: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That's been making the sequence as probably the last two weeks when the vaccines to kept on being talked about, especially these conferences are being planned out for February March. And there's another one that I had seen already in June.
[00:35:13] spk_0: Interesting. Um, I don't know. I am on the fence about the vaccine right now. Okay. For me, it's not been tested as thoroughly is what we're used Thio. And that concerns me a little bit, so I don't know. I don't know if I have an answer for that right now.
[00:35:30] spk_1: Okay? Yeah. And I keep on wondering when when we start seeing these first, add on what those side effects are going to sound like. And I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but I'm just trying toe figure out if it's going to be the micro machine guy is kind of going full blast at the end of the ad.
[00:35:44] spk_0: Yeah, well, one I was like in those ads is Don't take this If you're allergic, Thio unless I take it. How do I know? Right, Right. Uh, and now the vaccine, the CDC and all their wisdom has said G, if you have a severe reaction to the first shot, don't take the second shot. Uh,
[00:36:06] spk_1: the sad part is that it has to actually be mentioned that za scary part of the equation.
[00:36:11] spk_0: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen with that with conferences and stuff in the future, But I'm not a fan of virtual conferences myself, so I may have to change that attitude. Who knows?
[00:36:25] spk_1: So, Brian, how are you looking at this right now? Are you planning on retiring anytime in the near future? You still got several years more to go? What are you thinking?
[00:36:33] spk_0: I've got several years ago. I'm 58. 62 would be nice, but probably not realistically. So I'm probably in for another eight or nine years anyway.
[00:36:44] spk_1: So when you look back for the when you're looking over the next eight or nine years, what do you want? Your legacy to be built around.
[00:36:52] spk_0: Okay. Oh, boy. Um hi. Could I leave, Leave anything. It's that we've eliminated of some of the silly bureaucracy and safety, Um, and that, you know, in my company and maybe overall, but also that I have I'd like to be known for having stimulated critical thinking that I think missing a lot of times and just the person who did the right thing for the right reasons and wasn't afraid toe to do that regardless of what it made me
[00:37:35] spk_1: at any cost.
[00:37:38] spk_0: Yeah, I think so.
[00:37:39] spk_1: Okay. Well, Brent, I do appreciate you coming on to the show today. If people want to know more about you and what you're doing work and they find you
[00:37:46] spk_0: linked to him, linked in or Facebook. Probably the easiest, easiest way to find me.
[00:37:53] spk_1: Well, this will bring another episode of the J. Allen show to an end. Thank you for hanging out with us today with this conversation with Brent Charleston. A lot of inside knowledge that gentleman has, as he discussed it here today. And we went further and further down the rabbit hole. Anyways, I hope that you enjoyed everything going on here today on this show. I hope you're looking forward to the changes of 2021. We're sure glad that you came out to hang out with us today because that's always cool when you do so. You are definitely the most important part of safety FM, and that is the listener. By the way, if you've not checked out our service Safety FM Plus, we would love for you to come out and do so. Right now we have a show running exclusively on the system known as around the safety pod. It discusses what exactly is going on inside of the world of safety from every podcast perspective, or at least a lot of them. At least that's how we look at it. If you want to Nome or information, you can go to safety FM plus dot com and take a listen to the first episode right there on the streaming platform. Anyways, we'll be looking forward to seeing you in the new year. Safety FM is the home of real safety talk. Thank you for always being the best part. Happy New Year, and we'll be back right around the corner with another episode of the J. Allen Show. Goodbye for now. Okay. Oh, want more of the J. Allen Show Built You. Safety FM dot com. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the host and its guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company. Examples of analysis discussed within this podcast are only examples. They should not
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